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Topic Summary

Posted by: sarge945
« on: 16. February 2025, 16:17:09 »

Quote by JDoran:
I don't follow you, how are the cameras harder to destroy in Bioshock than in System Shoc 2+? I don't remember that (though of course in Bioshock I don't tend to destroy the cameras, it's more useful to hack them)? The Bioshock cameras do have more 'health, so they are harder to destroy in that respect, but the difference isn't worth mentioning, in that respect, as it still doesn't take much effort to destroy them even with just the wrench.

Maybe I am just misremembering, but I seem to recall them being strong, mostly on par with Deus Ex cameras, so generally not worth destroying unless you're prepared to waste big ammo.

They may not be particularly well tuned, but at least they aren't the pushovers from SS2, which are trivial to deal with.
Posted by: JDoran
« on: 16. February 2025, 16:05:21 »

Quote by voodoo47:
the only game where I hated research more than in Bioshock was Bioshock2. that really was a "hold my beer" moment right there.

Why? All you had to do in B2 was to select the camera, look at the enemy you wanted to be scanned whilst you killed him/her/it, press the fire button (which started the camera), and then fight the selected enemy. Other than selecting the camera, then pressing the fire button, it was no different from just fighting the enemy, you don't even have to manually stop the camera - it times out after a short time.





Quote by sarge945:
...
The ONE genuine improvement BioShock made over SS2 was having cameras that weren't as trivial to destroy. But they also learned this lesson when making Deus Ex, which is why the security mechanics in both games actually function, unlike in SS2

I don't follow you, how are the cameras harder to destroy in Bioshock than in System Shoc 2+? I don't remember that (though of course in Bioshock I don't tend to destroy the cameras, it's more useful to hack them)? The Bioshock cameras do have more 'health, so they are harder to destroy in that respect, but the difference isn't worth mentioning, in that respect, as it still doesn't take much effort to destroy them even with just the wrench.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 16. February 2025, 06:45:23 »

Quote by ZylonBane:
You mean System Shock 2's mechanics.

Gold star. Congrats for getting the reference.

Quote by ZylonBane:
IIRC Prey lifts exactly one unique mechanic from Bioshock, the research camera.

The camera isn't exactly unique. The "visor to detect weak spots" mechanic has been in countless games for a long time. Some of the Metroid games come to mind especially. The research camera is definitely a reasonably well made framing device for this particular mechanic, and it's set up in a way that makes it potentially feel unique, but it's really nothing special.

I would say the camera is all style and no substance, but that's true of pretty much every aspect of Bioshock.

The ONE genuine improvement BioShock made over SS2 was having cameras that weren't as trivial to destroy. But they also learned this lesson when making Deus Ex, which is why the security mechanics in both games actually function, unlike in SS2
Posted by: fox
« on: 15. February 2025, 19:49:19 »

It was alright. I don't think it was in Infinite.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 15. February 2025, 17:50:24 »

the only game where I hated research more than in Bioshock was Bioshock2. that really was a "hold my beer" moment right there.
Posted by: JDoran
« on: 15. February 2025, 14:47:57 »

I never found the research camera in Bioshock 1 to be annoying, other than having to manually select it from the onscreen weapon wheel (the console versions didn't have a specific button to bring up the camera). And Bioshock 2 managed to improve on the camera mechanics (as B2 also improved on so many other of the mechanics of the first game), by making you only need to select and use the camera once per enemy or per multi-enemy conflict.

On the minus side, even for Rapture, the two cameras stretched credulity, given their ability to somehow scan a person's DNA and abilities, and further transfer the subject's abilities to the person using the camera. But of course, the Bioshock games are closer to fantasy than the more science-fiction based System Shock games.

And Bioshock 2's camera perhaps introduces a small plot-hole, in that the camera is shown to be owned by a private detective, who follows and photographed cheating spouses for a living. So why would he use a presumably very expensive genetic-capable camera just for proving someone is cheating on their spouse? Surely the private eye would have used a much cheaper, normal camera for his work?

For me, the most annoying thing in either of the first two Bioshocks is the 4,823,753.452,124 times you have to do the 'Pipemania' hacking game in Bioshock 1 (something else that was thankfully fixed in the sequel), especially since sometimes the board was impossible to complete, though losing it and restarting it mostly had no real negative consequences, at least.

I've only played through Bioshock: Infinite either two or three times, as it bores me, so I can't recall that entire game well enough to recall what I found most tedious about it.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 15. February 2025, 12:17:15 »

how nice of them to copy the most annoying one.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 15. February 2025, 00:08:13 »

Quote by sarge945:
hmm.....if only there was a game that had more built-up, complex, and interesting versions of Bioshock's mechanics...
You mean System Shock 2's mechanics.

IIRC Prey lifts exactly one unique mechanic from Bioshock, the research camera.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 14. February 2025, 01:32:35 »

I just noticed the thumbnail text of the first video posted.

"How Judas builds on Bioshock"

hmm.....if only there was a game that had more built-up, complex, and interesting versions of Bioshock's mechanics...
Posted by: allenwrench1
« on: 08. February 2025, 16:45:26 »

Quote by fox:
gamesradar.com: "https://www.gamesradar.com/games/bioshock-infinite-may-not-have-been-the-thing-i-wanted-but-that-doesnt-necessarily-mean-it-wasnt-the-thing-the-audience-wanted-ken-levine-talks-edge-through-his-collected-works/#"

it was what 2K wanted... now it will be the thing Take-Two Interactive wants.
Posted by: fox
« on: 08. February 2025, 11:29:59 »

gamesradar.com: "BioShock Infinite “may not have been the thing I wanted, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it wasn’t the thing the audience wanted”: Ken Levine guides us through his entire gameography"
Posted by: fox
« on: 03. January 2025, 00:04:29 »

gamesindustry.biz: "The future of storytelling with Ken Levine"
I don't think there's one way to make games, but personally, as a narrative games maker, I've never been a big fan of cutscenes because they're not interactive. One of the reasons Judas is taking so long is trying to figure out how we get the game to be substantially more responsive to player decisions. That's a really hard problem, and that's why you don't see a ton of it [in games].

Posted by: fox
« on: 02. April 2024, 14:25:55 »

"OK Boomer" would've used even fewer characters.
Posted by: icemann
« on: 02. April 2024, 04:16:45 »

Ba-dum-dush
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 02. April 2024, 02:56:17 »

More like Ken Has-been
Posted by: fox
« on: 01. April 2024, 16:59:15 »

The "narrative LEGO"-thing has been mentioned pretty much everytime the words "Ken Levine" and/or "Ghost Story Games" had been name dropped anywhere over the last few years. It's a catchy buzzword but as far as I understand it, it's neither groundbreaking nor a half-assed idea but simply an attempt to include story-elements in the pursuit of player-driven emergent gameplay by breaking it up into smaller pieces and adding more "if then"-branches for the player at more points of their journey, like P&P-RPGs have been doing forever.
Posted by: RoSoDude
« on: 01. April 2024, 16:48:24 »

I recall Ken Levin's "Narrative LEGO" talk at GDC 2014 as sounding like some half-assed thing he came up with in a few hours at his hotel room the night before. There was nothing in that talk that wasn't already present in Fallout: New Vegas, or any other RPG with a faction reputation system. I am surprised that this is making it into promotional interviews for a game a decade later.
Posted by: unn_atropos
« on: 01. April 2024, 13:32:49 »

Something unrelated: in the first video they have a Vetrex in the background constantly showing the games title. I'M not 100% certain, but this may lead to screen burn. Not a nice move to treat a Vectrex like a mere decoration piece  :/ :(
Posted by: fox
« on: 01. April 2024, 10:16:11 »

Not expecting it to turn out as promised is absolutely fair, not least due to previous experiences with Ken Levine. Still, I don't want to close myself up entirely to the possibility that this could become an enjoyable game. From my point of view, damning this game at this point already, is just as unreasonable as hyping it. 
Posted by: Join2
« on: 01. April 2024, 07:56:22 »

Leet gamer yes. Gleeful takedown no. I am quality-oriented above all. I most likely wont waste my time and money playing this. Trust another Levine game? I should have learnt my lesson multiple titles ago, but better late than never.
Posted by: icemann
« on: 01. April 2024, 07:21:07 »

Looks like a Prey - Mooncrash clone to me, considering its a roguelike that resets whenever you die. Would have prefered something more original.

Would I play it? Sure. If its anything like Bioshock then count me in. Recently played through the series and had heaps of fun there.
Posted by: fox
« on: 31. March 2024, 19:48:08 »

Yeah, yeah... Just admit that you're brimming with glee over the juicy new target for your glorious leet-gamer hatred, emerging on the horizon.
Posted by: Join2
« on: 31. March 2024, 18:37:02 »

Looks like shit. Just be happy with the classics. The last worthy Immersive Sim was 22 years ago (Arx Fatalis). It's done for.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 31. March 2024, 15:59:14 »

Looks like Five Nights at Freddy's in space.

I can't believe they seriously slapped a DreamWorks Face on that robot girl.
Posted by: fox
« on: 31. March 2024, 15:27:26 »

I just want a good, ImSim-leaning game, doesn't need to be ground breaking. I too have learned to keep my expectations for upcoming titles low though. Nothing wrong with that.
Posted by: Aristarhys
« on: 31. March 2024, 15:09:40 »

I fear not the man who has did 3 bioshocks, but I fear the man whom doing another one for like ten years now.

There is always a lighthouse, there's always a man, there's always a city - i think it's like foreshadowing of Ken Levine career roadmap on meta level - to grab same formula but brew it a bit differently each time.

To be honest the whole "choose a side" was executed not in great way in bioshock(s) (see Comstock vs Elisabeth vs Vox Populi) and in the end i think it will probably slide again into rails of "forge your own destiny" for for the sake of plot making choices useless (or some "could you kindly" plot twists rendering them minor at best).

If the whole "they all robots" premise in Judas spoiled in overview i have hard time personally to expect anything ground breaking there.
Posted by: fox
« on: 31. March 2024, 10:24:13 »

Apparently there's no dedicated and unlocked thread for the "spiritual successor to the spiritual successor of System Shock" anymore. I think we should have one, now that the game is seeminlgy shaping up and there's a slew of new interviews and footage.

Judas Interview: How Ken Levine Is Building on BioShock With 'Narrative LEGOs'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIqmnoo8Ui4

Here's how Judas is trying to be more than just 'Bioshock in space' (Hands-on Overview)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtyUZA5CPgY

The man is still showing passion and what he says about his ideas sounds pretty good. What will actually be released, remains to be seen but I am way more hopeful now, that they are improving on Bioshock.
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