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Name the default melee weapon in System Shock:

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Topic Summary

Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 15. October 2024, 14:01:01 »

@Olfred can you take a quick look at the attached object please? something wonky might be going on with the top surface (unusual pattern with texture filtering disabled, but not for everyone, it seems).
[RECCOUNT.BIN expired]
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 13. July 2024, 12:20:29 »

I'll be back in about 3-4 weeks, then I'll take a jab at it.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 12. May 2024, 23:17:09 »

might as well bump the laspistol too. the more I look at it, the worse it gets.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 11. May 2024, 21:05:14 »

I've added another request to the first post. In rec2.mis, the wall that explodes (#1878, recwall.bin) is very obviously an object, due to the lo-fi vertex lighting. Would definitely benefit from surface subdivision.

How it looks currently:



How lightmapped terrain would look here:

Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 24. January 2024, 15:08:15 »

well, yes?

anyway, it's still much easier to tell someone to go update the(ir already loaded) FixedObj mod than point them to a file download buried in this topic (and explain which file goes where) if a certain fixed model is needed to fix something.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 23. January 2024, 01:40:08 »

The entire point of integrating Fixed Objects into SCP and SHTUP is so users don't have to keep track of yet another mod.

This is the reason why you should only install Fixed Objects if you suffer from uncontrollable twitchy OCD spasms when you don't have the latest latest latest versions of everything.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 21. January 2024, 16:15:17 »

Quote by JDoran:
Will these fixes be added to SCP in a new beta, or the final release of SCP version 5 (or SCP version 0.5, whichever it is)?
new release of Fixed Objects with the generator and pistol soonish, probably. and this is the reason why you should still load Fixed Objects even if you have SCP - the time periods where they are in sync (making the objects redundant) are relatively short.
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 21. January 2024, 15:53:26 »

I'll take a look if I can modify something together when I get some time again.
Posted by: JDoran
« on: 21. January 2024, 15:52:58 »

Will these fixes be added to SCP in a new beta, or the final release of SCP version 5 (or SCP version 0.5, whichever it is)?
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 21. January 2024, 15:08:55 »

necessary no, fun, yes. besides, we like our vanilla resources.
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 21. January 2024, 14:51:13 »

Oh, I totally missed the release of beta5. You could have nagged me a bit more about it if it was that iminent.

Is it really necessary to modify the original model when there already is a pretty good replacement available?
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 21. January 2024, 10:34:46 »

generator good to go, thanks.

pistol texture looks ok, but now that there is no rush anymore, maybe I'll just wait and see whether you can do something about the missing trigger and oddly rotated grip (see the lame mockup).
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 21. January 2024, 05:08:14 »

Sorry it took so long.

For the laser pistol. No way to fix it only in model. I gave one half of the weapon a new texture name and did a quick edit on the texture. This will likely break any mod that only updates the texture and not the model.

With the generators, I didn't check the behaviour in the actual game. So check if it looks correctly.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 25. December 2023, 00:17:56 »

one more to wrap the beta5 objects up - laspistol text is reversed. @Olfred would you kindly.

we'll talk about how the frick Goggles even holds that thing and where the trigger is sometime later. //lame mockup attached.


//aand I lied - sgen1.bin and sgen2.bin (normal and overloaded shield generator), the second model is slightly offset on the z-axis, needs to be moved up a bit so there wouldn't be a noticeable model pop/jump when the models are swapped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhv6-Tyr2ng
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Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 29. October 2023, 09:14:10 »

maybe - we'll see. I'll bother let you know, no worry.
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 28. October 2023, 23:56:07 »

If you still want any changes or need something done just tell me so.
What about the world model, should it get the same treatment? Just with non illuminated lights?
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 28. October 2023, 22:50:50 »

yes, that should do just fine - thanks.

we'll see what we can whip up with this as a base.
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 28. October 2023, 22:43:46 »

No they weren't square.

Made them square now (eyeballed, not perfect). Is this better now?
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 28. October 2023, 17:29:43 »

maybe still a bit too big. are they square?
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 28. October 2023, 17:06:41 »

I see.

Is this to your liking?
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Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 28. October 2023, 16:46:25 »

well the texture would have to be edited, but once it is, we technically can, by swapping the models. that's what the current fusion cannon does.

the lights, once there, can be changed easily by hexediting the model.
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 28. October 2023, 16:43:15 »

Can you change a texture with ingame magic?
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 28. October 2023, 16:38:53 »

sure - all I'm thinking here for now is that there is a lot of room on that weapon's body, might as well use it for something.

either way, as long as Olfred places properly sized lights there somewhere, we can then change them to whatever.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 28. October 2023, 16:34:16 »

Since stasis shots are already color coded, just maybe make the light color match the shot color?
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 28. October 2023, 10:22:29 »

woah didn't expect a model right away. alright then, lets see where this goes - I'm thinking mirroring the current fusion cannon (in normal mode), which is orange and green, not blinking. also this is supposed to be fairly subtle, so the lights would be better off (much) smaller (just like on the cannon). thanks as always.

also (as I'm actually not too amazing at this) the light placement is open to discussion, if someone thinks they should be slapped somewhere else.. and maybe they should be on a black background/slab (to again, mirror the fusion cannon //yeah, they probably should, they look a bit odd when placed on the chassis just like that. hmm, maybe editing the underlying texture could do the trick. we'll see).
[fusionlights.PNG expired]
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Posted by: Olfred
« on: 27. October 2023, 23:51:36 »

not very difficult
It's or_ and green_ (strangely enough or_ is missing a counterpart)
I can change it to anything you want
[sfg_h.bin expired]
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 27. October 2023, 18:50:31 »

@Olfred how difficult would it be to put some of those blinking lights (just colored squares really) onto the SFG hand model?
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Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 28. September 2023, 01:39:52 »

I'd say the best approach to the 8-unit ladder issue would be to overwrite the vanilla model with the one that fixes the offset rails but maintains the oddball 7-point-whatever stack spacing, then include the exactly 8 units ladder model in the resource package so it can be selectively swapped out by anyone who really feels like manually fixing ladder stacks.
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 28. September 2023, 00:26:57 »

Ah, thanks for confirming that. As I'm using a Blender add-on to create the bin files I don't have the faces optimised away.
I tried to seperate a model in segments but didn't really manage to get the position ingame right so it does get two lights.
But I'm a noob when it comes to the ShockEd, I don't even know how to get a new light in there.
Posted by: Nameless Voice
« on: 28. September 2023, 00:12:03 »

Yes, the engine uses vertex lighting.  You can make the lighting look better for large areas by subdividing surfaces (though the BSP optimiser might well optimise them away if you're not careful.)
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 27. September 2023, 23:47:55 »

As promised to complete the set, here's the broken ladder. I slightly altered the geometry so it looks better.

How is the lighting of objects handled again? I remember there was some testing with the teeth. As far as I can remember the engine does vertex lighting. Is there some kind of foolproof way to test this out on a model how a light will affect it?
I tried testing around a bit but I might have used it with the wrong light as I couldn't really achieve what I wanted to test out (a model receiving different coloured lights)
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 25. September 2023, 21:26:22 »

arrived to the same conclusion - EX and lets fix the maps accordingly. path of the least pain.
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 25. September 2023, 20:08:53 »

So I've checked a few maps and the conclusion is, there is no consistency.
In most cases the ladders are arranged according to their name suggested size, so you have a gap in the ladder.
Sometimes the ladders are shoved into each other so you don't have the exacpt spacing.
Every now and then the x/y values don't align with stacked ladders, so even if the z matches, you still see the connection point.

My conclusion would be to use the exact models for 4 and 16 as they are mostly stacked together, along with the 2 size one.
Didn't come across any 8 size ladder which was stacked. But I didn't check all the maps. The size of that ladder is off by the most. I have no idea what would be the best course of action for it. I guess it depends on how it would look like in the map.

Nevertheless, the ladders are the usual screwed up ness in model and in the map, so no matter how much I would tweak the models, there would always come the map problems. So the map needs to be touched anyway. But with the right model it could be minimized.

And again, if there are any wishes like a shifted position or a specific size, that's no big deal to change.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 25. September 2023, 18:06:47 »

type
hilight_obj_type ladders
into the Shocked command window and hit enter, all ladders will be hilighted blue.

Posted by: Olfred
« on: 25. September 2023, 16:36:34 »

So I just checked that ladder, and the one that comes after that (523) with a 16, 4 and 2 stacked. I noticed that in this two instances the ladders are correctly spaced so that the ex model would fit perfectly. The error in visuals that pops up is due to the x/y positions not being correctly aligned.
The ex models do have a different "floor me" point compared to the originals, but I could address that if necessary.

Is there some way I can search for object instances so I can check other ladders as well? 
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 25. September 2023, 07:58:22 »

rick1 obj 167 for example, it's in the starting room.
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 24. September 2023, 23:50:28 »

Could you give me some pointers where these ladders are stacked ingame? Best something I can use the jump to.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 24. September 2023, 22:48:44 »

The fixed ricklad8.bin floors differently because the vanilla version has a rail on one side lower than the rail on the other side. In the fixed version both rails are the same height, but each rail is still essentially the same length. And my point wasn't that they both floor the same (obviously they don't), but that the vanilla model was also an oddball height.

A replacement that significantly changes the height of the ladder (e.g. going from 7.6 units high to 8 units high) isn't a replacement, it's essentially a new, different asset.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 24. September 2023, 22:07:11 »

hmm.. no, rick1 obj 167 (ricklad6.bin) vanilla floored will give it a Z coord of -18.995, with the LH model it's -19.011 *explosion*. the ex model is -19.00 *head reconstitutes*.

agreed that drop in replacements = good, but this is something you will be stacking up, and Lego blocks are better off having dimensions that allow doing that without crying too much.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 24. September 2023, 21:46:46 »

Quote by voodoo47:
took a look at the ladders, LH makes my head explode as it results in a non-round Z-coordinate number when floored so definitely not,
So just like the vanilla Rick Ladder 8 then. Suitability for being a drop-in replacement without having to move things around is supposed to be the Number One priority.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 24. September 2023, 21:06:28 »

well, feel free if you want, but we probably would have to adjust the concretes no matter the model, and if we already are doing that, then we might as well just go with exact and do it right.
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 24. September 2023, 20:34:18 »

Hmmm, that's strange, except for the EX models, I've used the same bounding box as the original one. So in theory they should all have the same value when floored. I guess I could fiddle around with the export settings a bit and set another point as origin.
I can still shift a ladder up an down position wise if needed. The test should be more about which is the best length to go forward with as to achieve a non map fiddle way.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 24. September 2023, 18:01:26 »

took a look at the ladders, LH makes my head explode as it results in a non-round Z-coordinate number when floored so definitely not, H and L are kind of choose your poison, so I would say lets go with EX and just bite the bullet and adjust the concretes accordingly where necessary. least potential to bite us back down the pipeline, I think.

SCP (potentially SHTUP) only object, of course.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 22. September 2023, 22:16:30 »

Dang it, I need to update the first post and check the SCP files.
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 22. September 2023, 22:02:01 »

Here's the mirrored console. As there is text on the texture I've made a second model which uses the name M13L for the texture.

Cans have already been fixed here.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 22. September 2023, 15:19:59 »

Sure, that guy is console.bin. Though all its screens would have to be un-mirrored so their text wouldn't appear backwards when using SHTUP.

Speaking of backwards textures, I could have sworn this had already been fixed years ago, but the vanilla soda pack model (cans.bin) has its texture backwards on half its sides:



Posted by: Olfred
« on: 22. September 2023, 10:08:04 »

That's like two clicks.
Just tell me the model name.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 22. September 2023, 02:56:11 »

Oh boy, we've got some testing to do.

On another topic, just asking here, how much of a pain in the ass is it to mirror a model? I've often thought it would be handy to have a flipped version of this guy:

Posted by: Olfred
« on: 21. September 2023, 21:17:21 »

The whole geometry was a mess so I created a whole new one.
For the steps I gave them an even spacing, in the original models they are kinda somewhere. I can also adjust the steps to be more like the original if wanted. See the attached image, orange is the new model, black is the original.

The models have several low/high spots (at the top and bottom) so I created a number of models so you can try out which one works the best. I can still do adjustments if need. I also created a model for each size that is an exact fit the size it should have.
I've added letters to the end of each model name to better distinguish them.
ex - exact size as name suggest
l - take the two lowest spots.
h - take the two highest spots.
lh - highest spot on bottom and lowest on top.

low/high comparing the two bars potruding the ladder, not after the world orientation.

Tell me which models are the winners for you, please.

I'll do the RICKLADB.bin with the updated geometry after your feedback.
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 20. September 2023, 15:32:28 »

Oh boy, I just took a look in Blender, and yeah, they are messed up.
My favorite is the built in overlap on ricklad4.

I'll see when I get some time on my hand that I will properly address the issues at hand.
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