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Topic Summary

Posted by: Toaste
« on: 26. March 2024, 16:40:32 »

GawainIt was completely opposite for me. Ambiences were as good as in SS2, suit voice reminded me of Crysis which shared the same engine with Prey, as well as the neuromod abilities which were straight up copied from maximum strength/speed/early concept of invisibiilty nanosuit modes. As for the songs, Semi Sacred Geometry stuck in my head long after completion, as well as Realization song from Mooncrash.

I like Mick Gordon's sound in general back from NFS World and Shootmania Storm OST, which shown his potential in general composing works. I've never played DOOM remakes but heard ost and it was fine.

part starting from 2 minute is my favorite, as well as the rest of neuromod division.



Posted by: Join2
« on: 25. March 2024, 16:29:41 »

I didn't like Prey's sound design. Specially the suit voice is really bad. I also didn't like most of the songs. The music is too aggressive and didn't really fit the mood/pace I had when playing.

WARNING. VITAL SIGNS CRITICAL.

The sound design is generally fine but it for sure has bad stand-outs. That and the sound cues when spotted by an enemy or jumped by a mimic, as well as operator robot deployment. Just awful.

Not sure what you mean by aggressive music though lol. There is hardly any noticeable music at all, and when it is there it is aggressively bland. That is a massive downer for me. Mick Gordon is absurdly overrated, like most game composers these days.

Like most modern games, it doesn't really do anything well broadly-speaking except art direction and graphics. Gameplay is lame. Story is lame. Sound design generally fine but ruined by reoccurring annoyances. Music hardly even present, and bland. Setting and premise...nope it's lame. Trying to be original but all the good sci-fi ideas have been taken at this point, so this is what you get I suppose. Uninteresting not-so-scary typhon, it was all just a simulation within a simulation, and lesbians feel love too didn't you know? Sometimes it is best to stick to tradition.  Talos 1 itself is the most interesting thing in the game, but didn't make me love it like some other media has for their respective fiction.
Posted by: Gawain
« on: 25. March 2024, 11:04:33 »

I didn't like Prey's sound design. Specially the suit voice is really bad. I also didn't like most of the songs. The music is too aggressive and didn't really fit the mood/pace I had when playing.
Posted by: Join2
« on: 24. March 2024, 19:42:39 »

I know you're posting memes, but that is essentialy the difference. System Shock 2 is an intelligently-designed game and Prey a somewhat casual mass market (past a point at least). But like Bioshock, fools people into thinking it is more than it is if you have the inability to look past the surface. Of course it's still an admirable attempt and far better than Bioshock though.

Time will tell. We won't be talking about this game in ten or twenty years. System Shock 2 will still be very much relevant.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 24. March 2024, 15:50:15 »

Really makes you think
Posted by: Toaste
« on: 24. March 2024, 13:28:44 »

Join2
Short-sighted.
Having to think
a game of smarts
nuanced and substantial
THINK. You really have to be a bit dim to not see the vast superiority

:thinking:





:happyjoy:




:tearsofjoy:
Posted by: Join2
« on: 23. March 2024, 16:54:12 »

Have no problem with maxing out all abilities in one playthrough, I'm glad game values my time and does not drag down progression for the second playthrough. System Shock 2 did the same thing on normal difficulty.

Short-sighted. Nothing is "dragged down". System Shock 2 simply offers twice the number of possible upgrades over Prey and blocks off around half (even on normal you can't get them all, but perhaps too many yeah). The end result is a similar number of total upgrades unlocked across a playthrough as Prey. It is better design in every way. More choice. Having to think and weigh all those choices. Vastly different builds possible from playthrough to playthrough, player to player. Replayability increased tenfold. You can't make a character that is peak efficiency in every single scenario. The only way Prey is better in these regards is the unlockable psi powers are more interesting and user friendly...except for when they aren't as Kinetic blast is so OP it makes it all redundant. System Shock 2's systems are also executed far better in that you can't get absurdly OP by comparison, the worst being perhaps the assault rifle (which requires heavy investment and the downside of using the same ammo as pistol). I have much praise in that every unbalanced choice otherwise that everyone complains about is a near-useless choice. Far better as it doesn't break the fucking game, and has merit of its own for being trap choices which is a game of smarts to identify and avoid. Also, sets up mods to easily fix it, technical roadblocks aside.

If you don't believe me on that total count, every skill & attribute tree has 5 possible branches with 6 tiers each. Psi powers there's like 36 or something choices. Throw on all the OS upgrades for good measure. Prey's trees look comparable upon a glance, but they're not. Most don't have second tiers, none go over tier 3. There's like 7 powers. Chipsets are a unique case but it never provokes much thought given no brainer ones for any build that further cut your choices e.g ones that improve Arx propulsion jet, which is good for exploration, combat, sneaking, fleeing, platforming, the guts and exterior, not to mention simply fun over +10% wrench damage type choices. Arx propulsion jet upgrades should have been part of a separate, new system.
Oh, and the fact that there is a stealth/combat focus divide that system shock 2 doesn't suffer from further cuts relevant choices too. As a combat player, none of the stealth shit has any relevance, and sure you could argue to play stealth next time, two unique playthroughs at least, but absolutely no thank you. Not the kind of stealth gameplay I consider good, and the game itself isn't that good. Ultimately, 2 playthroughs is all you're getting at best (if you have standards I suppose). System Shock 2 I am not stopping playing every few years (with diminishing returns, but mods to help) until I die. Still the King of Immersive Sims. Nearly everything about it is more nuanced and substantial.

One more thing, if chipsets are to be included in a total count, then so should SS2 implants. Principally the same.

In summary: In prey, absolutely every combat build is the same as the last playthrough or next player. The same pathetic three guns, the same boring upgrades, near enough. Stealth it's the same case. The only value left is the the order you choose them in. In SS2 there is an infinite number of unique builds possible. The total number of times you bring up the interface to invest (progression rate) is approximately the same regardless, maybe -25% at worst. In Shock 2, you can't break the game effortlessly, and can't make a character of optimal efficiency for every scenario. You have to plan and THINK. You really have to be a bit dim to not see the vast superiority of Shock 2's systems.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 23. March 2024, 09:01:29 »

and that's why you play on hard.
Posted by: Toaste
« on: 23. March 2024, 08:37:25 »

Have no problem with maxing out all abilities in one playthrough, I'm glad game values my time and does not drag down progression for the second playthrough. System Shock 2 did the same thing on normal difficulty.
Posted by: icemann
« on: 18. March 2024, 15:23:26 »

For me the choice in where to spend your neuromods could have been better. By the 3/4 mark your pretty much maxed out if you've been fabricating neuromods, with only a few non important left over things to spend it on. Could have used a much more diverse talent tree. Mooncrash did that better imo, though it was class based and in much shorter gameplay bursts.

New Game+ specific content would have been good to see as well (eg new missions and paths to take, new enemy types etc).
Posted by: Jimbo
« on: 18. March 2024, 14:43:13 »

I got so hyped when the military was coming, thought I'd get assault rifles and soldier enemies. Nope. Floaty robots. Words cannot describe how lame that was.
Posted by: JDoran
« on: 18. March 2024, 14:28:20 »

While I still liked Prey overall, I also thought that its world felt too shiny and sterile (which can be read as corporate) and the characters quite shallow and cold fish-like. That was not the case with System Shock 1 and 2. Not even with any of the Bioshocks. Prey lacked in humanity.

Yes, as someone else said, when you meet the surviving humans, including Chief Elazar, and they stand around doing nothing, facing a gang of enemies on the other side of the warehouse door, their lack of speech and action makes you feel nothing for them. And how is that some characters, such as Dr. Igwe, and Mikhaila, manage to move around unharmed, when the space-station is teeming with deadly enemies. It just adds to the feeling that the human NPCs are just soulless characters in a video game, rather than real, living breathing people. In that respect, Prey would have been better if there were no living human beings on the station. Of course, better still would have been to write the character's dialogue to be more emotional and realistic, and to have the characters poses and movements suggest terror and near panic.
Posted by: JDoran
« on: 18. March 2024, 14:04:37 »

I think Prey is mostly great, but it could be better. It does a lot that's better than System Shock 2, but Prey has it's faults, the biggest probably being that the last third of the game really goes downhill, both enjoyment and and discovery-wise, much worse than how System Shock 2's final levels  do. And Prey's enemies don't feel anywhere as dangerous or unnerving as SS2's enemies. And the psionic powers in Prey can feel too 'convenient', in a "Oh look, that specific enemy that has x ability, well here's a defense power that seems custom designed to deal with that enemy", making it feel like an authored game rather than a real-life/nightmarish experience.

Prey has the building blocks of a superb, genre-defining game, with the great game engine, the fun and varied game-mechanics, and the excellently designed levels/environments. But it does really lack in some areas. For example, the game's pre-release videos showed the fantastic way you (your player character) could (using an alien ability) change your physical form to a coffee mug, which looked intriguing. And in the released game you can indeed assume the shape of a coffee mug, and other things. But I only ever used this ability to reduce my size so I could get through small gaps, I never used it for anything else. Maybe it can be used to hide you in plain sight, so nearby enemies don't recognize you and so won't attack you, but I don't know because I just attacked and killed any nearby enemies, as by the time I got this shape-shifter ability, I already possessed enough weaponry, ammunition, and character-upgrades to make weapon combat a realistic response to nearby enemies.

I could have upgraded the shape-shifter ability so that I could imitate a turret gun or an operator, and presumably then used the turret gun/operator's in-built weapon to shoot the enemies, but by then you can have the shotgun/hand-gun fully upgraded, plus the combat focus fully upgraded, meaning that you can take on any non-projectile based enemies, and even some projectile-based enemies, with reasonable confidence. So it seems like Prey's developers thought up this great shape-shifting ability, and programmed it into the game, but then couldn't come up with interesting or game-changing ways to use the ability. And that's a shame, as it's the sort of ability that is fun to use, so should surely be of much more use in the game.

I do really like Prey, and will no doubt play through it again, but System Shock 2 is very much my preferred game. Aside from anything else, playing SS2 feels much more immersive, much more like I am actually in that game (despite, or maybe because of, SS2 feeling somehow more clunky), and more unique than Prey. System Shock 2 would still be in my top ten games ever, but not Prey. Though Prey might be in my top twenty-five, and probably in my top fifty.

I really do wish that Prey had received a sequel (Mooncrash is great, but I mean a sequel that plays like the original game, not a rogue-like like Mooncrash), as a sequel could have corrected he original's few flaws, and built upon it's strengths to become a superb game.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 18. March 2024, 10:42:31 »

Prey is pretty good. I just wish it was a little better.
Posted by: icemann
« on: 18. March 2024, 07:21:19 »

I absolutely loved Prey. A game I return to every few years. The most SS2-like game out there.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 17. March 2024, 15:01:51 »

Yeah. The world in Prey feels like an artificial simulation designed to assess your moral decision making rather than feeling like a real station with real people in it.
Posted by: fox
« on: 16. March 2024, 13:32:39 »

While I still liked Prey overall, I also thought that its world felt too shiny and sterile (which can be read as corporate) and the characters quite shallow and cold fish-like. That was not the case with System Shock 1 and 2. Not even with any of the Bioshocks. Prey lacked in humanity.
Posted by: Toaste
« on: 16. March 2024, 12:03:50 »

bombumThis has to be bait.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 15. March 2024, 17:03:01 »

I agree. The overall style and presentations of Prey feels like what transtar would make as a documentary for the events of the game. It can't be too obviously corporate because it needs to have an air of legitimacy, but can't be too negative because they have to protect their brand image. Since the climax reveals that you're in a transtar simulation of itself, I'm not sure if this is intentional or not. Either way I could make a pretentious 4 hour YouTube video essay about it and rake in the views.

System Shock deals with greed, capitalism, and what it means to be human. The Many in SS2 are basically a critique of communism and utilitarianism that presents the positives and negatives of the philosophy, and how self-serving and selfish TriOp staff are very quickly manipulated and turned by their own nature, dooming themselves. Korenchkin practically begs the many to transform him because he wants to be powerful. Meanwhile the Typhon stand for nothing and aren't a comment on anything, they are essentially just a heartless organism with no sense of empathy. The only politics we get from "woke" Prey is a very milquetoast critique of capitalism, as opposed to the very in-depth critique of corporate influence we see in the "based and red pilled" System Shock.

But I guess Prey must be some propaganda-filled progressive mind-controlling mouthpiece because it has lesbian characters in it.
Posted by: bombum
« on: 14. March 2024, 17:13:00 »

Yeah system shock is way more political. Prey almost feels corporate in its vibe sometimes. System shock makes fun of triop at every turn, they're obviously evil and stupid, while prey plays transtar entirely straight. There's so much branding in the flavor text
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 14. March 2024, 05:02:46 »

Dude what. Prey expanded on SS2's mechanics in almost every way. How on earth do you figured it was compromised?

The problem with Prey isn't the mechanics, it's the way resources are distributed and how it's generous design completely compromises it's mechanics.

The start of Prey is quite good. Until the end of psychotronics it's a very well balanced successor to system shock 2. But the game completely falls apart when you realize you can completely heal yourself by drinking at water fountains, bypass all the skill checks using a combination of mimic matter and the nerf gun, after doing a minor quest you can print as many neuromods as you'd ever want, and generally the game is so overflowing with resources that any sort of resource management or strategy completely dissolves. You can basically play it like a mindless shooter and still win. Even the nightmare barely poses a threat once you reach the mid point.

This is all irrespective of the fact that the second half of Prey is basically a series of linear objectives with no alternate approaches, which pretty much disqualifies it from being an immersive sim already.

Prey is a game that's very good on paper, with many options for agency and lots of alternate approaches to problems, but it completely destroys itself through it's balance and resource distribution.

SS2 has the same resource abundance problem but it's far, far more pronounced in prey, to the point where I've seen people who aren't really gamers end up with 40+ medkits in their inventory on the hardest difficulty through normal play. It's ridiculous.

Prey is not structurally compromised the way Bioshock is, and I think it's pretty good despite my criticism, but I can totally understand why people don't like it, given how often it provides player agency only to make that same agency pointless through extreme overabundance.

Also, why all this dumb bullshit about Prey being feminized or whatever? If Prey, a game with no references to modern politics and no progressive ideas despite being released in 2017, is somehow degenerate and woke, then literally everything is. I guess to these people not having enough guns is part of a leftist conspiracy to feminise our youth or something. I'm pretty conservative but that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard and Join2 needs to stop posting because he's making genuine criticism of this game look stupid.
Posted by: notaavatar
« on: 09. March 2024, 15:58:59 »

it sounds like discussing putins election plan
Posted by: Join2
« on: 09. March 2024, 10:56:16 »

Honestly I think 1/2 the points here are ridiculous. It has nothing to do with women, pornography, family values, etc. This sounds like some russian shit.

 It is a question of the developers trying to push something that is supposed to make everyone feel the same exact way regardless of how the play so there is no discrepancy in the reviews. It is pure design politics, and the obsession of making it complete to a metric

Check your reading comprehension, wow. That was a seperate discussion. No one was saying there is any connection between porn or family values and the decline in game design/development. Though now that you mention it...lol. I kid.

And system shock 2 is a progressive game. They had a equal number of logs from men and women, strong female characters (in high level positions),

That's just being realistic. There has commonly been women in positions of power for decades.
That doesn't indicate LGS or the games' political leanings at all lol. Not that anyone said anything on the matter anyway???

Anyway, read again. You misinterpreted the entire past few pages discussion. Bioshock, Prey, degeneracy, the fall of game design, there was multiple concurrent topics. Do try to keep up.
Posted by: notaavatar
« on: 09. March 2024, 08:58:31 »

Honestly I think 1/2 the points here are ridiculous. It has nothing to do with women, pornography, family values, etc. This sounds like some russian shit.

 It is a question of the developers trying to push something that is supposed to make everyone feel the same exact way regardless of how the play so there is no discrepancy in the reviews. It is pure design politics, and the obsession of making it complete to a metric.

More then likely some high level bosses that developed fin-tech software or some boring lame utilitarian shit started getting hired at the game companies and instilled these supposed 'quality' policies. Of course what they are doing is simplifying stuff to make everything quantifiable on a design review. Like a IBM style review process on something that is supposed to be creative (not to mention they pioneer DLC with technologies used to enslave you to a certain printer).

And system shock 2 is a progressive game. They had a equal number of logs from men and women, strong female characters (in high level positions), a character that chose to identify, the Lance holosuit room (jiggalo). It seemed from the story that the women were the ones really trying to save the ship. It gets a A++ rating compared to something like Duke Nukem.

It is also quite degenerate with the bio horror and techno horror.

Not too sure if Join2 is too familiar with the hacker culture BTW. Its kind of got a hippy freedom vibe to it, unless your paid by a government organ.

when complex features and creative features try to get implemented with corpostiffs (ibm, fin tech, MBA engineers, etc) in any fields you get something like this

"blah blah blah WILL CAUSE US TO HEMORAGE MONEY"

They love saying hemorrhage. I have seen this time and time again, you get that one guy playing 'the game' basically trying to block anything that does not have a clear cut metric and is not considered easy and a 'sure thing' because it might 'lose money'. They totally eliminate creativity. Then if you have a half decent team, if you are fortunate enough for them to leave (usually their total job hoppers that don't mind transient living) then all sorts of crazy features that everyone knew are implementable grow like crazy and you get a rapid increase in technology that required some creative thinking, usually radically changes things.

It is truly amazing how big business has so much money but basically can't implement jack shit because of people and policies made by those people.
Posted by: Join2
« on: 07. March 2024, 04:38:34 »

demand join3

the join2 unit was... less than successful

You're coping hard. You're defeated I'm afraid.

Anyways, Mr. Imperceptive, there's hints from your post that your preferred playstyle is stealth, whereas mine is combat. In games that feature this freeform design truly (i.e not SS2), combat is always compromised to favor stealth. There is no other choice, as we need to be fair to the stealth player - not getting them forced-spotted through scripting, as one example. That is where a lot of these problems stem from, though definitely far from all. Stealth is about avoidance, so a stealth player as a result will miss more content on average than a combat player. This means resource economy also needs to scale to stealth. These full stealth/combat hybrid games never quite work in that regard. It should be one or the other, like Thief vs System Shock 2.
So anyway, I am saying all these truthful statements but because you appear to be a stealth player, you have no idea what I am talking about. And if you're not a stealth player, then you're incompetent. Yet I am defending it (and you) on these grounds when it's far more than this. It is otherwise compromised in typical AAA fashion to some extent. It does simply suffer from perhaps at times inadequate design direction regardless of anything else compared to the indisputable classics of the 90s. It is otherwise feminised to a degree. A sizable portion of the team were women. Not a bad thing if you're a chick or a feminine man. I am neither.

Deus Ex features many of these same problems as a playstyle hybrid game...but is a far better game regardless. Not tainted by modern standards, great writing, classic intelligent design principles guiding it far more (better RPG systems, no objective markers, actually has a soundtrack to speak of etc). Actually has weapon and enemy variety. Trusts, or hopes the player isn't dumb as rocks. Just needs a certain mod to fix general balancing, polish, retarded AI et al to solidify it as the competing King of Immersive Sims alongside SS2.
I most certainly agree with Raphael that SS2 is the best in its released state, though I have a huge amount of respect for his own Arx Fatalis, more so than Prey. It is simply more intelligent, uncompromising and cohesive. But again, mods fixed Prey for me, SS3 lives! so I am happy in this instance.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 07. March 2024, 04:35:52 »

demand join3

the join2 unit was... less than successful
Posted by: Join2
« on: 07. March 2024, 03:44:47 »

Only if you're playing at a low difficulty and spending hours farming resources, in which case who cares, a player like that has already decided to ruin their own fun. When playing normally, you have to be selective.

Simply false. I think your old age is catching up to you, or you were always a bit slow. There is no need to do any hours of farming. If you're not a dummy, you're always swimming in resources (past a certain point) and have a steady supply of neuromods, to the point of getting everything or close to everything in a single playthrough. And definitely everything relevant to your playstyle, that is guaranteed.

You can turn those off.

Their mere existence and the option to disable = compromise. Why do I need to explain this to you?

Also the game doesn't do a good job of aiding the player in a reasonable manner if they are turned off.

Good. Dumb feature, glad they sidelined it.

The very thing that would make the RPG systems follow the superior conventions of classic Immersive Sims and RPGs = Dumb?
The very thing that would prevent you easily investing into hordes of shotgun ammo or medkits  = dumb?

Proving yourself to be a bit of a game design dunce here.

You can turn on weapon degradation. There are negative status effects. You can turn on even more.

Poor execution, as I described. Needs mods such as RosoDude's, Prey For Death 2, and countless other rebalance mods that came out shortly after release given the very obvious need for them.

False. Enemies are common in side rooms.
Ambushes are pretty much by definition scripted.
Except when there's multiple mimics swarming you at once, which isn't rare.

It's all very tame and not at all like the classics. Partly because it is trying to be a stealth game and a combat game, which results in, once again, compromise. It definitely shows here.

Multiple mimics lol. It's like swatting flies. Dangerous stuff.

Telepaths, Technopaths, Poltergeists, and Weavers.

Everything dies with little resistance after a kinetic blast to stun then a shotgun to the face, or crouching and spamming the pistol utilizing the endless supply of ammo available. The mod I mentioned and others like it is the only thing that makes the game like the classics, where you need to utilize a wide variety of tools to succeed, not just spamming pistol/shotgun + kinetic blast, can't have everything in one playthrough, and actually need to think and strategize. Prey isn't as bad as Bioshock in this regard, but it is no classic. Too bad you're too dim to see it

The shortage of conventional weapons is deliberate and even a plot point. Prey wants you to think about ways to deal with enemies beyond just going Doomguy on them. Y'know, because it's an immersive sim. And even if you do want to go Doomguy, the four weapons do a perfectly good job of killing everything that gets in your way. If you want to get even more creative, that's what the Typhon powers are for.

Yeah, every other respectable Immersive Sim did that with inventory limitations, ammo counts and RPG restrictions, which is the smarter approach. Duh. Furthermore, minor plot details should never override rather primary game design concepts like...actually having weapon variety. There was nothing stopping them simply making subtle changes to the plot to accommodate. There was also nothing really stopping a little more variety regardless, what was the plot reasoning again? They have custom design to prevent breaking the glass or something like that right? That still doesn't mean there couldn't have been more weapon types with the same custom design. Sigh.
 
Lastly, prevent you from going doom guy...that would be ideal sure. But without fab limits, doesn't happen. As I described in the point above.

And the GLOO gun itself is an awesome tool that puts rope arrows to shame for enabling environmental exploration.

Right. Tool. It's a supportive secondary tool, not a primary. Sure, for the sake of fairness (because there's quite a few supporting tools) we'll include it. Now we're at 4 guns. Wow. Sure gives me incentive to try a new combat build next time like System Shock 2 or Deus Ex or Ultima Underworld or Fallout New Vegas or Arx Fatalis does.

Riiight, being able to explore the entire exterior of the entire freaking station, TO SCALE, including decompressed areas and expelled debris, and additional locations beyond the station, in a single level load, is pathetic, somehow.

I am not impressed by technical specifications and realism detailing alone, otherwise every modern game would be AWESOME. There needs to be some actual substantial game design. You know, like the classics.

Oof, the mask is finally coming off this mental case.

Yes, I am a bad person because I like manly things as opposed to feminine, which I dislike now being so pervasive in all my hobbies.
The mask is off for you I'm afraid - game design dunce and a sissy cuck lol.

Posted by: Xkilljoy98
« on: 07. March 2024, 03:40:47 »

ZylonBaneOn the subject of Prey, Mooncrash is a really cool example of a Roguelike and ImmSim mix, actually the only example i can think of.
Posted by: Xkilljoy98
« on: 07. March 2024, 03:35:58 »

Join2Those insults you threw weren't truthful at all, and were just insults and name calling, but I'm not going into this again

You can't just call anything you dislike "degeneracy", plus the kinda stuff you hate has always been around buddy :p
There never was an "old world" that didn't have stuff, it existed back then too

Here is a video on it if you'd like to know more:
https://youtu.be/cYJYzzT02MA?si=lwtMWVyCV4thMc2x

Tho, it is worth reminding that empires fall when their governments fail the people. It has nothing to do with Hedonism. Plus swearing never hurt anyone

Anyway let's move on

For the love god DO NOT add fuel to the fire....calm down please

Remember there is a person at the other end of each of these profiles
Posted by: Pacmikey
« on: 07. March 2024, 01:38:22 »

I'm bookmarking this, I am about to witness when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 07. March 2024, 01:21:22 »

You can get all upgrades in a single playthrough
Only if you're playing at a low difficulty and spending hours farming resources, in which case who cares, a player like that has already decided to ruin their own fun. When playing normally, you have to be selective.

Objective markers.
You can turn those off.

Removed fabrication license limits
Good. Dumb feature, glad they sidelined it.

weapon durability & negative status effects
You can turn on weapon degradation. There are negative status effects. You can turn on even more.

Enemies almost always are only ever present patrolling the center walkways, rarely in side rooms
False. Enemies are common in side rooms.

scripted ambushes
Ambushes are pretty much by definition scripted.

Aside from mimics, which are largely harmless.
Except when there's multiple mimics swarming you at once, which isn't rare.

there is no high tier enemy types
Telepaths, Technopaths, Poltergeists, and Weavers.

There's like three guns. Quite the downgrade from classic standards, don't you think?
The shortage of conventional weapons is deliberate and even a plot point. Prey wants you to think about ways to deal with enemies beyond just going Doomguy on them. Y'know, because it's an immersive sim. And even if you do want to go Doomguy, the four weapons do a perfectly good job of killing everything that gets in your way. If you want to get even more creative, that's what the Typhon powers are for.

And the GLOO gun itself is an awesome tool that puts rope arrows to shame for enabling environmental exploration.

the exterior of the station being similarly pathetic in design
Riiight, being able to explore the entire exterior of the entire freaking station, TO SCALE, including decompressed areas and expelled debris, and additional locations beyond the station, in a single level load, is pathetic, somehow.

pussified/soyboy/feminized design direction
Oof, the mask is finally coming off this mental case.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 07. March 2024, 00:45:05 »

yes. lets be jerks to all heart's content. but let us also have class.
Posted by: Join2
« on: 07. March 2024, 00:34:27 »

Yup, I edited. I have self-reflected and hopefully improved.

"it's all just calling the other person names."

Indeed it was. Though I think there is value in that - shaming. But shaming can be done more tactfully for sure.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 07. March 2024, 00:23:50 »

double checked, not much value was lost - apart from one bit that mentioned one should self-reflect and the reference to empires falling when hedonism starts it's all just calling the other person names.

it's perfectly possible to express absolute disgust without doing that - feel free to put whatever you think needs to be added to the discussion into your next post (I guess I could stitch it together myself from the deleted bits but it's been a long day).


and just to be perfectly clear - the posts weren't deleted because she reported them, they were deleted because certain level of decorum needs to be maintained. I'm very much pro free speech and anti censorship, but there has to be rules, else everyone just goes insane.
Posted by: Join2
« on: 07. March 2024, 00:15:35 »

Well, you removed my content that wasn't profane too. e.g empires in their final stages prior to collapse trended towards degeneracy.
But I concede without further protest. Profanity was  discouraged in the old world too, and for good reason. Even as small an infraction as mere use of language to express oneself is, it too counts. It also is a form of normalizing degeneracy, given how most of it is sexual or gross in nature.

Thanks for that. Hard for me to shake that one off. I grew up in the degenerate hellhole that is England where the "C word" is the most common profane word used, and every other sentence half the population speaks contains profanity. Looking at that place today it's almost impossible to believe it is responsible for the lightbulb, comprehension of gravity, steam locomotive, industrial revolution, world wide web, modern school system etc etc etc and an empire spanning a third of the globe.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 07. March 2024, 00:09:54 »

naah, let it flow. just no profanity, it's.. unsightly.
Posted by: Join2
« on: 07. March 2024, 00:00:43 »

Censoring truthful insults because they hurt someone's fragile feelings...if anything it should be pro-degeneracy talk that is censored and condemned. You know, like the old world would. Once again I am left disappointed in humanity!
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 06. March 2024, 23:02:19 »

ok, topic cleaned up. disliking things is fine, but no profanity everybody, would you kindly.
Posted by: Xkilljoy98
« on: 06. March 2024, 17:10:47 »

voodoo47I mean sure sex with someone is going to be better, I am just saying that it has a purpose in some cases, such as when one is in the mood and no one is around. So you could argue that it isn't the best option or that doing it all the time is a bit much, but bad in every scenario I disagree with.

Having some sort of outlet for sexual urges is good, better than leaving it pent up. Sex is a basic need like any other.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 06. March 2024, 17:04:29 »

you don't have to have a wing to be a realist. porn isn't good. just like mcdonald's, probably better than starving to death if there is nothing else, but good, no, definitely not.

and promoting these kinds of behaviors is foolish and destructive. whatever business you need to care of, do it in your bedroom, and don't take it outside. and, to keep it balanced, as long as you do that, no individual or institution should be allowed to have a say in that.

howgh.
Posted by: Xkilljoy98
« on: 06. March 2024, 16:54:19 »

PacmikeyWell agree to disagree as I am fine with it existing as opposed to not at all, but I will give you that exposure to something can sometimes make it harder to get excited, though still having a healthy outlet to view and process sexual feelings is important. Plus the past had plenty of ways to get or see sex so it isn't just a modern thing.

Also word of advise for this thread, often times arguing can make one feel worse than better : /
Posted by: Pacmikey
« on: 06. March 2024, 16:32:09 »

Porn isn’t bad either
It really is though. Humans are not meant to see so many naked people getting fucked, it does bad things to the brain. Same with just having easy access to such a stimulating thing, it burns the synapses too fast.

Even worse is porn that shows impossible stuff, cause then someone gets hooked on something that doesn't exist, and IRL people aren't as appetizing anymore.

I personally hate how sexualized everything is. Feels like I live in that world in that Black Mirror episode where if I close my eyes during porn ads it yells at me to open them.
Posted by: Xkilljoy98
« on: 06. March 2024, 16:03:55 »

Geez you really went on a rant huh? Can’t stop?

I ain’t about to read all that, I’ll just repeat what I said and say Bioshock is a good game and “degeneracy” isn’t actually a problem

Bioshock isn’t a game about dying an respawning and again 
you can tweak options but DO NOT insult others for simply liking it. You are biased against the game and cannot review it properly, that much is obvious. Easy isn't bad, some like it

Also “family values” all just a bullshit excuse to restrict people

Furry isn’t Zoophile, you’d know that if you did any fucking research

Porn isn’t bad either, I’m starting to think you’re some right winged conservative asshole, in which case I’d really call you a pos

In any case given the direction it’s take I’d rather this thread either close, or move on from politics and Bioshock
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 06. March 2024, 15:15:07 »

I'll just repeat what I have said the last couple of times we had this discussion - would pay serious money for BS/BS2 1999 edition.

take the core which is good, get rid of all the bs, release, profit.
Posted by: Join2
« on: 06. March 2024, 15:09:52 »

Back to Bioshock quickly, though that dumpster fire doesn't deserve all this attention: I am almost certain playing without vita chambers results in a crappy experience too, as the game is not designed around it. Probably is a massive quickload/save fest. Idk maybe they spawned more medkits if the chambers are disabled. Can't really speak further on the topic though. Haven't tried it, never will.
Posted by: Join2
« on: 06. March 2024, 14:40:05 »

so yeah, that kid who shot a school up and killed a bunch of other kids? probably would have been able to keep the lid on for longer without it. and grow up to be a fine serial killer, for example.

I...hadn't considered that. Good point.

As for porn history, it was all just far less accessible before. Especially for kids. Now everyone has it in their pocket at all times, zero restrictions (aside from the small number of responsible parents that apply childlocks). Kids shouldn't have that, that's absurd.
Remember, not just any porn too. All kinds. As degenerate as is possibly imaginable, the internet has it. Or so I hear.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 06. March 2024, 14:30:11 »

the way I see it, the internet only accelerates what already is there. so yeah, that kid who shot a school up and killed a bunch of other kids? probably would have been able to keep the lid on for longer without it. and grow up to be a fine serial killer, for example.

internet isn't evil. people are.


also porn is a few thousand years older than the internet, and nobody is going to stop it, ever. so good luck with that.
Posted by: Join2
« on: 06. March 2024, 14:17:15 »

4. It's also how you get crazed school shooters and other tragic outcomes. Most commonly at the heart of it is a kid seeing free love being spread out in abundance, just not to them. Look up every school shooter. Ugly or mediocre at best. In a more classy society it'd never happen. It's not right in their face every day.

This is just a brief overview. Degeneracy is bad all-around for society.

It's also important to add that porn is a big factor here. It is degenerate. That kid, feeling completely unlovable, full of raging hormones, goes home every day and jerks off to the indescribable majesty of a beautiful naked women...getting railed on the internet, in HD and full motion. So close he can almost taste it. He wants it bad. And he also more than anything wants to feel valued and loved. He knows he will never get it. Those same girls at school he wants probably bully him, call him gross. The superior specimen dudes fucking those girls so openly also bully him as a power move, all to impress the woman, whom is attracted to power. Not her fault, biology is a dark mistress. Most mentally well-rounded kids will survive, but throw some other factors on top such as abuse & neglect at home, and you have the recipe for a complete mental breakdown and some dead kids.

Porn needs to go, for the children at the very least. Internet bad. Modern western society is dumb as shit for letting things get this out of control.

And yeah, those zero tolerance bullying policies or whatever they have these days, bad. Bring back slut shaming, not a big deal it's bad behavior. Not like I'm calling for the Hijab. Acceptance for all? No, you hide your attraction to animals. Your actions have consequences. Children should not be seeing this behavior normalized. People should not be advertising their sexual kinks. Keep it under wraps. Have some modesty. You're allowed to have such orientation arguably, but the world does not need to know.

Here is how furry degeneracy in particular is harmful:

Stupid kid brain loaded on hormones: "wait, fucking animals is an option? I never once thought of that. AND it's considered normal".

In walks scruffy the family dog...

Sigh. Why do I even need to type this shit, goddamn clown world. NOW I need an internet detox. goddamn.
Posted by: Join2
« on: 06. March 2024, 11:38:06 »

You've heard me say games went to shit in the 2000s, and it's actually LGS alumni in particular whom I blame as the very core influence of that, alongside Microsoft. Between the Xbox (Shamus Blackley), Bioshock (Irrational), Zynga (Neurath), Tomb Raider: Legend (Doug Church), Invisible War (Spector & Smith), that's quite the swarm of shit! With a huge impact. They really unleashed hell, and it was very intentional. Video games were not at all that dumb in the 90s. the complete opposite rather, even the vast majority big name console games had a strong degree of design intelligence and demand of the player. But it wasn't just them. Other PC developers are to blame. Halo was by Bungie (PC dev). Doom 3 by id. Gears of War by EPIC. Half-Life 2 by valve. all complete trash by 90s standards. There had to have been back stage talks of aggressively taking over the console market in organized fashion for sure, for all the big name games were suddenly dumb as shit but with exceptional presentation, all by PC devs. Whatever happened in those Xbox board room talks, it was shameless. Console games by actual legitimate console devs were actually still going relatively strong for the first half of the decade, definitely hindered by rapidly increasing graphics demand, but only becoming wide scale braindead sellout stuff around 2006, likely in response to the Xbox invasion and the kind of games it produced. The industry now had a new direction in mind. And it wasn't one involving actual principled game design. If you know what principled game design even is. Probably not! Most don't even recognize Bioshock game design is all illusion.

It was definitely not all sinister Xbox PC dev planning though. Fancy graphics increased game budgets exponentially. This is the biggest conflict with intelligent game design imaginable for multiple reasons. Doesn't mean a game can't be good, the odds of that are just very slim realistically. Numerous devs were also blinded by the ability to make things more realistic and tell a story like the movies do, and what this means for games (SHIT was often the result, but that's perhaps not what they thought at the time). Another big factor is just how far engine programmers like Carmack et al pushed graphics capability so quickly. The hardware of even PCs were not ready. It was too soon! That's why Doom3 for example is linear, absolutely cramped with low enemy count etc. That's not an Xbox game (well, it was ported later). Low and even mid-range hardware of the time would shit a brick if those games had old school design akin to OG Doom. I'd imagine even good PCs would struggle, given OG doom would have upwards of 60 enemies on screen, and all their glorious swarms of projectiles.

Anyways, we can't be too mad at LGS for their unleashing of hell when they were always scraping by as a PC dev. Though I'd primarily put that under the lack of marketing (publisher at fault) as to why. Marketing is (mostly) everything. You don't actually need to make completely worthless games if you have good marketing, that's what's so tragic about the whole situation. The rare few modern classics proved that. LGS level of grand game design though, yeah that will never be for mass consumption, reaching as wide an audience as possible approach every big budget game "must" take now. It rules out pretty much everyone under the age of, say, 13 for starters. But mid range budgets of today should be a comfy spot for Immersive Sims. The thing is, mid range budget games have almost ceased to be a thing from what I can tell. AAA insane budget or indie is the new norm, with the very occassional mid range, sensibly budgeted game.
Posted by: Join2
« on: 06. March 2024, 10:38:54 »

Vita chamber vs resurrection chamber is essentially the same thing, with only minor differences. In SS their not on by default and can be switched off vs BS where it's on from the get go, but can (I think) be destroyed or turned off in the options menu. Beyond that their the same."

WRONG

Here's the differences between SS2 and Bioshock respawns, oh blind one.
 
-SS2 Reconstruction chambers are not on by default.
-Not all decks/levels have one. In bioshock, they're only not present on the final boss.
-Currency (nanites) consequence for use, which also scales based on difficulty.
-If no currency remaining, game over.
-Respawn at 10% of max health. I forget what it is in Bioshock but it's a lot more. Possibly 50%.
-High enemy respawn rates means you'll likely have more encounters on your way back to where you were.
-"Where you were" in Bioshock is always just around the corner. Vita Chambers are absolutely everywhere. Your only consequence for death is essentially being moved 10ft away from where you died and a brief moment of no control while you're ressurrected. Health is an infinite resource. It gives you 50% every time.

In Bioshock you can literally just keep charging enemies with the wrench over and over, "dying" (being moved 10ft away) repeatedly if necessary, until they're all dead, Including Big Daddies. This is not at all necessary as ammo isn't much a concern, you just do the same with guns. It's borderline God mode. Bioshock is mediocre as fuck, so instead picture if Doom (1993) released with the god mode command as the default. It wasn't a cheat, it was just on all the time as the intended way to play. It would make the entire game redundant. Until a patch came out. For some platforms. And even then it's still on by default as the intended way to play. The only testing mental engagement via gameplay remaining would be navigation challenge for the most part... which Bioshock has got you covered with GPS lol. It's funny, about the only actual challenge that's not illusion is the thing everyone complains about: pipe dream puzzles. But they are not particularly engaging puzzles, it's true. Or they're just overused. Still, the entire rest of the game is not demanding in the slightest so players probably just get conditioned to be mentally lazy.

So the conclusion is, Bioshock isn't a game, almost, it is merely pretending. But "gamers" are thick as rocks, and Irrational quite ingenious (and shameless) in their selling out tactics. Who would have thought after all LGS' pushing the envelope and amazing game design, all they needed to do was make something that wasn't even a game at all. That's how you cash in off the populace.

It's disappointing that the vast majority of people don't quite comprehend simple concepts in front of them as they experience them. Especially disappointing with seasoned gamers. I see it all the time. Full grown adults playing absolutely braindead video games and thinking they're actually valuable. This God Mode state is hardly vague if you're paying even the slightest bit of attention.
The relevance of this is not to be understated when the vast majority of gameplay all revolves around staying alive. You scavenge for resources, get stronger, engage in combat, sneak past, buy stuff, hack things, all of that is based around survival as the primary motive. The core that all gameplay revolves around. There are other reasons too, yes, pure curiosity of interesting interactions and events, you simply like getting powerful and shooting bees at people etc, but survival is the very core that makes all these things whole, and the game actually a game, which it is hard to qualify it as as it stands.
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