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Topic Summary

Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 18. June 2024, 16:48:53 »

then he better acquire some editor knowledge first, else this is going to be a painful journey.

or at least take a look at some other translation, to see what textures need to be translated and which can be left alone.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 18. June 2024, 16:47:25 »

He's trying to create a Portuguese translation of the entire game, since there was never an official localization. That will require touching non-SHTUP bitmaps. Mostly UI ones.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 18. June 2024, 16:15:30 »

what I'm trying to get through here is that if he is creating a portugese translation of SHTUP, then he should work with SHTUP resources, and not ponder what can be found in the vanilla crfs.

sifting through vanilla textures and trying to translate them willy-nilly is a very bad idea.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 18. June 2024, 15:55:27 »

He's talking about UI panels that SHTUP doesn't even touch.

And apparently wondering if the vanilla game has things in the wrong place. Just WTF all around.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 18. June 2024, 14:59:12 »

again, if you already are working with SHTUP, you can simply forget about vanilla pcx. no need to touch them anymore.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 18. June 2024, 14:13:14 »

WTF, equip.pcx isn't even used.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 18. June 2024, 11:30:12 »

hello there, I have noticed that on these 2 images "equip.pcx" and "technic.pcx" the bottom upgrades are swapped modify and repair, I don't remember if in game they are changed or not. is the order really to be swapped like that?
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 16. June 2024, 18:22:54 »

Life will be much easier for you if you learn a little bit of DromEd, so you can look at all the game levels directly and create sign objects directly so you don't have to go looking for them.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 16. June 2024, 18:17:29 »

as far as it goes, I am opening the images, and exporting as is with indexed mode and in regards to alpha channel, I believe most of them have an alpha channel since theres transparency in some layers when I merge them.

Sometimes I dont even merge them all I just export them and it have been working great so far. the only problem is finding where are the source ingame of some files that have text to be translated (so I can know if the edditing is correct) and knowing weather I should export as png or gif since a lot of files are exported as gif, so for example all menus like the skills, tech, psi, hack, logs etc I am exporting as gif since the others are like that. but when I don't know, I export as png.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 16. June 2024, 08:46:59 »

well, if he runs into trouble then he'll post here almost for sure.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 15. June 2024, 22:56:21 »

He's probably going to be screwed for any TGA textures where words have transparent borders. Maybe GIMP handles PNG transparency better than PSP so he could just use that instead of TGA.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 15. June 2024, 22:17:05 »

guess I was lucky (back) then.

anyways, if he is using SHTUP now, then he won't have to deal with pcx, and as long as he just opens a SHTUP texture in gimp, makes the edit, and overwrites the file to save the changes, then he should be good, I believe.

also remember that CZ pirate that pirated the game, a bunch of mods, and the old CZ translation, but actually translated some textures to complete the bundle, and some were good enough so I've pirated them back for the actual CZ translation? fun times.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 15. June 2024, 22:07:45 »

GIF transparency absolutely will vanish if you convert to 24-bit color or even save as an indexed PNG, because Dark uses palette slot-based transparency, which paint programs have no awareness of, instead of GIF transparency. If you want transparency in a PNG you have to do it as an alpha channel, and in Paint Shop Pro this will introduce a black fringe around the borders because it throws out all pixels with 100% transparency when you save. That's why SHTUP uses TGA for transparent sign textures that don't have black  outlines.

SHTUP uses GIF instead of TGA or PNG for the floor arrows because all the transparent borders are straight or diagonal, so a full alpha channel would be overkill.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 15. June 2024, 21:36:27 »

I think I didn't have a problem with this when I was doing the textures for the CZ translation. or did I just re-add it?

guess we'll see if he runs into that problem - if he is just editing SHTUP textures then I think he won't.


so to make it short - if you are working with SHTUP now, do whatever SHTUP does, very sure that's the best way.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 15. June 2024, 21:28:17 »

Quote by voodoo47:
- yes, change everything to RGB and export as png
Say goodbye to all your transparency if you do that.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 15. June 2024, 17:31:00 »

iirc, you can't really do much with the hud elements - whatever can be done, has already been done by SHTUP.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 15. June 2024, 13:03:24 »

another question, is it possible to increase this image's resolution by using an mtl file aswell so the text inside would be better?

[help.gif expired]
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 15. June 2024, 08:05:52 »

- no need for the gif comment.
- yes, change everything to RGB and export as png. //forgot about textures that have transparent parts, so don't do this, just edit the SHTUP texture, and overwrite to save the changes.
- there is no sane reason for any SS2 texture to go beyond 1024, but yes, 4096x4096 should be supported.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 14. June 2024, 22:47:55 »

alright, I downloaded the mod, and I will now do all again from "scratch".

first I just want to understand: I have noticed that some of the files are in the gif format, is that just because this format is smaller in size or in game they "gif" somehow? like for example those arrows on the ground that point to locations. or the gif is to do with the resolution being able to be scaled up to 4096x4096?

now for the second: when exporting as a gif, there's a setting about leaving a comment something like "this was made with gimp" that is not needed right?

for 3rd: when I open the files on gimp, it is opening in indexed mode by default, should I leave as is or change to rgb?

[esporting as gif on gimp.png expired]
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 14. June 2024, 22:00:16 »

ok, try to describe what you are trying to accomplish here, in as simple words as possible.

example: I want to edit the blinking caution sign to say cuidado instead of caution, and I want to use the vanilla texture as base.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 14. June 2024, 21:52:54 »

it's just that it won't load that since the name on the mod is different, I am just showing that so you change on the mod. unless it works normal as cauta_ and cauta_1
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 14. June 2024, 21:50:36 »

why would those bother you if you are trying to create a SHTUP translation? just ignore the vanilla crfs.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 14. June 2024, 21:46:59 »

this is what I say about these images wrong names
[caut.png expired]
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 14. June 2024, 21:40:26 »

aha, ok. well, you probably should wipe the slate clean then and start again with SHTUP proper.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 14. June 2024, 21:32:31 »

I had downloaded the shtup localization pack this is why I was working with wrong files
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 14. June 2024, 21:31:35 »

then there should be no pcx files involved. you take the SHTUP texture, open it with gimp, do the edits, choose to overwrite to save the changes, done.

the SHTUP filenames are correct I'm very sure.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 14. June 2024, 21:24:34 »

I downloaded shtup-ND beta 2 that is what I am using, the file I said was under obj/warning/ cout_ and cout_1 apparently I am referring as a different beta version or such I downloaded from that link on the bottom.



alright, I apologize for the confusion, I didn't had the correct shtup mod version downloaded. apparently I have a different weird version I downloaded from somewhere else

also the original files are called "caut_" and "caut_1" but the shtup is called "cauta_" and "cauta_1" so, is it supposed to be called as that?
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 14. June 2024, 20:28:41 »

ok, lets maybe start from square one - are you trying to create a texture mod with translated textures? if so, you have a decision to make;

1) you will work with vanilla textures, and the mod will not be compatible with SHTUP. in that case, do not use any SHTUP assets.
2) you will work with SHTUP textures (only taking out the textures that need to be translated), and the mod will require SHTUP as base. you will only work with SHTUP assets in that case.

so which one is it?


note - SHTUP is so essential that option 1 is pretty much not really an option, but hey, if you want to do the crazy thing then don't let me stop you.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 14. June 2024, 19:55:52 »

Quote by luigge:
i meant caut_.gif and caut_1.gif
None of those files exist in SHTUP or the original files.

With this level of attention to detail, you are going to have nothing but problems.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 14. June 2024, 19:49:29 »

yes, if you are creating a texture mod for SS2, the new files should be saved as png/RGB, the old format can cause issues.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 14. June 2024, 18:03:41 »

Caut.gif i meant caut_.gif and caut_1.gif

i am just modifying the files of the shtup folder, exporting as .pcx and putting on the mod folder just as that.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 14. June 2024, 16:31:30 »

There is no caut.gif, anywhere, in any version.

The SCP version uses a custom model for that sign. If you're trying to modify the SCP textures without the model, or the vanilla textures with that model, you're going to get a mess.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 14. June 2024, 15:43:39 »

Quote by voodoo47:
I would start by using RGB instead of indexed, and exporting as png. there is no (sane) reason to stick with the old format, it only causes problems.

Well then so I should be exporting every image as png and rgb instead? I guess I can try that.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 14. June 2024, 15:41:29 »

I even just replaced the Caut.gif files from the shtup and the behavior is the same it gets written that weird way
Posted by: luigge
« on: 14. June 2024, 15:37:21 »

let me explain what I am doing:

I have downloaded the files of shtup beta 2.

what I am doing is, just replacing the text and saving all as image.pcx format and they all work fine.

in the case of this image, I have exported as caut_.gif and caut_1.gif exactly as it is on the shtup folder. I even checked for what is the format and perhaps could be that gimp auto saves as indexed mode then.

what I say about messing with the original game files, is that I often just go to the original file to see how it is made because the file will replace and the behavior should be the same.

perhaps my steam version is a different verison

and I realized that the original file for that, instead of the text, it's just a yellow bar that then gets replaced by some transparent text that says caution.


I am playing on steam the latest version and the only other mod I have is the 400% terrain textures one.

Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 14. June 2024, 12:08:36 »

You've created some insane mashup of the vanilla and SCP versions of that sign. If you're modifying the SCP version, then don't try to modify the vanilla assets, and vice versa.

If you have no previous experience with texturing, nor any ability to figure out technical issues, this is not going to go well for you.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 14. June 2024, 06:57:21 »

I would start by using RGB instead of indexed, and exporting as png. there is no (sane) reason to stick with the old format, it only causes problems.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 14. June 2024, 01:28:59 »

I needed the mtl file to display properly on the steam version.

now another question, I have edited the files caut_ and caut_1 but the bottom part of the image on the game is weird, do I need to do the same with the mtl file? I have also realised that the original game file instead of the text theres just a yellow bar so perhaps I should write the text in a different channel or something?

I have done exactly as it is on the SHTUP folder, indexed mode, without alfa channel and the same color map.

on the foreground it says "cuidado" in portuguese and in the background says "caution" in english
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 13. June 2024, 14:27:44 »

Ah, that's a fix for the vanilla version using a mismatched palette. SCP and I think SS2Tool include that fix. The SHTUP version just replaces it with a new high-res texture.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 13. June 2024, 14:14:53 »

didn't it need some extra mtl var to display properly? so that the psi text wouldn't be red.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 13. June 2024, 13:20:16 »

Orient.pcx isn't special, it's just a terrain texture.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 13. June 2024, 07:59:25 »

it's because you are doing everything wrong.

- use (NewDark) SHTUP files as base whenever possible (it's beta2 btw, the 7 is part of the 7zip archive file extension).
- no need to mess around with palettes, if you have to work with the original pcx files, just switch them to RGB (gimp image/mode/RGB) and export as png.
- orient.pcx is a bit special, you need to set up a mtl file so it would be displayed properly ingame. see the SHTUP orient.mtl and orient.inc files. NewDark documentation (SS2\Docs\newdark) has instructions on how to set up mtl files and explains when they are needed.
Posted by: luigge
« on: 12. June 2024, 22:32:44 »

first of all I hope this thread is on the right place otherwhise you all may just move it.

I have edited some images to increase the size, and I used as a base the files of the newdark beta 2.7 since I play on steam and apparently I am uncapable of reading that there is a version 6 for the original game :|

https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=22.0

so first of all, I decided to scale this picture here (...FAM.CRF/Tech/Orient.pcx) and I realized that the pallet for the original file wasn't matching the pa1.pal I guess since the other files on this folder had a different pallet.  (I am refering to the original game files where I opened them to see what indexed pallete was being used so the pallete for this picture was different from the pallete used by the other files.) 

the reson is that I wanted to change the color of the "TECHNICAL" font to match the lights of the entrance which the color is slightly off but the pallet that it uses doens't have a perfect matching color. but even if I change the image pallete color to match I suppose it uses this pa1.pal colors on the respective id positions so it doesn't change to the one I want.

also I believe this was the best I could do in terms of rescaling I had to use the original 64x64 and just write in a way that is legible since if you increase this image size it doesn't seems to work great (I am using the latest steam version)

https://imgur.com/a/HWN3l5L I have added here an image showing this image rescaled to 256x256 and it gets stretched like this and doesn't seem to scale well.

the game is set to run in windowed mode if does make a difference

I am exporting the scaled images to .pcx format with indexed color mode and the pallet I normally use the one from the original image so is this the right way to do it?

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