I will be, next playthrough.
It has to be at least a little to justify all those Cybermodules
oh yes, we do get this complaint every five years or so, never really understood why a few people think this way but some do. so yes, if multiple mods modify the same thing, whatever has the position closest to the top of the list will end up shown in the game.
Regarding the arguments on vanilla gameplay, I don't really understand why one would go through so much effort to change how the game mechanics fundamentally function. Do you not like the game for what it is?
Also essentially all first person shooters well into the 2010's (with few exceptions) could basically be "cheesed" by two basic tactics: running backwards down a hallway shooting while an overly aggressive enemy attempts to hit you with a melee attack or by circle straffing while shooting an enemy with a ranged attack. This was countered in the early days by the use of hit scan which I've seen more complaints about being "cheap' than anything else. Later games (once the computational capabilities of hardware improved) were programmed with better AI which lead to enemies falling back or flanking but this could more often than not be addressed by either waiting the enemy out or side step shooting around a corner. Human players are resourceful and will always find ways to exploit enemy AI tendencies one way or another.
oh yes, we do get this complaint every five years or so, never really understood why a few people think this way but some do. so yes, if multiple mods modify the same thing, whatever has the position closest to the top of the list will end up shown in the game.Now I know that in dark mod manager this is load PRIORITY and not load ORDER
ok, nope, that "Too many mods active or paused" thing is random, was able to replicate and it has nothing to do with foldername lengths or anything, it just comes and goes, or so it would seem.
also, migraine cyberspace is a level texture mod, so yeah, if you have multiple loaded (Four Hundred), then you will have to give it a higher priority, I thought that was clear.
Standard Weapons?
The Assault Rifle is hands-down the best weapon in Vanilla. It's still really good even after being nerfed by ss2tool and SCP, is available the earliest of all the 6-skill weapons, and has the most ammo readily available and the most enemy types it can damage.
I remember running through BotM two-shotting Rumblers with anti-personnel rounds. It's definitely overpowered
The balance issues suck in SS2 but the best part about that is nothing is notably overpowered.
SS2 is a game where:
- Every single guide recommends a handful of skills, because the rest are borderline useless.
- Of the skills that are useful, most of their utility is front-loaded (Research, Modify, Hack), and higher level investment is always never worth it. In the case of Modify, the standard tactic is to get Modify to the level needed to get to weapon mod 1, then use a FE device to get to level 2, rendering high level Modify investment almost completely worthless. 1 point of Research (which is literally required) is enough to get a 10% damage bonus against every enemy, which is super powerful compared to the other benefits given by the Research skill.
- Every melee enemy can be instantly rendered harmless by backpedalling (including rumblers!!!!). You may have assault rifles, fusion cannons, and explosive grenades, but the S key remains your most effective weapon.
- The Security system mechanics are laughable, cameras are extremely easy to bypass, it's typical for even an inexperienced player to go through the whole game without ever setting off a single alarm. I have seen multiple lets-plays by fresh, new players who set off the alarm once in MedSci before they understand the mechanics, and then never ever set it off again because it's so easy and so quick to destroy cameras. The security mechanics might as well not exist. Even Bioshock did better here, because as terrible as the pipe-mania hacking minigame is, at least you couldn't just destroy all of the cameras with one easy, simple pistol shot.
- Psionics is a complete mess. Psi Overloading only applies to a handful of skills, a number of psi skills are almost completely useless (alarms time out faster), others have weird/wacky undocumented interactions (pyro field making you immune to incendiary damage), some are far too strong to actually be useful and are just a waste of psi points (advanced healing), and some really should be useful but are hamstrung by bad map design or countered by other mechanics (why use psi pull when you can shoot down most objects?).
- Some OS Upgrades are VERY good. Others are laughably bad. SCP already addresses this issue, so I know you agree with me on this one.
- Mechanics are not particularly well explained and constantly trip up new players (Repair vs Maintenance, for instance)
- Because of the above issues, and many others, Impossible difficulty isn't particularly difficult, and most veteran players already play on Impossible and still find the game not particularly difficult because it's so exploitable. Hybrids can boop you in 1 hit? Bro just backpedal. Everything costs lots of CMs? Just don't buy the crap skills. By the time you get up to Command, the difficulty essentially plateaus and the rest of the game is piss easy, but even before that point the game is pretty easy after the cargo bays, which is the hardest part of the entire game because it's a gauntlet that you will likely face before your overpowered min-max build is really online.
SS2 is a very good game in terms of it's atmosphere and what it tried to do at the time. Making an FPS-RPG hybrid with that level of depth is downright impressive. But the implementation absolutely sucked. SCP fixes some of these issues, but mods like Repairman and RSD are needed to fix most of the rest. At that point, SS2 becomes far less cheesable and is much, much better than the out of box experience, ESPECIALLY for veteran players who are probably so familiar with how exploitable the game is at this point that they likely do entire playthroughs without needing to have a single independent thought, because the game is so completely rote because it's so utterly broken in it's fundamental design. Unfortunately, by deluding themselves into thinking the gameplay is actually excellent and all criticism is just mindless whining from clueless call of duty players, a lot of veteran players are missing out on an actually good modded SS2 experience that makes them think and strategise and use their brain the way the game likely did the first time they played. Their bias is literally preventing them from having a more fun experience.
If you think this criticising the vanilla gameplay is "hall of shame" worthy, then I'm sorry but you're just plain wrong. SCP has had to fix a lot of the vanilla design issues, but even then, it's only a drop in the bucket towards fixing everything. Other mods are required to really fix all of the problems and make the game fun/interesting again for people who have already "solved it".
I guess this is something to do with the max length of the mod paths, which ss2bmm usually warns about, but maybe not DMM.
try the dmm.exe from here (which one are you using right now btw?) and see what happens.
//ok, random idea, try to shorten the SS2_Vaxquis_VintageSongRemake and SS2_DeNoised_CutscenesV1 foldernames (SS2_Vaxquis and SS2_DeNoised for example).
try the dmm.exe from here (which one are you using right now btw?) and see what happens.There is a warning stating "Too many mods active or paused" in the log.
I don't know. I just checked the thread for the mod and the complete version it mentions the inclusion of the psiamp and "not needing anything else". https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?wap2;topic=691
Now that's a hall of shame quote right there.
I see no reason why any of those mods shouldn't load. anything unusual in the logs? started a completely new game?
Now that's a hall of shame quote right there.The vanilla gameplay isn't that good, though.
ah, didn't answer that last question - so yes, once you configure your mods, there is no need to launch the manager again unless you want to change your mod loadout, so whatever is enabled, stays enabled, and it doesn't matter whether you run the game via ss2.exe, steam shortcut or whatever.
Tacticool does not include Rocketman's weapons (too different), or JMP guns (would look weird if some suddenly had the extra hand models while other ones would not). using some unsanctioned modpack version?
GOG/steam build is one and the same, that's why it's called the GOG/steam build.
Except in this case, both versions of the mod have always been available from the get go, are in the same thread, and are explicitly listed as incompatible. It would be impossible to download one of them, then come back later and download the other without seeing the warning.
Most likely, you downloaded both of them at the same time, because you didn't know which version would be good to use, and then later, when it came time to activate mods, turned both of them on thinking they were separate mods. I've definitely done that and it's an understandable mistake.
But yes, my advice to you is to just ignore ZB. Some people are just utterly incapable of human contact, and that's fine.
I know mine were definitely wrong when I first wrote the guide, so I think the GOG version and Steam version might be slightly different? Or maybe an older version of ss2tool did some shenanigans or something. Ei56t6emher way, I will leave it there for posterity. The texture filtering settings are DEFINITELY not defaults, certain people here don't like those settings and have to enforce their will in their installers (even if the game looks WAY better without texture filtering).
Wait, since when?
I understood this after voodoo's reply a day earlier. Why he felt the need to post a redundant comment in a far more obnoxious way is a mystery... I also specifically asked if any mods were unnecessary for this exact reason... I know a lot of you guys have been around here a while so you installed mods initially that have since been updated or combined with others which is perfectly fine. The only problem is that it's confusing and hard to follow without a huge time investment for those of us coming back to the game and haven't modded it before.
For what it's worth, I used your guide for the initial install. Seems to be quite comprehensive which I liked. Don't take this the wrong way but there are a few aspects which are outdated though. For example, the default settings updates are already the defaults on the current GOG version.
The "Tacticool Weapons" mod has a complete version that already includes the "rocketman" pack/"eldron psiamp"/"jmp hi-res weapons/hands" etc.
The reason I decided against your mods is because they alter the vanilla gameplay. For example the keypad "cheesing". It might be shitty for a player to sit and try infinite random combinations to crack a pin but it was initially allowed in the game. Nothing personal. I also don't find it a necessary install because I do quite thorough playthroughs so it's not something I would do anyway. I'm also just trying to get a baseline install that works to start. I can always add to it later but since load order is so important it's not the easiest process to get started with since no two lists are the same between players.
They could be better from what I can tell thus far but they aren't that bad. The way I see it is that if you're going to play with low poly models then it doesn't make much sense to play with high resolution textures as the game will be inconsistent as a whole. Like you said, it's personal preference. I doubt there are many playing a boxed copy of the game on cd-rom with era correct hardware so if it's a purist thing we're all by definition failing.
Trust me, I take ABSOLUTELY JOY in defending ZylonBane, I would rather wedge a knife into my eyeballs, but in this case he's right.
Both of those mods are different versions of the same thing. They aren't compatible. Using one will automatically invalidate the other. So it is indeed stupid/crazy to use both of them.
It's the equivalent of using a mod to make all the enemies have 1 HP while also using a mod to make all the enemies have 100 HP. Using both together would be silly because they contradict each other.
This guide has everything you need:
https://sarge945.xyz/guides/ss2-mod-guide
I get that it's up to personal preference, but I don't think most people realise just how bad the rebirth models are.
Do you have anything constructive to add or just the usual peanut gallery criticisms?
Thanks.
Where can I find a list of your mods?
I initially just used a search engine and found the newbie modding guide and went from there.
I've played through the vanilla game in the past with the blurry (standard for the era) models. Obviously the updated ones in rebirth take some creative liberties but to be fair there isn't really clean lines (especially in the facial features) to start with so this is to be expected. If I don't like it for whatever reason, I will simply disable the mod so it's not a big deal.
Yes. Just run System Shock 2.
All the mod manager does is change some config files to make the game load the mods. Those config file changes are there whether you launch the mod manager or not.
Also, yet another person returning to the game and not using any of the mods I made... *my little dark age plays in the background*
He's also using Rebirth, but SCP RealSG. Doesn't Rebirth have it's own version?
Rebirth is also cringe, please don't use it.
I just noticed this guy has BOTH Quest Note Notifier and New Quest Notifier activated. WTF?
SCP, Fixed Objects and SHTUP at the bottom always (SCP lowest, then Objects, then SHTUP). Quest notifiers pick one iirc, and that door retexture is deprecated I think, so take that off, probably - SHTUP has its own hires texture for that door which should be just fine. RealSG needs to be the Rebirth version if using Rebirth.
you need a newer version of the manager to have it recognize the two extra mods, but this actually isn't a problem, they will get loaded even if they are not recognized.
Is there a way to launch a modded version of System Shock 2 through just a shortcut without having to open blue mod manager and click the "launch game" button? Can this be done via a batch script?
That's word for word how I feel. I *detest* Discord, and I've never been able to see what advantage it gives over e-mail or traditional forums. Yet seemingly over night (it feels like) so many projects and companies and other net-related things have moved over to Discord, as though it is somehow this magnificent solution to some sort of problem that was rendering e-mails and forums unfit for purpose.
I'm very surprised that you got a response. You deserve some sort of framed certificate for that
True, but we're talking about humans here. Most of whom act stupidly, are often blind to reality, and just do whatever other people do, either because they are too stupid or lazy to think for themselves, or they just want to be the same as their friends and fit in, or are too blinkered to foresee problems and work towards a solution). I work in I.T., have done since the 1990s, and it *still* amazes me how many people, for example, believe that e-mail is secure. We are largely a species who think that a Facebook or Twitter/X post consisting of "I just ate a delicious pizza" accompanied by two misspellings and a photo of the empty pizza box is not only worthy of attention, but is also probably worth commenting positively about.
Half the world is overweight and unfit, because we don't exercise our bodies enough. Most of the world is stupid, or at least make mistakes that no one with a brain as powerful as the human brain should ever make, because we don't exercise our minds enough.
And I can't claim to be any smarter than most; I'm always telling people to back up EVERYTHING you would regret losing, and keep at least one backup away from your home (if your house burns down, then you lose the original, and any home-stored copies), but I still occasionally lose stuff because I didn't back it up (I'll do it at the later...), and at home I have hard drives full of backups (nothing too important, but I still wouldn't want to lose some of the stuff on them) with no offsite equivalents.
Just out of curiosity I sent nightdive support an email (support@nightdivestudios.com) asking when this bug was going to be fixed since it's been 4 years and they have done nothing. I received a reply the next day asking for further details as if they were completely unaware.
Discord absolutely sucks.
Email was specifically created to be THE standard method of communication on the internet. And yet nobody uses it. When we do use it, our inbox gets filled with garbage.
Any company that handles support "over discord" rather than having a simple easy email-based system doesn't deserve money in my opinion. Forcing everyone onto a closed platform made by a predatory advertising company just to get some basic support for a completely unrelated product is beyond stupid. Email is an open standard, accessible by everyone, and is much better at generating a communication trail than Discord is.
I only partially agree with this. The situation as a whole is shitty but those that find themselves in it are due to poor personal choices. When you choose to completely give up control of your data to a mega corporation to store because it's "free" or has a low monthly cost rather than buying physical storage that's on you. What's even worse is that in the long run, you'd actually save money if you just bought an additional/upgraded to a larger SSD/hard drive yourself and then you would actually own something at the end of it.
Discord is only part of the problem.
I fear for my entire generation on a more fundamental level.
We are the first generation to have our entire lives catalogued digitally. Instead of having the family photo books, or heirlooms to pass on, we instead document our lives by uploading stuff to servers. This is deeply troubling because in the vast majority of cases we don't have personal backups. In the best case, we have a resized and modified image uploaded on some website that won't be around forever and can delete our memories at any moment, and at worst we have a black hole where a site used to be and now everything is gone.
I fear that our grandchildren will ask us "What was life like in the 2020s" and we won't be able to show them, because everything will have either been stored on some website we forgot the login for years ago, be behind a paywall, or just won't exist anymore.
But Discord is the worst of the worst. As much as I despise reddit, I can at least find useful reddit posts occasionally. Sometimes I will have a weird, rare issue with a piece of software, and oftentimes an obscure Reddit result from 10 years ago has the solution. It sucks because that result will eventually disappear when Reddit eventually dies, but at least Reddit is searchable. Unless it was posted in the last week, finding something on Discord is an absolute nightmare.
If you don't have any history and are perpetually living a transient, disposable existence, then you're not living.
Discord is a reasonably-usable chat program. That's why it got popular amongst gamers at a time where there weren't many particularly good alternatives for general chat. But now it's being shoehorned into a forum/support service and it's just plain not good enough for the job. I would still hate it if it was ONLY used for chats, because so many online """"communities"""" want to waste everyone's time by having huge discord chats about absolutely nothing for hours on end, but at least that's mostly harmless to outside observers and non-participants. Forcing people onto a chat platform in order to receive basic product support is just awful for everyone involved.
Honestly I don't understand why forums mostly died out. Forums are great, especially for the kind of technical support that Discord is horrible at. Forums are extremely usable, don't demand huge amounts of time, and do just as god a job at fostering a community as Discord does. And yet people consider them "outdated" and don't use them.
Discord absolutely sucks.
Email was specifically created to be THE standard method of communication on the internet. And yet nobody uses it. When we do use it, our inbox gets filled with garbage.
Any company that handles support "over discord" rather than having a simple easy email-based system doesn't deserve money in my opinion. Forcing everyone onto a closed platform made by a predatory advertising company just to get some basic support for a completely unrelated product is beyond stupid. Email is an open standard, accessible by everyone, and is much better at generating a communication trail than Discord is.
I dont agree with a sizable portion of that, e.g double click holstering adding even more clicks to now unholster. The feature was quality of life solely to prevent missclicks, such as putting away your weapon when attempting to frob tiny buttons in the heat of combat, which had a non-negligible rate of occurrence especially in the case of some dodgy interaction collisions. Adding extra clicks for the reverse would deter me from the option, having to commit to extra clicks any time I want to draw a weapon when it's not really necessary as there's no notable conflict of function/player intent in the reverse. You're putting something IN your hand, which is actually useful as opposed to nothing. But whatever, my work has clearly outlived me, I am now irrelevant, this is your fork and time to shine. I'll go back to my corner and wish you the best, anticipating the final result.
What's even worse is that apparently the studio is/was having a tough time aquiring rights/licenses/permission to work on specific titles so Nightdive is considering going the unofficial route via community mods. However there is one catch, they want users to pay them for it... You know for the same work modders do for free in their spare time. If Nightdive can't even finish the work they start on officially sanctioned projects, who the hell would be dumb enough to expect they wouldn't just abandon a mod the minute a more lucrative contract is signed?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rziJq7btneE
I used to have high hopes for NightDive Studios. A software house that took old classic games, and updated them to run on modern systems, sometimes giving them extra functions and features, and even bringing those mostly PC-only games to console? To me, that was briliant. And they were going to be more open and conversational with their customers too.
And the games/updates/remasters that they do release are really good (at least the ones I have played, so no non-first person shooters) so fair praise to them for that. But that's where the good ends. NightDive seem to feel almost compelled to leave their games with unfixed bugs and glitches. and the company might as well not exist, as far as communicating with your customers is concerned. It's such a pity.
If anyone were to ask me now "Who is your favourite game developer", then I wouldn't have an answer, because to me (a fifty-four year old bloke, who has been video gaming since about 1980, starting with the very early arcade games such as Space invaders) the software industry has never been less interesting and less stale. So I would doubly love NightDive, for their reviving of old but classic games. But I just don't like NDS's "We're only doing it for the money' vibes.
It's cute that you still think corporate re-releases of old games are anything other than cynical cash grabs.
Starting to lose faith in nightdive. They seem to leave the games they "remaster" in various states of unfinished instead moving on to the next shiny toy that they can cash in on. The last patch was 4 years ago...
Then there's the mess they left Blood in and issues with a few other games off the top of my head. It seems that community source port maintainers are the only ones that give a damn.
Not what one would expect from a commercial product they paid for.
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