Posted by: luigge
« on: 06. June 2024, 15:09:18 »that is very useful thanks 
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 06. June 2024, 14:01:39 »Posted by: luigge
« on: 06. June 2024, 13:07:15 »the font is created but on the game it doesn't display.
I figured out, nevermind. just in case I need this again
change from rgb to indexed and use the pallet of the other font
and do thieffon -c -b 0 -p 254 - w 1
Posted by: Marvin
« on: 21. November 2023, 08:43:13 »The reasons I could give, just to reiterate:
* central archive of the best possible fonts for any SS2 translation
* opportunity to fix non-SHTUP fonts for good like metafont.fon (lacks the "ß" necessary for the German translation, lacks almost all accented characters, does not even do US-ASCII properly)
* improved maintanability/ease-of-use for developers when converting between UTF-8 and the necessary SS2 encoding (e.g. ISO-8859-1 needing no conversion at all)
* central archive of the best possible fonts for any SS2 translation
* opportunity to fix non-SHTUP fonts for good like metafont.fon (lacks the "ß" necessary for the German translation, lacks almost all accented characters, does not even do US-ASCII properly)
* improved maintanability/ease-of-use for developers when converting between UTF-8 and the necessary SS2 encoding (e.g. ISO-8859-1 needing no conversion at all)
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 21. November 2023, 00:48:03 »Okay I took a look at the CZ mod. It appears you kind of half-mutated ISO-8859-1 into ISO-8859-2.
Would there be any value to the community in having full SHTUP-style implementations of ISO-8859-1 and ISO-8859-2 available?
Would there be any value to the community in having full SHTUP-style implementations of ISO-8859-1 and ISO-8859-2 available?
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 20. November 2023, 22:13:18 »uhh.. let me see whether I can remember - I think I have simply taken the original special font, loaded it together with the fully translated CZ strings, and then simply started to edit the fonts bit by bit until all the special characters were displayed correctly ingame. a slow and tedious process I wouldn't want to go through again if I can help it.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 20. November 2023, 21:02:46 »The moment you changed any default characters to different characters, you created a new encoding. Did you pick character positions for the new characters at random, or in accordance with an existing encoding? Using a previously non-existent encoding would have made updating the strings... challenging.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 20. November 2023, 19:59:27 »I don't think I've changed the encoding, so whatever the original special characters font has, the CZ translation should also have.
what I'm trying to say here is the CZ font is not exactly done by the book, and should be treated as such - whatever dumb thing I may have done there will be inherited by any potential fork.
what I'm trying to say here is the CZ font is not exactly done by the book, and should be treated as such - whatever dumb thing I may have done there will be inherited by any potential fork.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 20. November 2023, 19:13:34 »Which character encoding did you use? ISO-8859-2? Windows-1250? CP852? Kamenický?forking the CZ fonts is probably not a good idea
Posted by: Marvin
« on: 19. November 2023, 14:49:48 »OOTB = with the standard mods applied, or supplying from the same source.
Yeah, you're right, the main caveat is that a mod like SHTUP is supposed to be independent from any other mod whereas I was thinking with the entire newbie mod collection in mind.
Yeah, you're right, the main caveat is that a mod like SHTUP is supposed to be independent from any other mod whereas I was thinking with the entire newbie mod collection in mind.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 18. November 2023, 19:52:53 »Modded wouldn't be "out of the box".
SHTUP fonts have to be compatible with the vanilla string resources. Switching over to 8859-1, if that's what you're suggesting, would make SHTUP incompatible with the official German translation.
If that's not what you're suggesting, then I have no idea what you're actually suggesting.
SHTUP fonts have to be compatible with the vanilla string resources. Switching over to 8859-1, if that's what you're suggesting, would make SHTUP incompatible with the official German translation.
If that's not what you're suggesting, then I have no idea what you're actually suggesting.
Posted by: Marvin
« on: 18. November 2023, 18:51:56 »Unmodded, yes. When you use the full translation mod or my SCP translation, subtitles, whatever, you have custom strings, hence you could either have all mods rely on the same font package and supply it separately, or bundle it.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 18. November 2023, 16:58:01 »Eh? The vanilla German translation is encoded in CP850, which has its Ä/Ü/Ö characters at different locations than 8859-1Plus, supplying ISO-8859-1 fonts across the board (SCP, SHTUP, maybe even original newdark) means that English and German (the only official versions iirc) and most fan translations (Brazilian/Portuguese, Spanish, Italian) would be correct ootb and not require their own replacements while profiting from the improved kerning and legibility of the SHTUP fonts.
Posted by: Marvin
« on: 18. November 2023, 09:46:34 »The case for Latin1/ISO-8859-1 is that both it and its extension form the first part (+00 until U+FF) of the original Unicode standard. Meaning that when handling the files on any machine, especially when converting them to UTF-8 (even if Dark does not support it), you cannot lose any information during editing. The texts might not show up correctly if you don't supply the proper fonts, and Eastern Europe is still screwed, but at least it's harder to mess up. The Czech translation even auto-converts from UTF-8 in their Github repo (which is the correct way to do it imo).
Plus, supplying ISO-8859-1 fonts across the board (SCP, SHTUP, maybe even original newdark) means that English and German (the only official versions iirc) and most fan translations (Brazilian/Portuguese, Spanish, Italian) would be correct ootb and not require their own replacements while profiting from the improved kerning and legibility of the SHTUP fonts.
Plus, supplying ISO-8859-1 fonts across the board (SCP, SHTUP, maybe even original newdark) means that English and German (the only official versions iirc) and most fan translations (Brazilian/Portuguese, Spanish, Italian) would be correct ootb and not require their own replacements while profiting from the improved kerning and legibility of the SHTUP fonts.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 17. November 2023, 19:51:08 »The current SHTUP small text fonts include only the same characters included in the original fonts. The encoding is CP850, except for ñ and Ñ being transposed. This error has been preserved in the SHTUP version in case any vanilla localizations rely on it.
ISO-8859-1 and Latin1 are the same thing. CP850 supposedly supports all the same alphabetical characters ISO-8859-1 does, so it seems like it would be easier to stick with CP850 than switching over to a different encoding.
ISO-8859-1 and Latin1 are the same thing. CP850 supposedly supports all the same alphabetical characters ISO-8859-1 does, so it seems like it would be easier to stick with CP850 than switching over to a different encoding.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 17. November 2023, 10:55:23 »this is probably going to be useful, should prevent you from doing that I have done when working on the CZ fonts (and that is, constructing each letter pixel by pixel. that was.. not fun. also, I've made all the fonts sharp iirc, so if someone would want the smooth ones in a translation, then forking the CZ fonts is probably not a good idea). very sure they are not SHTUPified, but I'm not touching them again unless there is a Schwerer Gustav size gun pointed to my head.
Posted by: Marvin
« on: 17. November 2023, 10:03:12 »Working on the German translation again. I must have been drunk while converting the older SHTUP ASCII fonts to OEM-850 because some of the characters are just wrong - which you mostly don't notice because they don't appear in the German version of the game.
Ahem, anyway: Based on the first post, SCP, and my own work, this is what I think we currently have, correct me if I'm wrong:
* modern SHTUP-iified fonts which are (extended) US-ASCII only
* SHTUP-iified fonts (circa 2013) for OEM-850, with some non-German or atypical characters being missing or wrong
* ISO-8859-1 fonts which have not been cleaned up properly and contain some actual characters in places where ISO-8859-1 is empty or would contain control characters if extended with ISO 6429 (or some rarely used characters if switching to windows-1252). Notably, Czech, Turkish and Hungarian support is lacking and the fonts have not been SHTUP-ified.
* Czech fonts by voodoo47 which I think use windows-1250 and were adapted from the ISO fonts (so not SHTUP-ified)
* Russian fonts (https://github.com/BroFox86/ss2-rus) which are completely custom using an unknown codepage and even a different character height/width. They're a bit broken in some instances (e.g. the circumflex "^" is displayed as-is instead of using the lightning bolt glyph) but fit a lot more text on screen without being illegible, which is rather neat.
Does someone have a secret stash of SHTUP-ified Latin1 fonts lying around? Would be cool to at some point have an easy to use, complete set of characters, e.g. Latin1+Latin2. UTF8 is out of the question unless a magic fairy would at some point implement TTF support in NewDark.
Ahem, anyway: Based on the first post, SCP, and my own work, this is what I think we currently have, correct me if I'm wrong:
* modern SHTUP-iified fonts which are (extended) US-ASCII only
* SHTUP-iified fonts (circa 2013) for OEM-850, with some non-German or atypical characters being missing or wrong
* ISO-8859-1 fonts which have not been cleaned up properly and contain some actual characters in places where ISO-8859-1 is empty or would contain control characters if extended with ISO 6429 (or some rarely used characters if switching to windows-1252). Notably, Czech, Turkish and Hungarian support is lacking and the fonts have not been SHTUP-ified.
* Czech fonts by voodoo47 which I think use windows-1250 and were adapted from the ISO fonts (so not SHTUP-ified)
* Russian fonts (https://github.com/BroFox86/ss2-rus) which are completely custom using an unknown codepage and even a different character height/width. They're a bit broken in some instances (e.g. the circumflex "^" is displayed as-is instead of using the lightning bolt glyph) but fit a lot more text on screen without being illegible, which is rather neat.
Does someone have a secret stash of SHTUP-ified Latin1 fonts lying around? Would be cool to at some point have an easy to use, complete set of characters, e.g. Latin1+Latin2. UTF8 is out of the question unless a magic fairy would at some point implement TTF support in NewDark.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 30. December 2018, 09:17:55 »nope - if some character is missing, you will have to create it yourself.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 30. December 2018, 01:01:13 »Hello, do you have another metafont.bmp file because the one that you sent me are missing some characters thanks
Posted by: luigge
« on: 28. December 2018, 22:54:25 »done I checked and now is definitive the fonts are working so no more work on the fonts, just the translation
😓
😓
Posted by: luigge
« on: 28. December 2018, 22:45:46 »oh man you are right X/ can you shut your mouth a little bit 
now the characters are on the wrong position at least the indexed thing worked
now the characters are on the wrong position at least the indexed thing workedPosted by: voodoo47
« on: 28. December 2018, 22:41:16 »I wouldn't count on that.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 28. December 2018, 22:38:08 »modifying the original file worked thanks again, god bless I will not have to change images anymore 😅
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 28. December 2018, 22:34:11 »the original bmps from the first post are set to indexed, so if you have started from that, you must have accidentally changed it somewhere along the way.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 28. December 2018, 22:31:20 »the rgb mode was set by default I haven't changed since you told me to do I will try this
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 28. December 2018, 22:26:40 »you shouldn't have changed the image mode in the first place. no idea whether it's possible to properly change it back to indexed once it's set to RGB - you may have to start all over again from an unbroken, indexed bmp.
copy pasting the content of the broken bmp into a working indexed bmp should also work - that's what I did when fixing the bmps you've posted earlier.
copy pasting the content of the broken bmp into a working indexed bmp should also work - that's what I did when fixing the bmps you've posted earlier.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 28. December 2018, 22:21:12 »Do I need to change any option when converting to indexed or just leave as it is and press "convert".?
Posted by: luigge
« on: 28. December 2018, 22:17:32 »well when I think the problems are over, now the thieffon says that the format type is wrong X/ "unsupported format type"
oh man what have I done to deserve this?
the file colors are indexed as you told me to change and I am just exporting without marking any option.
[thieffon problem.png expired]
oh man what have I done to deserve this?
the file colors are indexed as you told me to change and I am just exporting without marking any option.
[thieffon problem.png expired]
Posted by: luigge
« on: 28. December 2018, 21:58:35 »I think it is been at least 4/5 days that I am into this. I am almost finishing the translation. I was thinking in maybe take the mod that makes everything in hd and translate the images from there so in the game they appear with more quality but this of course will be another time first of all just translate the txt.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 28. December 2018, 21:50:43 »told you there's a lot of fun to be had here.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 28. December 2018, 21:49:54 »oh man the reason of why the fonts was not working in the same place as that of the 8859-1 table was the thing with indexed colors, now I need to change back to the original position oh man very thanks again, now my fonts load in the place where they should be
Posted by: luigge
« on: 28. December 2018, 21:46:04 »whatever just managed to do this thanks again.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 28. December 2018, 21:43:23 »hmm... this for sure will help a lot, thanks
do you know how to do this in gimp?
do you know how to do this in gimp?
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 28. December 2018, 21:42:23 »I have checked the bmps you have posted earlier, and you have changed their mode from indexed to RGB. that will not work, you have to keep them indexed.
dimmed is used on log text you have already read.
dimmed is used on log text you have already read.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 28. December 2018, 21:34:07 »hello again, what have you done to fix black characteres? my characteres just turned black I have tried to fix but no sucess. I'm using the same codes as you told me to use
-c -m -a to metafont although I haven't changed the glyphs for this font and blueaa.
-c -m to mainfont
-c to others
edit 1: do you know which place in the game uses the dimmed font?
-c -m -a to metafont although I haven't changed the glyphs for this font and blueaa.
-c -m to mainfont
-c to others
edit 1: do you know which place in the game uses the dimmed font?
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 28. December 2018, 09:13:58 »the modmanager just loads the mod in a safe way, nothing else.
rcs and german can be ignored, if I remember correctly.
yes, that should be correct. as long as ALL your translated string files use the same encoding, and the bmps are modified to display that ONE encoding properly, everything should work as far as I can tell.fon have to match the encoding of the text I want to translate
rcs and german can be ignored, if I remember correctly.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 28. December 2018, 04:27:53 »one other thing, inside the strings folder there is two folders called rcs and german do I need to translate this file too or they are not needed?
Posted by: luigge
« on: 28. December 2018, 04:01:01 »do you know if windows notepad saves the files in a particular encoding? or is the same as the one windows are using so if I send the translation to other people it will not be messed up
edit 1 looks like windows notepad are saving in ansi. well whatever encoding I save in notepad++ stays there so there is no reason to worry about, now start translating the game files
edit 1 looks like windows notepad are saving in ansi. well whatever encoding I save in notepad++ stays there so there is no reason to worry about, now start translating the game files
Posted by: luigge
« on: 28. December 2018, 03:53:33 »well I just need to encode all the txt with the same encoding and I will not have problems.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 28. December 2018, 03:47:34 »what I know is that when I change the encoding of the .txt I need to change the file.fon to mach otherwise in the game the characteres will be messed up
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 28. December 2018, 03:44:27 »No, no, no, no, NO, NOOOOO. The mod manager doesn't do anything to files except extract them.looks like that the mod manager makes the game to read the files that are.txt in the encoding that I set
I give up. This guy is obviously in write-only mode.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 28. December 2018, 03:40:20 »looks like that the mod manager makes the game to read the files that are.txt in the encoding that I set and then files .fon have to match the encoding of the text I want to translate so this is what is going on and then I can translate right
so for example If I encode the .txt files with UTF8 (without BOM) the .fon needs to be like the 2 image to me
now if I encode the txt with 8859-1 then the I have to use the image 1
and then if I wanted to encode the txt in cp850 probably the character with accents would be in another location I guess
[fonts encoding2.png expired]
so for example If I encode the .txt files with UTF8 (without BOM) the .fon needs to be like the 2 image to me
now if I encode the txt with 8859-1 then the I have to use the image 1
and then if I wanted to encode the txt in cp850 probably the character with accents would be in another location I guess
[fonts encoding2.png expired]
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 28. December 2018, 02:19:17 »LITERALLY THE FIRST POST OF THIS THREAD.I just found that the game uses the encoding 8859-1
Also wrong, as I already told you. But, if you overwrite the fonts to use 8859-1 ordering, and author your text files in 8859-1, it probably will work anyway.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 28. December 2018, 02:01:20 »bingo! I just found that the game uses the encoding 8859-1 at least now after changing the encoding of the subtitle with the notepad++ the special characters match and now I know that I will be able to translate
Posted by: luigge
« on: 28. December 2018, 01:23:59 »well looks like the subtitles uses a different type of encoding from the game but they all share the same mainaa.fon and now I have a problem if I translate the game items the translation will be messed up, even changing the encoding in notepad++ to the cp850 doesn't work. oh boy this is so difficult because the 8856 wich should be working is not and now I don't know what to do
Posted by: luigge
« on: 28. December 2018, 00:20:55 »nope, doing this does nothing the font is still being convertet to another type of encoding or it is just ignoring blank pink squares except of the space and then I will have to use the same positions as img 1, I will not be able to use in the original position from 8859-1 because for me this messes with the characteres.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 27. December 2018, 23:59:42 »I think I know, I need to use the -f to set the first character in the pos 32 this is the problem, otherwise the thieffon ignores the first 2 rows and just write the character in the pos 0
let me test this
let me test this
Posted by: luigge
« on: 27. December 2018, 23:45:56 »I just entered the code [System.Text.Encoding]::Default
In windows powershell and looks like the character encoding that I'm using is the 8859-1 and the windows cp1252 I don't know why isn't the number 2 image not working with me
In windows powershell and looks like the character encoding that I'm using is the 8859-1 and the windows cp1252 I don't know why isn't the number 2 image not working with me
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 27. December 2018, 22:51:32 »This is going to be a glorious mess.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 27. December 2018, 22:27:47 »would be careful with those subtitles though - if the editor is complaining about broken headers, then those definitely need to be fixed.
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