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Replicator restrictions are in place for the good of whom?:

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Topic Summary

Posted by: sarge945
« on: 17. September 2024, 14:55:23 »

One feature that would be simpler AND maybe useful, would be if you could use a certain item on a hacked turret to "replace" it with a version of the appropriate type.

This could probably be done with Squirrel, and wouldn't have issues with things like AI pathing.

But honestly, I don't really play Secmod and wouldn't really know much about what's best for the mod gameplay-wise.
Posted by: Nameless Voice
« on: 17. September 2024, 14:00:30 »

Not so much impossible as it would be a lot of work to make the models, rig everything up, and most of all to make an interface for controlling all of this.

I don't think that would be worth it for a feature that doesn't even sound that useful and which almost no one would use.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 17. September 2024, 06:00:15 »

This isn't some organisational problem or mismanagement preventing progress. The Dark Engine is pretty well understood at this point. Some things are hardcoded, some things are not, and there's nothing preventing making any mod to do anything, unless it's hardcoded. A "creatable" turret might actually be possible in some circumstances, but would be a lot of work and may not work and would likely have problems (like enemies trying to path through it). But full-on turret customisation is absolutely impossible. It doesn't matter how much you BELIEVE it's possible, the engine is just the way it is.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 17. September 2024, 03:53:04 »

It's okay to admit that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.
Posted by: notaavatar
« on: 17. September 2024, 02:54:54 »

I think with engineering its often hard to tell what's what because most of it is negotiated around stable jobs, reasonable pay for possibly unreasonable jobs (difficult jobs come and go but your salary needs to stay constant) and hard projects are not considered unless their framed as being easy to finish.

you can always have hope
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 17. September 2024, 02:21:55 »

Are you implying that the technical limitations of the Dark engine can be overcome by sheer willpower?

I'm pretty sure that's not how software development works. If there's any emotional process involved, progress in software is powered by pain and suffering.
Posted by: notaavatar
« on: 17. September 2024, 01:16:17 »

who know what kind of stuff a smart person can come up with to fix the game engine, don't fall into old dogma . now there is AI coding tools and all sorts of aids for modders
Posted by: Dark-Star88
« on: 15. September 2024, 05:11:47 »

notaavatar
Even with NewDark, it would be easier to fix the later levels of the game itself rather than the absolute nightmare of enabling something like that within the limitations of the Dark Engine.

We're pretty lucky to even have turret repair at all.



Posted by: notaavatar
« on: 29. July 2024, 00:49:30 »

and a wrench or saber turret that engages enemies with melee. or pool cue
Posted by: notaavatar
« on: 29. July 2024, 00:46:58 »

Another idea for tinker

For all those useless weapons lying on the ship, what if you could combine a weapon and a turret to make a turret of your choice?
laser turret = phaser + turret
rocket turret = grenade launcher + turret
fast machine gun turret = machine gun or smart gun

And of course you could do something even more evil and have turret that use ammo. So you could collect ammo and certain weapons outside of your class range to be able to make turrets of a certain type if you run out of whatever ammo you want.
Posted by: notaavatar
« on: 12. July 2024, 01:18:35 »

the other puzzle that can break is on the ricken backer, also involving the wire puzzle. It happened in the same run through that the local feedback puzzle broke and I had to go back a deck in saves.

on the rickenbacker
when you need to raise the med bed. fortunately you can jump on a large armor to grapple to the next level. its where diego died

Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 13. May 2024, 07:31:23 »

share crashdumps and logs should that happen.
Posted by: notaavatar
« on: 13. May 2024, 02:04:18 »

but if you just can't solve the puzzle, chances are you are missing a detail. it remind me of polynomial equation with 2 solutions, there seems to be a wrong one that is very close. it will make a noise when you finish the puzzle, but there is a chance after doing it, the trigger will bug. but I only had that on the 3rd playthrough.
Posted by: notaavatar
« on: 13. May 2024, 02:03:07 »

it bugs and sometimes even crashes at that part. i recommend saving before ops deck, doing that part first, or having a save before you ever go to ops deck.

you solve puzzle, shoot the thing, and then the doors should open. not necessary for game play but you get access to the broken replicator that is very nice
Posted by: DoomGaze
« on: 04. May 2024, 12:21:11 »

Guys I'm really sorry if this has been answered but I scoured the thread and haven't found anything.

The "Local Feedback Loop" issue on Ops-- am I doing something wrong?  I can't quite get the meter on the wire puzzle all the way to the top, and I have no idea what else to do.  I'm looking around for clues and whatnot, I smashed three computer consoles.  Is there something I'm supposed to be doing that I'm not getting? 
Posted by: notaavatar
« on: 06. April 2024, 03:34:27 »

Ah I was watching startrek TOS "arena" and I see where maybe the inspiration for the prism grenade came about, it reminds me of the mortar kirk used.

That prism grenade is interesting, combination between stasis gun and grenade. I need to try a heavy first playthrough. I thought it was kind of weak considering
1) you can get stasis generator from the box in eng
2) the stun is short

Kind of wonder how it would turn out if you put your templates into prism grenades, and skip the stasis gun in inventory. There should be enough prisms for fusion cannon use still even if you turn all the templates into prisms

then you have radioactive prism grenades vs radioactive prisms in fusion cannon or radioactive prisms in stasis field generator. Not sure how that will work out
Posted by: notaavatar
« on: 26. March 2024, 23:35:22 »

also, prox grenades can be used for tram puzzle. rando puzzles could make heavy weapons more appealing because you could lay prox mine traps for the harder ones.
Posted by: notaavatar
« on: 10. March 2024, 04:58:52 »

I am excited to try lvl 7 cryokinisis + flame thrower
Posted by: notaavatar
« on: 25. February 2024, 04:12:14 »

I got another fun idea, how about more template grenades, that use organs, to make exotic grenades, with tinker trait?

some ideas for organ things:
-a homing grenade kinda like a shot from the worm cannon
-a grenade that works like psi mind control, perhaps brezerk instead of freindly, so they attack whomever is nearby for a short duration. side effects seem fun so like a 5% chance you get a 200% speed enraged rumbler, or even if enemies get psi powers from it
-some kinda gas grenade.. to make it different how about it decreases damage taken by enemy but does no damage
-swarm grenade
-these grenades can do some side effects too like spawn some angry worms from corpse too (% chance)

the transfer rate does not need to be 1:1 to balance this idea

other tinkers:
-be able to modify bullets using chemicals so you can turn them into the type you want at a loss, i.e. standard to AP with some tough element
-bond portable battery to template to make some kinda large AOE stun grenade (super expensive IMO, batteries are rare, and quite useful)
-some kind of homing bullets like that movie Runaway. maybe a repair tool could do this mod to make a small quantity?
-spider grenade. mix hand grenade (or scrambler) with some item to make it into a spider grenade that has IFF and runs up to enemies. IMO this grenade is so damn useless. not enough ambushes in the game either to make it worth while. Should do more damage too

It would be cool to get tinker from first OS upgrade station. I find that some other choices are SO appealing that its hard to make that choice.


I also want more bosses and ambushes! I loved the psi rumbler in recreation.

some random ideas
1) robot showdown in cafeteria on dec 4. you get attacked by 1 wimpy bot. how about getting attacked by a small army, or some kinda enhanced bot, perhaps with high speed. this area is so under used. thought it would be epic but its not.
2)  in deck five, after you clear the apartments a buncha hybrids break the glass and jump down from the upper hallway from previously locked apartment.
3) make the korenchkin psi reaver meaner. it could move faster, or spawn in some enemies with a psi power
Posted by: notaavatar
« on: 21. February 2024, 06:17:06 »

I tried that and I guess its OK vs something like cyborg assassins that are throwing stars but maybe the problem is the GFX because it does seem its better when used on the floor, but it basically looks like someone instantly dying from some puny flame that might light your pants on fire, or sometimes it looks like someone is taking damage from nothing.

I guess its more efficient then grenades when tested on medsci hybrid pack too.
Posted by: ThiefsieFool
« on: 20. February 2024, 12:51:16 »

I explained how the flamer works right here: https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=7153.msg141166#msg141166
But I'm not totally opposed to giving it a buff, so long as it keeps the same identity, which is a more tactical weapon than a point and click and uberkill weapon.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 20. February 2024, 12:19:37 »

maybe consider registering so you would be able to edit your posts.
Posted by: notaavatar
« on: 20. February 2024, 12:06:05 »

for fusion cannon, its weak, but if you don't go standard, and recycle all the ammo, you can buy alot of radium prisms. works with energy
Posted by: notaavatar
« on: 19. February 2024, 22:51:23 »

another issue I have is with the flame thrower.

Did anyone figure out how to use this thing effectively?  The ammo is sparse. The ammo is expensive. At level 3 heavy, if you buy napalm, the damage compared to lvl 3 grenades is not worth it.

I feel like converting napalm to fire grenades with templates is a way better strategy then trying to use napalm. You set a large group on fire from a distance.

Did anyone find a use for it?
Posted by: notaavatar
« on: 18. February 2024, 02:35:14 »

and a way to hotkey more spells from the psi amp so you can play psi better. or some soft casting menu you can bring up with a mouse key
Posted by: notaavatar
« on: 01. February 2024, 08:29:04 »

another idea is a hotkey to use a battery to reload your energy weapon in inventory
Posted by: notaavatar
« on: 29. January 2024, 06:52:21 »

if they had some contact det with the tinker trait and a bit better physics it would be pretty rad. you would still need to be pretty close so its not the ideal substitute. make it scale with exotic skill >_>
Posted by: notaavatar
« on: 29. January 2024, 06:50:24 »

I got an idea for exotic psi playthrough it would be cool if you can turn the rifle grenades into hand grenades with the tinker trait some how if you don't wanna use the GL. Maybe you can improve HG though. It feels kind of like F.e.a.r. with the grenades but they kinda suck... but it seems like a easy modification to turn a rifle grenade into a hand grenade.
Posted by: Joe
« on: 27. October 2023, 00:13:52 »

Voodoo saves the day again. Thank you!
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 26. October 2023, 09:56:14 »

find the customized texture in Secmod's obj/txt16 folder and rename/delete it.
Posted by: Joe
« on: 26. October 2023, 00:29:26 »

This is a tiny issue I've had with Secmod for some years, but... what is the easiest way I might replace the door button/switch textures with the vanilla one?
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 17. October 2023, 00:21:42 »

fair enough
Posted by: Joe
« on: 17. October 2023, 00:12:25 »

sarge945I am fairly sure I have done that; I am a pretty thorough explorer and so probably would've walked over that area you posted, *and* have been using Secmod 3 since release and I am fairly sure I would've noticed the issue you describe. By no means a scientific analysis but I think the source is more likely to lie with you, also given the lack of reports of the issue.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 16. October 2023, 00:46:01 »

I don't particularly like them either, except the tram one, which is amazing.

The grenade launcher sometimes requires you to walk over it before it appears, are you sure you did that?
Posted by: Joe
« on: 16. October 2023, 00:34:43 »

For what it's worth, Sarge, I've not encountered that grenade launcher issue a single time. I am sure that isn't helpful to you in any capacity but just figured I'd help you narrow things down.

RE: wire puzzles -- not a fan. Would love an addon to remove them/replace them with something else. What that might be, I don't know, but there it is. No offense to TF, of course.

EDIT: actually would just rather the wire puzzles be replaced by hackable pads.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 16. October 2023, 00:16:14 »

Quote by ThiefsieFool:
The one special case that comes to mind is what happens when you solve the wire puzzle inside the tram, a lot of monsters can spawn if you take too long, it's a case where normal vanilla spawns can actually be pretty annoying, so maybe that ecology should be adjusted.

Absolutely not.

I know I've been vocal in the past about not being a fan of Secmod, but one of the highlights of it for me has been solving that puzzle under duress.

It's very rare for the vanilla game to actually induce urgency like that, and having it enforced here is a very refreshing change.

Some of the wire puzzles in other areas can be a bit tedious and feel like they are wasting my time, but this one is perfect and if it were up to me I'd leave it completely as it is for that reason.

On a related note, I've noticed all of the wire puzzles have preset solutions. Would there be a way to randomise these? From what I understand, squirrel runs OnBeginScript after NVScript has already done it's thing, so depending on how the wire puzzles work, it may or may not be possible to squirrel a solution.
Posted by: ThiefsieFool
« on: 15. October 2023, 13:58:24 »

Also like voodoo mentioned, some levels might have been saved after editing, unfortunate but it is what it is, I think it's the case with Rick1 as I remember working to fix that one https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=12399.msg150328#msg150328
Posted by: ThiefsieFool
« on: 15. October 2023, 13:27:59 »

I got a little curious why it's often said that the mod has greatly increased spawn rates.
To my knowledge all the ecologies have default spawn rates and no extra ecologies were added.

There is some script code on the base archetype, for spawning things when a camera is destroyed, but it should not trigger more than once.

Ecology:
NVRelayTrapOn="CameraDed"; NVRelayTrapTOn="TurnOn"; NVRelayTrapTDest="&SwitchLink";
Security Camera:
NVRelayTrapOn="Slain"; NVRelayTrapTOn="CameraDed"; NVRelayTrapTDest="&SwitchLink";

The one special case that comes to mind is what happens when you solve the wire puzzle inside the tram, a lot of monsters can spawn if you take too long, it's a case where normal vanilla spawns can actually be pretty annoying, so maybe that ecology should be adjusted.
It would definitely be nice if there was a trick to quickly check which objects differ from vanilla.

Posted by: sarge945
« on: 03. October 2023, 09:52:55 »

It mainly happens on medsci1 and rick1, where the origin points are inside the map.

For every other map, they usually have air rooms like they are supposed to.

There's also an audible sound when using the recharger, because it creates an invisible object.

Honestly though, I think this particular issue can be resolved by making the grenade launcher HasRefs be false when it's not being actively needed.
Posted by: Nameless Voice
« on: 03. October 2023, 09:40:01 »

It's generally considered a no-no to allow the player to access the world origin at 0,0,0 - but I guess no one told Irrational.

In Thief maps, the rule is to put a small air box there and then build the rest of the map somewhere else.

Moving all of medsci1 doesn't sound like a great idea though.  Especially given DML minimods exist.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 03. October 2023, 01:26:37 »

Okay, so it seems my Randomiser issue is not actually a Randomiser issue, it's a Secmod issue.

Running Secmod only (no other mods), is anyone else able to reproduce this issue?

This is the grenade launcher attached to the Shotgun hybrid (613) from the intro chase scene in medsci1.

To make this appear, simply walk along the small metal path in the recharger room, which is the origin point of the map (0,0,0). You need to walk into it to make it appear.

I have also seen a "droid spark" (-1500) appear there occasionally.

A similar issue exists in rick1 in the starting room.

This doesn't affect gameplay but is definitely weird. It should probably be fixed.

@voodoo47, @ThiefsieFool any idea how to deal with this? Maybe my install is just borked? This is normal Secmod only, no other mods!

EDIT: This can be hard to reproduce, it only happens sometimes. I thought reinstalling the mod fixed it, but I just didn't see it a few times.
[dump125.png expired]
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 30. September 2023, 17:15:56 »

arachno-fix!

a few changes will be necessary to get the maps working when using vanilla filenames, but nothing major - just include the stub difs in case someone is using a no-tool install, change the filenames, make sure the affected map transitions still work properly, done.
Posted by: ThiefsieFool
« on: 30. September 2023, 16:51:01 »

Renaming those maps always felt like a pretty fragile change so I avoided it. I can't recommend it unless you are willing to test after and see what explodes.

In other news, this is what happens if you ever reuse a stim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0n_XQuQm7I


Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 30. September 2023, 13:17:33 »

yes on the fingerprinting and mission filename cleanup, unless TF has some other idea. I'll fix the ops4 prison worm spawner while at it.

there is a trillion SCPb5 minor tweaks that could be/should be ported over, but I'm not getting into that until b5 is actually out.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 30. September 2023, 13:07:01 »

I have been doing a deep-dive through Secmod as part of adding Randomiser support, and I found some things that might be worth changing (all technical, nothing gameplay related), as they will make Secmod easier to support by other mods going forward.

1. Hydro4.mis doesn't have the "secmod" qvar set. As a result, there's no easy way to DML fingerprint it without using the object position method (which is annoying).

This fingerprint doesn't work

Code: [Select]
FINGERPRINT
{
   QVAR "secmod" == 1
}

I have created a fingerprint for the level, anyone should feel free to use it:

Code: [Select]
FINGERPRINT
{
   1049 [-64 -67 -3]
   962 [-66 -144 -22]
   1051 [-2 -301 -32]
   1107 [34 -450 -32]
   1235 [-50 -480 -41]
   1263 [-52 -413 -33]
   967 [-62 -9 -25]
   966 [-70 -9 -25]
}

2. For some inexplicable reason, hydro2.mis is renamed to shydro2.mis, and shodan.mis is renamed sshodan.mis. The mod also contains a hydro2.mis file which is a copy of hydro1.mis and, AFAIK, isn't used at all, so it's just wasting space in the archive.

This is bad for a multitude of reasons, but the most important one being that any DML-heavy mod that needs to do anything complex for the hydro2 or shodan maps will basically have to be copy-pasted in order to work with the shydro2 and sshodan maps.

My assumption is that these maps were renamed to workaround the issues people used to have involving hydro2.dif and shodan.dif, however these issues are a thing of the past and the workaround is no longer necessary.

Would it be worth renaming these missions back to their old names? This should make mod compatibility significantly better for those maps. This should allow the majority of DML mods to "just work" with minor/no modifications as a lot of the object numbers between SCP/Vanilla and Secmod are still the same.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 02. July 2023, 08:50:32 »

can make them hackable when in stasis.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 02. July 2023, 01:14:28 »

Being able to hack robots would be difficult to pull off because they can't be disabled. But I like the "droid immortality protocol" approach of making them repairable.

I find droid immortality slightly unbalanced personally, as I feel the benefits that it provides outweigh the cost of investment into repair. But additionally tying a research requirement to it could make it a bit more in line with other things, and might be a nice idea.
Posted by: ReconUnit
« on: 01. July 2023, 23:35:06 »

Quote by ThiefsieFool:
Stuff like that would probably go into Research, there is already one case where a new organ was added to toxic goo eggs, and when you finish researching it you essentially get a perk that gives you increased efficiency with anti-toxin hypos.

Potentially maybe some mechanical parts dropped by robots, assassins and turrets that can be researched, in addition to doing more damage to them but also finding more loot/ammo on defeat. Or being able to hack robots when properly researched.
Posted by: ThiefsieFool
« on: 23. June 2023, 12:13:28 »

Stuff like that would probably go into Research, there is already one case where a new organ was added to toxic goo eggs, and when you finish researching it you essentially get a perk that gives you increased efficiency with anti-toxin hypos.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 23. June 2023, 06:51:25 »

yes on the cap, but additional perks should be doable, they just won't be registered anywhere in the mfd.

"eat this organ to get a permanent agility boost."
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