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System Shock takes place on a space station named ...:

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Topic Summary

Posted by: JDoran
« on: 04. January 2025, 13:45:10 »

Quote by ZylonBane:
Okay, how about these. Note that I've deliberately tried to keep these as short as possible because HUD message text is only visible for a few seconds, and because the longer any text is, the more likely people won't even bother reading it.

Navy: "Enlist in the Navy to focus on technical skills."
Marines: "Enlist in the Marines to focus on weapon skills."
OSA: "Enlist in the OSA to focus on psionic skills. Not recommended for inexperienced players."

I think this is great. Regarding Sarge945's  worry that it will break immersion, I don't think that's a consideration, and even if it was, then this takes place before the game proper, so it won't effect the game experience, in my opinion.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 04. January 2025, 02:54:19 »

The career sequence on the space station pops up which stats you gain from each choice, so that immersion-breaking train left the station 25 years ago. The good news is that having text pop up when you approach a decision door is established UI precedent.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 04. January 2025, 02:19:41 »

Quote by ZylonBane:
I've seen more than a few first-time SS2 players pick OSA because of course psi powers are like so totally cool man, and subsequently have a terrible time. I wonder if it would be overkill to, when players approach the OSA tunnel, pop up an onscreen message something like "Warning, not recommended for inexperienced players."

Maybe even expand this to a popup for every service, since this area can be frustratingly cryptic for first-time players. Like if you approach the Navy tunnel, you'd get something like "Enlist in the Navy for a career focused on technical skills." Marines would get "Enlist in the Marines for a career focused on weapons." or whatever. Sure this sort of thing seems obvious to us, but at this point the game hasn't straight up said it, and character creation is the last place you want to be coy with the player.

I feel like the 3 preceeding training booths already explain in detail what each branch of service does, and having messages pop up in the middle of these hallways seems like it would be very intrusive.

If you REALLY want to do this, you can make it more immersive by putting one of the tutorial computers on the wall in the hallway leading to the career selection, with text like:

"Here, you will need to select a branch of service. This choice is permanent and cannot be undone.

Your branch of service will determine what choices you are offered over the next 4 years, however anyone is free to pursue any skills they wish once training is complete.

The Marines are focused on weapon skills, the Navy are focused on Technical skills, and the OSA is focused on psionics.

OSA is not recommended for first time players!"
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 03. January 2025, 20:09:07 »

Okay, how about these. Note that I've deliberately tried to keep these as short as possible because HUD message text is only visible for a few seconds, and because the longer any text is, the more likely people won't even bother reading it.

Navy: "Enlist in the Navy to focus on technical skills."
Marines: "Enlist in the Marines to focus on weapon skills."
OSA: "Enlist in the OSA to focus on psionic skills. Not recommended for inexperienced players."
Posted by: JDoran
« on: 02. January 2025, 18:35:57 »

That's a good idea, ZB.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 02. January 2025, 07:16:23 »

I'm in.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 02. January 2025, 06:28:33 »

I've seen more than a few first-time SS2 players pick OSA because of course psi powers are like so totally cool man, and subsequently have a terrible time. I wonder if it would be overkill to, when players approach the OSA tunnel, pop up an onscreen message something like "Warning, not recommended for inexperienced players."

Maybe even expand this to a popup for every service, since this area can be frustratingly cryptic for first-time players. Like if you approach the Navy tunnel, you'd get something like "Enlist in the Navy for a career focused on technical skills." Marines would get "Enlist in the Marines for a career focused on weapons." or whatever. Sure this sort of thing seems obvious to us, but at this point the game hasn't straight up said it, and character creation is the last place you want to be coy with the player.
Posted by: JhonnyG
« on: 27. December 2024, 17:46:26 »

Quote by voodoo47:
just for fun, try to edit scpScript.nut, find !ShockGame.CheckLocked and delete the !, save and see whether that gets the hatch going again.
Yup. This make the hatch fully functional again. Also fixed a small bug with droids not popping out of their casket in eng2.

Quote by ZylonBane:
For the love of god.

There is no issue. The script sent was ONLY for testing the invisibility fix, not playing the entire game.
Well, I only did the Von Braun part. Wanted to test it against the most notorious stalkers in hydro and rec. At least now we know it works ^^
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 27. December 2024, 17:30:09 »

For the love of god.

There is no issue. The script sent was ONLY for testing the invisibility fix, not playing the entire game.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 27. December 2024, 14:48:52 »

ok, can reproduce the hatch issue from your save, I'm almost sure it's happening because you have what technically is SCPb7 script but your eng1 map is still SCPb6.

do not share that script for obvious reasons.


just for fun, try to edit scpScript.nut, find !ShockGame.CheckLocked and delete the !, save and see whether that gets the hatch going again.
Posted by: JhonnyG
« on: 27. December 2024, 12:33:17 »

sarge945Could it have something to do with Rebirth? I have noticed assassins can be very glitchy to hit in melee. Dunno if anyone else has experienced this issue.
Posted by: JhonnyG
« on: 27. December 2024, 12:21:04 »

None of the usual tricks worked. Got past the hatch by restoring the original file. Then reapplying the new one again afterward.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 27. December 2024, 12:06:49 »

Quote by JhonnyG:
Only bug I noticed is that the hatch leading to the core in eng1 doesn't work while running this new script? As in, the buttons does nothing and the hatch won't open.
unable to replicate. a save?
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 26. December 2024, 23:31:31 »

My experiences with the Randomiser have taught me that spawning an enemy in the ground will make them "pop out" into valid space in the map.

I'm very very surprised that didn't happen.
Posted by: JhonnyG
« on: 26. December 2024, 23:10:43 »

The new script package you sent over seem to have fixed the stalking issue. Enemies that tended to latch on, now properly ignore the player when under influence of psi invisibility or the security expert. Tried to provoke various enemies repeatedly by breaking invisibility, getting spotted, then turning invisible again, and didn't noticed any issues with their behavior. Every AI seem perfectly able to engage and disengage in a manner you would expect them to behave. Overall a vast gameplay improvement in my opinion.
Only bug I noticed is that the hatch leading to the core in eng1 doesn't work while running this new script? As in, the buttons does nothing and the hatch won't open.

Regarding ops4 red assassin 436 spawning halfway into the ground. I have tried to provoke and replicate this during many playthroughs since then, but have been unable to so. Can only assume it was a freak glitch like with the monkey. So sorry about the false report.
Posted by: JhonnyG
« on: 23. December 2024, 17:00:18 »

ZylonBane Sorry for the late reply, just discovered it in my mailbox. I'll do a proper test and report back.

Also, a marry christmas to you all =)
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 22. December 2024, 01:02:21 »

JhonnyG, a test script package has been sent to your email address to see if it resolves the issue with AIs following you around while invisible.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 19. December 2024, 16:15:14 »

well, we've been doing this for a while or two.
Posted by: JhonnyG
« on: 19. December 2024, 16:13:07 »

Dark, and not a SCP issue. Noted. I'm actually relieved you guys were able to debug this glitch. It was driving me insane trying to figure out how I could have f'ed up the installation in some way ^^
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 19. December 2024, 14:16:16 »

Yes, I've confirmed in game mode and DromEd that monkey 296 has no physics in that save, though it seems slightly random. Quicksaving and reloading restores its physics.

On initial load the monkey is hovering in midair near a wall, so this is indeed probably just a result of a glitchy pathfinding/physics interaction. The only odd thing I noticed in its physics props was that its Gravity % had somehow changed to 0.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 19. December 2024, 12:12:23 »

found it - it's the old "if a creature collides with the terrain in an unusual way, its physics might get deactivated" bug. it's rare, nothing can be done about it, and it should go away upon level reload (map change).

just for the record, this is Dark being Dark, not SCP uhh, SCPeeing.
Posted by: JhonnyG
« on: 19. December 2024, 10:19:10 »

voodoo47That's odd. I have tested the save in every single way I could think of.. Deleted all save files, disabled all mods but SCP6, restored my cam.cfg, tried updating SS2tool, launching through both Steam and mod manager etc. And no matter what, that monkey in ICU (the first irradiated area at the end of the hallway) has no collision detection. Can't hit it and is able to run right through it every time. It's only this once  I have encountered the bug over four games since installing SCP.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 17. December 2024, 22:12:44 »

nope, killed it just fine. are you able to replicate?

also, invulnerable how? infinite hitpoints? cannot hit at all because no physics? or?
Posted by: JhonnyG
« on: 17. December 2024, 21:55:33 »

voodoo47 Save is in early medsci2. The monkey in the radiated ICU is the invulnerable one.
[nohit_monkey.zip expired]
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 17. December 2024, 18:20:01 »

Quote by sarge945:
RSD has a feature where Psi Teleport will confuse enemies (as seen here), maybe SCP should think about doing something similar when you hack security.
Breaking AI awareness links once is easy. Removing the ability of specific AIs to hear, then restoring it, reliably, is hard.

Unlike the vision modifiers that only affect AI's ability to see the player, there are no equivalent modifiers for hearing, so the only way to make an AI not hear the player is to make them not hear anything.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 17. December 2024, 17:33:05 »

yes. attach the zipped save if you can.
Posted by: JhonnyG
« on: 17. December 2024, 17:20:33 »

voodoo47I do have a save with an invulnerable monkey though. It happened during testing with the latest SS2tool and SCP6. Interested?
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 17. December 2024, 16:55:50 »

Quote by JhonnyG:
The thing is they'll stalk you through an entire map if their pathing allows it. With psi invisibility you can quickly de-cloak to make them return to their original position. With a 4 minute security hack that's somewhat difficult.

RSD has a feature where Psi Teleport will confuse enemies (as seen here), maybe SCP should think about doing something similar when you hack security.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 17. December 2024, 16:31:51 »

you very bad man. welp, I'll keep my eye on this when watching LPs.
Posted by: JhonnyG
« on: 17. December 2024, 16:29:08 »

My bad. Forgot to mention that I'm playing with the latest SCP Beta 6.

Quote by ZylonBane:
It only makes "mobs" blind, not deaf. They can still hear you stomping around.
The thing is they'll stalk you through an entire map if their pathing allows it. With psi invisibility you can quickly de-cloak to make them return to their original position. With a 4 minute security hack that's somewhat difficult.

Quote by voodoo47:
eng1 extra spawning - is actually milder than in b5, courtesy of the eco ubercharge bug being fixed now. how you got 7 rumblers is beyond me, unless you are just camping there waiting for them to spawn. save? 
Sorry, don't have a save prior to that encounter anymore. And wasn't even camping. Mobs just respawned as fast as I could kill them  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 16. December 2024, 20:27:08 »

Quote by JhonnyG:
OS-UP Security Expert: Well, the "vanilla" bug of mobs following the player around during invisibility is kinda amplified with this new OS upgrade.
It only makes "mobs" blind, not deaf. They can still hear you stomping around.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 16. December 2024, 19:47:56 »

rec2 - afaik there is no cue, you trigger the tripwire and they will come to make your life difficult.
eng1 extra spawning - is actually milder than in b5, courtesy of the eco ubercharge bug being fixed now. how you got 7 rumblers is beyond me, unless you are just camping there waiting for them to spawn. save?
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 16. December 2024, 19:34:13 »

Are you playing with the current version of SCP?
Posted by: JhonnyG
« on: 16. December 2024, 18:52:14 »

A bit of feedback on some oddities I found in-game. I'm running the Steam version with SS2Tool v6.1.1.8 btw..

Rec2 Garden: The grenadier and baby arachnid ambush that is triggered once you open the last door in the garden maintenance tunnels, doesn't have any sound cues at all. Can't hear neither of them until the hybrid starts lobbing grenades.

Eng1 Core Control: Spawn rate is way to excessive in this area during the mission to overload the engine core. When standing right in front of the core door, you don't even have time to look up the keycode before a new enemy spawns behind you. Ended up killing 7 rumblers and 5 assassins before I managed to find a spot that prohibited them from spawning. Also, this is a very small secluded area. How do they keep getting up here when there's only one tiny elevator!? ;)

Ops4 red assassin 436: If you fight/die to 436 on one of slopes leading to the lower levels, then reload a save right before the encounter triggers, 436 may spawn halfway into the ground with only the torso visible and move at severely reduced speed. Had some success replicating this bug. More testing needed though.

OS-UP Security Expert: Well, the "vanilla" bug of mobs following the player around during invisibility is kinda amplified with this new OS upgrade. And giving how long a security hack can last, this new Security Expert upgrade can lead to some very annoying gameplay behavior. Like an army of protocol droids following you around in cargo bays and glitching out the elevators, multiple maintenance bots in hydro trying to hump you and block everything, inability to explore certain areas in peace as certain triggered robots won't stop following, etc..
The change is very cool and may even be a bit overpowered. But unless you can fix this invisibility bug (which also affect psi users), then I would recommend scrapping this new mechanic. As it has been more trouble than worth in my opinion.

Cyber Affinity: Vanilla bug. Compared to the other psi stat boosters, CA only last for half the advertised duration. As in, base duration is actually 1:00 minute. And the duration is only extended by 0:30 minutes per psi. It also seem to be the only stat boosted without any voiceover?

Then there's something about jumping into the brain of the many and climbing the glass wall to have reavers kill it.. But I'm still testing that stuff out.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 16. December 2024, 00:03:19 »

Not to mention you have "12 Nanites used in reconstruction" rather than "12 Nanites used for reconstruction", so the game already has a precedent that nanites are being used directly, not exchanged for some kind of good/service.

Except for Replicators.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 15. December 2024, 09:23:39 »

technically, A is what happened - pretty much what NV said, the matter was converted into the nanites, it wasn't taken into storage while nanites were dispensed to compensate.
Posted by: Nameless Voice
« on: 14. December 2024, 23:35:14 »

I'd say that A. implies that you turned the ammo into nanites, while B. implies you were paid that many nanites as a reward for recycling.


But both ways still work.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 14. December 2024, 22:45:28 »

A question for the native English speakers. Which phrasing sounds more natural?

A. "Standard bullets recycled into 12 nanites."
B. "Standard bullets recycled for 12 nanites."

Where the meaning is "Thing got recycled, and this is how many nanites you gained."
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 10. December 2024, 17:45:41 »

would be a nice addition the SS2 Damage Numbers mod, I think.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 10. December 2024, 17:39:36 »

I'm not sure that's possible. A lot of the stasis freeze stuff is handled by engine code. When an AI receives a new stim with the Freeze AI effect set it just replaces the duration instead of adding it.

Maybe some hackery could be added to record how many stasis shots an AI has been hit by, then re-freeze the AI when the previous shot wears off.

Related to the topic, it might be possible to make AIs display how much stasis time they have remaining in their bracket text.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 10. December 2024, 17:24:01 »

ooh absolutely in favor of stasis time stacking, if that's on the table. the stasis trap mod actually already does this - the deployed trap will keep stimming the trapped AIs until it expires.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 10. December 2024, 16:52:35 »

So that's a vote in favor of stasis scaling. Good feedback.

Unfortunately, stasis time only goes up by 1.2 seconds per level of Heavy, which is pointlessly negligible. Even Sharpshooter only increases the time by less than 2 seconds at max level, for a stasis time from a completely maxed-out character and weapon of 13⅓ seconds. At maxed everything I'd expect at least double that.

Since stasis time, unlike damage effects, doesn't stack, per-shot efficacy is much more important than with the damage-dealing weapons. This is also why the modification to increase shot speed is basically useless. Most enemies move so slowly and evade so little that increased shot speed provides no advantage, and rapid-firing stasis at the same target provides no advantage either.
Posted by: RoSoDude
« on: 10. December 2024, 12:15:38 »

Also, regarding Psi Stim vulnerability, the only thing in the entire game that uses that damage type is the psi mine, and its absence in the Human Vulnerability stim receptrons is completely logical -- the player should not be taking damage from their own psionic detonations. They're projected from their own damn mind! Why would the soldier, having mastered one of the most advanced psionic techniques known to man, deal psychic damage to themselves? Let alone from a game balance perspective (tier 5 skills are hardly worth the upgrade cost), which is apparently only a tertiary consideration.

Please do not add psi mine vulnerability to the player just because Half-Human = 1/2*Human. Immersive game design is not about balancing a math equation. Irrational made plenty of errors and oversights, but making the player immune to a damage type that affects enemies was not one of them.
Posted by: RoSoDude
« on: 10. December 2024, 11:53:39 »

Quote by ZylonBane:
Anyway, moving along... the Stasis Field Generator is the only weapon that the effectiveness doesn't scale with the player's skill. Should it? It would be fairly easy to make the stun time increase with the player's Heavy stat.

The Stasis Field Generator's stun time literally does already scale with the Heavy stat, and has since vanilla. It also scales with Sharpshooter and weapon mods. Stasis is a stim like any other. I know no one uses this weapon, but I'm shocked you didn't already know this.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 09. December 2024, 08:47:15 »

yes, I don't think there is anything that shouldn't be done to boost its (still somewhat debatable) usefulness.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 09. December 2024, 00:08:46 »

Psi reaver projectiles are Anti-Human, which humans have a 400% vulnerability against. That seems excessive, but oh well.

Oh lord, I just noticed that the Human Vulnerability metaprop doesn't even list Psi vulnerability. Half-Mechanical and Half-Annelid DO have Psi vulnerability. That makes no damn sense.

Anyway, moving along... the Stasis Field Generator is the only weapon that the effectiveness doesn't scale with the player's skill. Should it? It would be fairly easy to make the stun time increase with the player's Heavy stat.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 08. December 2024, 17:23:56 »

Quote by ZylonBane:
Psionic detonation protection has been added to the psi shield powers since in vanilla only psi energy reflection had it. I thought about adding this protection to wormskin armor too, but didn't want to buff it too much. Well, it hardly matters either way since players can't set off psi mines. The only way you can take psi damage is by being near a psi mine when an AI sets it off. Maybe in early development more attacks used the psi damage type.

I'm surprised psi reavers don't use it
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 07. December 2024, 21:26:00 »

Here's where armor stands currently, summarizing all ADaOB and SCP changes from vanilla. The hazard suit and wormskin armor have been beefed up to encourage players to maybe actually use them.

Psionic detonation protection has been added to the psi shield powers since in vanilla only psi energy reflection had it. I thought about adding this protection to wormskin armor too, but didn't want to buff it too much. Well, it hardly matters either way since players can't set off psi mines. The only way you can take psi damage is by being near a psi mine when an AI sets it off. Maybe in early development more attacks used the psi damage type.

  • All armors: Added missing protection from Electricity damage (dealt by maintenance droid shots and electrical sparks).
  • Hazard Suit
    • Increased toxin and radiation protection from 75% to 80%.
    • As per the in-game description, added protection from energy damage (30%).
    • Added 30% protection from annelid bites.
    • Added full protection from worm piles.
  • WormSkin Armor
    • Increased combat damage protection from 20% to 30%.
    • Increased toxin and radiation protection from 30% to 40%.
  • Psycho-Reflective Screen
    • Removed erroneous protection from fall damage.
    • Added full protection from psi mines.
  • Psycho-Reflective Aura
    • Added full protection from psi mines.
  • Energy Reflection
    • Added protection from roving cyberspace objects in SHODAN level.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 05. December 2024, 16:52:25 »

Armor shouldn't protect against falling, even magical armor.

Fall Damage already scales with agility. If I wanted to accommodate that I'd instead make the wormskin give agility, as a "fast boy armor" that's weak but swift. But even then I prefer RSD's method of armor encumbrance.

I feel like electricity should be made to do exactly the same as energy. Having two different very similar damage types is very very confusing, but making them identical allows players to essentially use them interchangeably.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 05. December 2024, 12:26:07 »

ugh, that's a lot to untangle;

-armor protecting against falling damage: no
-annelids getting hurt by maintenance droids: yes (mods that allow the player to make the bots friendly)
-wormskin extra protection against electro: yes (is still kind of bleh, would like to see people use it more)
-wormskin being extra vulnerable to anti flesh: no (let's not make it more bleh)
-standard armors protecting against electro: no
-psi shields protecting against falling damage: maybe (it's magic, so no need for logic here, whatever we decide is fun)

also, I'm ok with the current changes inherited from ADaoB.
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