Posted by: sarge945
« on: 12. July 2022, 23:27:57 »Yes. Funny how that works
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 12. July 2022, 16:27:16 »Lots of things can be made better when you have infinite time and budget.Honestly, I feel like the whole character creation sequence could have been made significantly better if they just gave you 3 different station missions
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 12. July 2022, 14:57:18 »Honestly, I feel like the whole character creation sequence could have been made significantly better if they just gave you 3 different station missions - one for each service branch - rather than the same layout every time. It's a small thing but would have helped a lot with immersion on repeat playthroughs and made each station feel different.
I like the shuttle bay room idea, it is definitely less clunky than running the map for a second or so. For an immersive start, it might be reasonable to add some sort of "depart" terminal in the area that takes you to Blackadder station and starts alternate start, OR you can do the 3 career choices as normal. This would let the player effectively decide if they want to do the alternate start or not on a given playthrough at the time, rather than having to explicitly decide to install or remove the mod beforehand.
I like the shuttle bay room idea, it is definitely less clunky than running the map for a second or so. For an immersive start, it might be reasonable to add some sort of "depart" terminal in the area that takes you to Blackadder station and starts alternate start, OR you can do the 3 career choices as normal. This would let the player effectively decide if they want to do the alternate start or not on a given playthrough at the time, rather than having to explicitly decide to install or remove the mod beforehand.
Posted by: icemann
« on: 19. May 2022, 06:32:47 »See if anything I'd have preferred to have each of the training bits to be mini missions of say 10 minutes each (like the training mission competition we attempted here several years ago). More content rather than less preferred for me. That said if it was made an option somewhere (like a pop up on starting a new game asking if you wanted to skip that section) then cool.
Posted by: RoSoDude
« on: 19. March 2022, 21:38:46 »Hmm, I could move the tripwire so the player hits it while moving through the door out of the initial shuttle bay. I don't know if that's better than just skipping after a split second, curious for different opinions on that.
As for an extra psi amp, that would kinda defeat the point I think. I like that in Alternate Start you really have to scrounge for equipment in the beginning. Once you get to Med/Sci 2 you have access to a psi amp so you just need to find a way past the recharger room turrets (you can just run past them if you know the sightlines) and you're good to go.
As for an extra psi amp, that would kinda defeat the point I think. I like that in Alternate Start you really have to scrounge for equipment in the beginning. Once you get to Med/Sci 2 you have access to a psi amp so you just need to find a way past the recharger room turrets (you can just run past them if you know the sightlines) and you're good to go.
Posted by: Bratmanntoffel
« on: 19. March 2022, 19:18:54 »Another awesome mod.
One question though. Is it possible to extend the in-game starting shuttle scene on station.mis just a bit so that it doesn't abruptly gets cut off?
Well, in a perfect world making the player unable to move for the scene would make sense too, if thats possible at all.. With all that we could imagine starting with the shuttle.
Alternatively if thats possible to let the player watch the shuttle and move in the hangar but maybe put the activator/tripwire when opening the door/going through? I know this might be much but it could help with immersion..
Also just maybe you might consider giving the player a psi-amp if possible, since you removed the first one in Med/Sci in your amazing SS2-RSD mod? Can be harsh to try Psi without one until the next one in Med/Sci2(?).
One question though. Is it possible to extend the in-game starting shuttle scene on station.mis just a bit so that it doesn't abruptly gets cut off?
Well, in a perfect world making the player unable to move for the scene would make sense too, if thats possible at all.. With all that we could imagine starting with the shuttle.
Alternatively if thats possible to let the player watch the shuttle and move in the hangar but maybe put the activator/tripwire when opening the door/going through? I know this might be much but it could help with immersion..
Also just maybe you might consider giving the player a psi-amp if possible, since you removed the first one in Med/Sci in your amazing SS2-RSD mod? Can be harsh to try Psi without one until the next one in Med/Sci2(?).
Posted by: RoSoDude
« on: 28. February 2021, 16:20:17 »How strange, it's as if you can read my mind.. i was coming up requesting for exactly such mod for weeks, even made screenshots of the mission summary screens to suggest using them as 2D-replacement for the 3D-character generation.. The 3D character-generation of ss2 was always a huge immersion breaking point for me (similar to the Qbr-devices).
thank you, thank you
it would be cool if there was a 2D-character generation using an interface graphically based on the mission summary screens..
edit: oh. i've expected the earth level to be skipped too.. it would be cool to choose the skills via 2D-menu, and be immediately thrown right into the game..
The main purpose was to give more flexibility in your starting choices, but I've heard several players say similar things about the character creation sequence feeling out of place, so I'm happy I can offer some value to you there. Personally I've always liked choosing mission postings to decide my character attributes, but saw value in a mod like this anyway for returning players.
I'm quite limited in what I can change about the game's opening. The first map that the game loads has to be earth.mis, and I learned that I couldn't even fully skip station.mis without irreparably breaking the user interface or the player's inventory in some way (depending on how I configured it, on loading MedSci I could have no UI, no available inventory squares, or a working inventory but no ability to pick up nanites/cyber modules/keycards/logs). Hence why the mod has to load station.mis for a split second before moving on. Designing a new interface that manages character creation (such as selecting careers and missions or skills and starting items) is out of the question as far as my abilities are concerned.
As for the rest of the "feedback" in this thread: LOL
Posted by: Kolya
« on: 28. February 2021, 15:28:55 »haha, valid point.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 28. February 2021, 15:13:53 »a mod that makes me skip the macarena bot is not making it to my mod list.
Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 28. February 2021, 14:59:59 »I think the career selection was a good idea to immersively role play your career, but the execution falls woefully short and ends up being way more cumbersome and confusing than a skill tree.
What it amounts to is being dropped 3 times into the same(ish) corridor and then going through a door, upon which you are still presented with an interface describing anything interesting that may have happened. How is it role play if you can't play your career missions? And it never feels like a year had passed. It's just an annoyingly repetitive dungeon you have to run through to get to the real game.
^this
+ the earth & space station level never occurred to me as especially believable.. they are way too gamey, there is a huge gap between them & the realism / immersion of the von braun
Posted by: Kolya
« on: 28. February 2021, 11:32:33 »I didn't criticize the nostalgia in the least, only the form. If you can write, you can use punctuation. There is no additional barrier to that.
Of course I can imagine going on the training missions. I could also read a sci-fi book and not play a game at all. We are talking about role playing in a video game though. And that means to interactively engage in the actions in a visually presented game-world, as a character in that world.
Imagination still plays a large role, in filling all those gaps and leaps of logic in the game world. But reading a description text and imagining what happened is not playing to the strength of the medium at least and definitely contradictory to the way you role play 99% of this game.
Now let's talk about your definition of modding: You seem to think that any mod, that deviates from the intentions of the original game developers is ludicrous. We have many mods here that go beyond this and I don't see why they shouldn't. It is a 22 years old game. Game design has developed since 1999. And people may just want a change. You don't have to play it.
Of course I can imagine going on the training missions. I could also read a sci-fi book and not play a game at all. We are talking about role playing in a video game though. And that means to interactively engage in the actions in a visually presented game-world, as a character in that world.
Imagination still plays a large role, in filling all those gaps and leaps of logic in the game world. But reading a description text and imagining what happened is not playing to the strength of the medium at least and definitely contradictory to the way you role play 99% of this game.
Now let's talk about your definition of modding: You seem to think that any mod, that deviates from the intentions of the original game developers is ludicrous. We have many mods here that go beyond this and I don't see why they shouldn't. It is a 22 years old game. Game design has developed since 1999. And people may just want a change. You don't have to play it.
Posted by: doppel1911
« on: 28. February 2021, 05:15:13 »I realize you posted that from a phone, but even then it's not too hard, to add punctuation marks and paragraphs. It's basic courtesy not making us wade through your stream of conscious less.
To answer your question: role playing in this context means that you actually engage in the actions within the game-world, instead of reading a skill tree or a summary of what happened.
The character creation in SS2 is split in that regard. You role-play the decisions but not the training years.
What a way to introduce someone dealing with a technological barrier to this community. The guy is clearly new to this, cut him some slack. How would you feel if your older relative found a community dedicated to a hobby from his past and was treated like a nuisance simply for expressing his nostalgia?
Also, your definition doesn't make any sense. Role playing is simply the act of assuming a different role. You can always just imagine going on the training missions in your head, like they do in D&D - and D&D is clearly more mechanically complicated of a ruleset than SS2, so you can't say it's just make believe. I mean, try figuring out THAC0!
Anyway, I was linked here from planetdeusex.ru (that's the biggest and only russian-speaking deus ex forum in the known universe FYI) and I have to respectfully disagree with the positive feedback in this thread. For one, the devs clearly intended for there to be 3 distinct classes with their own training paths, so thinking that one knows better than venerable game designer is a little ludicrous. No offence, I appreciate the effort you put into this work, I just think it was misplaced. And the training descriptions are very indulgent and completely clash with the tone of the vanilla game. Like, a Blackadder reference in a sci-fi horror game? Sorry Rorodude I don't mean to insult your writing but I would not take the game seriously had I read these briefings during my first playthrough.
Listen, I want to be constructive about this because I am not just trying to shit on your work. I think you should continue trying! Look for the kickass SCP mod for how to implement changes that are authentic to the original design philosophy. And if you want me to, I can rewrite the briefings to at least match the tone of the originals. I have been writing Thief fanfiction for a few years now so I know what I'm talking about. Just let me know man; no hard feelings.
Posted by: Kolya
« on: 28. February 2021, 02:29:38 »I realize you posted that from a phone, but even then it's not too hard, to add punctuation marks and paragraphs. It's basic courtesy not making us wade through your stream of conscious less.
To answer your question: role playing in this context means that you actually engage in the actions within the game-world, instead of reading a skill tree or a summary of what happened.
The character creation in SS2 is split in that regard. You role-play the decisions but not the training years.
To answer your question: role playing in this context means that you actually engage in the actions within the game-world, instead of reading a skill tree or a summary of what happened.
The character creation in SS2 is split in that regard. You role-play the decisions but not the training years.
Posted by: AgnosticGnostic
« on: 28. February 2021, 00:55:00 »what does roleplaying even mean in this context i thought that was sex stuff sorry i don't know the lingo also cool hack I have been looking for something like this since the first time i played this game almost 20 years ago now never knew people played this game still even guys the same age i was when i did originally still remember how terrifying the first scene with the hybrid chasing a woman was before graphics got so real almost realer than real as they say still knowing an entire fan club of dudes exists for this game makes me feel goddamn old haha i am 53 granted but still keep up the great work love the Blackadder reference though maybe that would have worked better back in 1998 haha the 'rosodude' must be an old fart like me haha cheers
Posted by: Kolya
« on: 27. February 2021, 23:51:20 »I think the career selection was a good idea to immersively role play your career, but the execution falls woefully short and ends up being way more cumbersome and confusing than a skill tree.
What it amounts to is being dropped 3 times into the same(ish) corridor and then going through a door, upon which you are still presented with an interface describing anything interesting that may have happened. How is it role play if you can't play your career missions? And it never feels like a year had passed. It's just an annoyingly repetitive dungeon you have to run through to get to the real game.
What it amounts to is being dropped 3 times into the same(ish) corridor and then going through a door, upon which you are still presented with an interface describing anything interesting that may have happened. How is it role play if you can't play your career missions? And it never feels like a year had passed. It's just an annoyingly repetitive dungeon you have to run through to get to the real game.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 27. February 2021, 23:13:44 »I would very much like to ask you how having the player interactively role-play their career leading up to the Von Braun is LESS immersive than lazily shoving a skill selection screen in the player's face, but I fear that knowing would be worse for my sanity than not knowing.The 3D character-generation of ss2 was always a huge immersion breaking point for me (similar to the Qbr-devices).
Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 27. February 2021, 16:55:47 »How strange, it's as if you can read my mind.. i was coming up requesting for exactly such mod for weeks, even made screenshots of the mission summary screens to suggest using them as 2D-replacement for the 3D-character generation.. The 3D character-generation of ss2 was always a huge immersion breaking point for me (similar to the Qbr-devices).
thank you, thank you
it would be cool if there was a 2D-character generation using an interface graphically based on the mission summary screens..
edit: oh. i've expected the earth level to be skipped too.. it would be cool to choose the skills via 2D-menu, and be immediately thrown right into the game..
thank you, thank you
it would be cool if there was a 2D-character generation using an interface graphically based on the mission summary screens..
edit: oh. i've expected the earth level to be skipped too.. it would be cool to choose the skills via 2D-menu, and be immediately thrown right into the game..
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 24. February 2021, 00:43:35 »I wonder if there is any value to having a "pick a starter item" section of character creation, with choices for a maintenance tool, psi amp, repair tool (maybe a bit op) etc.
Posted by: RoSoDude
« on: 23. February 2021, 14:11:59 »The career choice is just flavor (since I can't remove it from earth.mis outside of just moving one of the triggers to the earlier hallway, which still means one of them shows up in the summary screen); I didn't intend for it to affect gameplay. No starting stats, skills, powers, or starting equipment -- you truly start from scratch.
The reason I went with the lowest number of CMs possible for any class is that I didn't want to make the mod start objectively better than any vanilla start. If the mod lets you make the exact same skill choices as that Navy route but with some modules left over, it's almost a no-brainer to go for the modded start over it every time. In actuality the modded start with the same skill choices (Default Strength 2 + Hack/Repair/Modify -> Maintenance -> Research) is slightly worse, as you don't get a free Maint tool in your starting inventory. Instead, I want this to be something where people exercise some creativity and make early character builds that were previously impossible. Rush Standard and Repair, or go all in on Hack + CYB, or focus purely on STR/END/AGI, etc.
If someone disagrees with my thought process, it's easy to tweak the cyber module counts in sq_scripts\rsdAlternateStart.nut
The reason I went with the lowest number of CMs possible for any class is that I didn't want to make the mod start objectively better than any vanilla start. If the mod lets you make the exact same skill choices as that Navy route but with some modules left over, it's almost a no-brainer to go for the modded start over it every time. In actuality the modded start with the same skill choices (Default Strength 2 + Hack/Repair/Modify -> Maintenance -> Research) is slightly worse, as you don't get a free Maint tool in your starting inventory. Instead, I want this to be something where people exercise some creativity and make early character builds that were previously impossible. Rush Standard and Repair, or go all in on Hack + CYB, or focus purely on STR/END/AGI, etc.
If someone disagrees with my thought process, it's easy to tweak the cyber module counts in sq_scripts\rsdAlternateStart.nut
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 23. February 2021, 13:51:11 »Wouldn't it make more sense to give CMs equivalent to the average CM value for the service the player chose? Also, does this still give the service-specific starting equipment?
Posted by: RoSoDude
« on: 23. February 2021, 05:34:21 »°DML°string
System Shock 2 - Alternate Start v1.00
by RoSoDude https://rosodudemods.wordpress.com/
This mod removes the character creation sequence from the game, instead starting the player with a blank slate and some cyber modules to spend for maximum character building flexibility. The amount of cyber modules is equal to the value of the lowest possible start (i.e. Navy: UNN Lucille -> UNN Pierce -> Marie-Curie Facility) on the chosen game difficulty. Each UNN military career comes with a unique mission summary that recounts how you spent the previous 3 years of your assignment. This mod is probably not recommended for first-time players.
Compatible with vanilla, SCP Beta 4, and probably every overhaul mod, but load above SS2-RSD if used together. Unavoidably overwrites some text with SCP edits. The Orbital Space Station map is briefly loaded before moving on to the Von Braun. Requires SS2 v2.48 patch or above.
Credits:
Lithium Flower for new character creation text
System Shock 2 - Alternate Start v1.00
by RoSoDude https://rosodudemods.wordpress.com/
This mod removes the character creation sequence from the game, instead starting the player with a blank slate and some cyber modules to spend for maximum character building flexibility. The amount of cyber modules is equal to the value of the lowest possible start (i.e. Navy: UNN Lucille -> UNN Pierce -> Marie-Curie Facility) on the chosen game difficulty. Each UNN military career comes with a unique mission summary that recounts how you spent the previous 3 years of your assignment. This mod is probably not recommended for first-time players.
Compatible with vanilla, SCP Beta 4, and probably every overhaul mod, but load above SS2-RSD if used together. Unavoidably overwrites some text with SCP edits. The Orbital Space Station map is briefly loaded before moving on to the Von Braun. Requires SS2 v2.48 patch or above.
Credits:
Lithium Flower for new character creation text
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