Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 03. March 2025, 22:01:14 »The TNG era was known for terrible weapon designs.
Posted by: unn_atropos
« on: 03. March 2025, 20:50:53 »Is it possible that the vanilla version is inspired by a Bajoran phaser ?
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 02. March 2025, 21:14:11 »yes, this is the first time we are (not) doing it on a weapon. buuut.. the pipe flanges have been added, the duct connectors have been added, the air ducts have been hollowed out, the grates and small crates have been given depth.
so if it's we are not allowed to add/modify/remove bits from objects because we haven't done that before, then yes, we did do that in the past, to objects that logically should have had those bits added/modified/removed, because the original objects were too simple, or not realistic enough. I don't see why the laspistol grip would be any different.
to make it short, I see no difference between a grate should not be paper thin because realistically, the metal would have some thickness, and the laspistol should not have an inverted grip, because realistically, nobody would be able to hold it.
but again, if it's still a no, then I won't pursue this.
so if it's we are not allowed to add/modify/remove bits from objects because we haven't done that before, then yes, we did do that in the past, to objects that logically should have had those bits added/modified/removed, because the original objects were too simple, or not realistic enough. I don't see why the laspistol grip would be any different.
to make it short, I see no difference between a grate should not be paper thin because realistically, the metal would have some thickness, and the laspistol should not have an inverted grip, because realistically, nobody would be able to hold it.
but again, if it's still a no, then I won't pursue this.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 02. March 2025, 18:47:28 »Protobot crates did not include redesigned droid parts, they copied the existing droid model.
Air ducts were not redesigned, we just made versions with the ends knocked out.
Pipes were not redesigned, they've just been made more rounded.
This business with the laser pistol is a blatant "That's not how I would have designed it, I think it should be designed like this instead," which is way, way over previous lines.
Air ducts were not redesigned, we just made versions with the ends knocked out.
Pipes were not redesigned, they've just been made more rounded.
This business with the laser pistol is a blatant "That's not how I would have designed it, I think it should be designed like this instead," which is way, way over previous lines.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 02. March 2025, 17:37:45 »yes, I realize this one is a bit on the edge, but that's how things sometimes are. I would compare it to the protodroid shipping crate model - some bits were simply missing, "eeh nobody is going to notice anyway". so reconstructed to look proper. the air ducts were redesigned to be actual air ducts, not just blocks of metal. pipes too. plenty of precedent there.
anyway, if your no is final, then I'm not going to push this any further.
anyway, if your no is final, then I'm not going to push this any further.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 02. March 2025, 17:29:29 »Another SHTUP request...
torpedo.bin - Torpedo (-2289)
This is the Rickenbacker torpedo. It has a few issues:
- Missing blue light on one side.
- Tech screen on side without blue light not aligned with texture.
- Yellow stripes at front and end don't join seamlessly.
- One side needs swapped to different texture so hi-res text won't be backwards.
I suppose all of the above except the last item would also qualify this as a Fixed Object addition.
I've already created some replacement assets for this, so I just packed everything up.
torpedo.bin - Torpedo (-2289)
This is the Rickenbacker torpedo. It has a few issues:
- Missing blue light on one side.
- Tech screen on side without blue light not aligned with texture.
- Yellow stripes at front and end don't join seamlessly.
- One side needs swapped to different texture so hi-res text won't be backwards.
I suppose all of the above except the last item would also qualify this as a Fixed Object addition.
I've already created some replacement assets for this, so I just packed everything up.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 02. March 2025, 17:03:20 »As I see it, it's important for mods to stay in their lane, so people who download them can reasonably predict what they're getting. When it comes to models...
- SCP: New models only as needed to support new or repaired functionality.
- Fixed Objects: Corrected technical issues. Z-fighting, missing faces, floating decals, sloppy UVs, etc.
- SHTUP: Enhanced models. Higher poly, more detail, etc.
None of the above include redesigning the guns. That's always been left to standalone gun mods.
Anyway, when SS2EE25AR comes out it'll have all-new weapon models, so this especially isn't worth the hassle.
- SCP: New models only as needed to support new or repaired functionality.
- Fixed Objects: Corrected technical issues. Z-fighting, missing faces, floating decals, sloppy UVs, etc.
- SHTUP: Enhanced models. Higher poly, more detail, etc.
None of the above include redesigning the guns. That's always been left to standalone gun mods.
Anyway, when SS2EE25AR comes out it'll have all-new weapon models, so this especially isn't worth the hassle.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 02. March 2025, 13:48:46 »laspistol shape good to go as far as I'm concerned, now the question becomes, is it worth trying to fix the texture if ZB is against this being included in (one of) the big three? not worth the hassle if this ends up just a minimod of some sort.
btw this should be fixed as far as I'm concerned, yes, the concept art may show the current model (also confirms the top texture is messed up on it), but sometimes you have to admit they just did a dumb thing that should be corrected. the current vanilla laspistol is not an object that could be held by a human being, they probably just didn't realize or something, and as mentioned, if we take a look at the mesh/hand model which is held properly/realistically, then we have no choice but to admit the world model is wrong, and probably should be fixed.
btw this should be fixed as far as I'm concerned, yes, the concept art may show the current model (also confirms the top texture is messed up on it), but sometimes you have to admit they just did a dumb thing that should be corrected. the current vanilla laspistol is not an object that could be held by a human being, they probably just didn't realize or something, and as mentioned, if we take a look at the mesh/hand model which is held properly/realistically, then we have no choice but to admit the world model is wrong, and probably should be fixed.
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 02. March 2025, 13:03:02 »I really need to test the position of models compared to the original. With the updated exporter script it changed a bit and I'm still figuring out which is the correct setting.Something off with the security crate export. It's floating several inches above the floor when replacing the original model.
This one should be good now.
That's from the previous work I did on the laser pistol. When I work on something I tend to use the "latest revision".also watch out, one side of the gun is now untextured.
I agree with you, but I just do as you guys tell me for most of the time.I am not comfortable with fan-fic'ing alternate weapon models into SCP, or SHTUP, and especially not Fixed Objects. The hand grip on the vanilla model may be weird and impractical, but it's as depicted in the concept art.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 01. March 2025, 23:06:28 »I am not comfortable with fan-fic'ing alternate weapon models into SCP, or SHTUP, and especially not Fixed Objects. The hand grip on the vanilla model may be weird and impractical, but it's as depicted in the concept art.
Shield generator and conduit leg models look good to go.
Shield generator and conduit leg models look good to go.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 01. March 2025, 22:21:54 »ooh, forgot to comment on the laspitol - yeah, this is close to what I had in mind, but the grip probably should be moved more forward, no reason to have so much empty space there. Tacticool had a pretty good idea there (also nicely shows just how much messed up the top texture is on vanilla, though it takes it too far with the grip, imho). also watch out, one side of the gun is now untextured.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 01. March 2025, 21:27:19 »Something off with the security crate export. It's floating several inches above the floor when replacing the original model.
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 26. February 2025, 15:53:17 »Conduit needs legs.
I made them so they overlay with the original legs of the conduit when you put them at the same position. I thought that might make it easier for you. I could also change it so they will align above the original legs if put on the same position, but as you might want to stack multiple, how it's currently set up might be simpler for you. It's up to you, I can make the change if wanted.
EDIT: Here's an edited laser pistol. The timer on the mock image ran out so I just did something from memory. I tried to keep the aesthetic of the overall model so the trigger is quite simple in geometry.
I made them so they overlay with the original legs of the conduit when you put them at the same position. I thought that might make it easier for you. I could also change it so they will align above the original legs if put on the same position, but as you might want to stack multiple, how it's currently set up might be simpler for you. It's up to you, I can make the change if wanted.
EDIT: Here's an edited laser pistol. The timer on the mock image ran out so I just did something from memory. I tried to keep the aesthetic of the overall model so the trigger is quite simple in geometry.
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 25. February 2025, 04:16:12 »Generators were a freaking hassle to find the right color. I was looking for the textures but couldn't find anything that matches. Turns out, the material for the lights were no textures at all but an RGB value defined as material. It's the first time I saw this and the importer/exporter I use also doesn't seem to be able to handle it. So I had to take the route on creating .e files and then manually edit them, which also didn't went as easy as bsp.exe was a bit finicky to accepting my edits. It seems that if you use RGB materials, they have to be at the bottom of the material list, somewhere in between and the model doesn't get created properly. Oh the wonders of the dark engine and its tools.
I seem to have properly working models now. Use both new models as I adjusted the lights position.
There are also the adjusted light positions for the hackcrate.
I seem to have properly working models now. Use both new models as I adjusted the lights position.
There are also the adjusted light positions for the hackcrate.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 20. January 2025, 23:46:04 »Also we've got a good-enough-for-now overloaded shield generator model that eliminates the jump when it's swapped in.
@Olfred new request: noticed that the red stripes on the security crate have a serious floating issue:
Model is hackcrat.bin, "Hackable Crate" (-1886) in the hierarchy. You've worked on this model before to add the missing bottom, so hopefully you still have your files from that.
@Olfred new request: noticed that the red stripes on the security crate have a serious floating issue:
Model is hackcrat.bin, "Hackable Crate" (-1886) in the hierarchy. You've worked on this model before to add the missing bottom, so hopefully you still have your files from that.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 16. January 2025, 10:42:57 »@Olfred slight bump into the generator models, and maybe the laspistol. perhaps even the T2 eyeball plant. thanks as always.
//scratch the laspistol, looking at everything again, I think we'll open this can of worms later.
//scratch the laspistol, looking at everything again, I think we'll open this can of worms later.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 24. December 2024, 07:26:53 »did I miss that? yes, I did.
yeah, the first model seems to be unnecessary, actually, so not sure what was fixed there (was thinking the selection brackets, but doesn't seem like it //actually, yes). the second model actually is almost ok, just missing the small yellow light (vanilla sgen1 in the corner).
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yeah, the first model seems to be unnecessary, actually, so not sure what was fixed there (was thinking the selection brackets, but doesn't seem like it //actually, yes). the second model actually is almost ok, just missing the small yellow light (vanilla sgen1 in the corner).
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Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 24. December 2024, 06:39:23 »command1.mis, object 285. In the SCP version of the map there's an editor-only Sympathetic Resonator floating next it that you can grab and plug into it to switch to the other model.
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 24. December 2024, 06:18:43 »Can you give me a map name and a pointer so I can test it out? And maybe the code for the item that is needed to activate it so I can test it out.
There's a lot going on for me right now so it could be that I only can get to it in the next year.
There's a lot going on for me right now so it could be that I only can get to it in the next year.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 24. December 2024, 05:50:07 »Olfred I just took a look at these. Unfortunately they're not usable in their current state since both models turn the lights on the shield generator grey.
Also why are there two models? Only sgen2 should need updating so it doesn't jump in relation to sgen1.
Also why are there two models? Only sgen2 should need updating so it doesn't jump in relation to sgen1.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 16. December 2024, 06:05:53 »Olfred, when you have a chance, could you please chop out just the legs of conduit.bin and conduitr.bin -- these parts:
-- and turn them into new objects consisting of only the four legs? This would allow visually extending the legs on conduits that have been positioned lower than their legs can reach.
-- and turn them into new objects consisting of only the four legs? This would allow visually extending the legs on conduits that have been positioned lower than their legs can reach.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 08. December 2024, 00:29:36 »This is good, thanks. Since this model is used only in dark areas, having that large solid bright area at a high self-illum level really blasts your retinas. So low self-illum works better.
Since the top is its own texture now, I blew it up to 256x128 and "textured" the surface, which looks nice too.
Since the top is its own texture now, I blew it up to 256x128 and "textured" the surface, which looks nice too.
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 04. December 2024, 00:15:30 »imho the 30% on the illumination is muted too much, the whole effect is kind of lost.
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 03. December 2024, 16:19:07 »The giant pixels were to be expected.
I'll take a look at the table and work on it a bit. I might add a new texture to it which is just a solid color.
I'll take a look at the table and work on it a bit. I might add a new texture to it which is just a solid color.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 03. December 2024, 14:28:51 »if you mean the nv+no filtering issue, yeah, that's fixed;
though the top surface now seems to have something that could be described as giant pixels (12x4).
though the top surface now seems to have something that could be described as giant pixels (12x4).
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 03. December 2024, 13:30:14 »Like mentioned before. It's only for testing if the error still appears. Once it's confirmed to not be an issue anymore I would go ahead and work on the model for real.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 03. December 2024, 05:17:00 »On reccount.bin...
- The edge trim of the top has disappeared.
- The color of the top has changed.
- I noticed another issue with the original model; there's a gap between the top and the base.
- Could you please turn down the self-illum brightness of the yellow part? Like maybe 30 instead of 100.
For the rec wall, recwall_2 looks good. Players can't get close to the wall before it blows up, so a medium level of subdivision looks good enough.
- The edge trim of the top has disappeared.
- The color of the top has changed.
- I noticed another issue with the original model; there's a gap between the top and the base.
- Could you please turn down the self-illum brightness of the yellow part? Like maybe 30 instead of 100.
For the rec wall, recwall_2 looks good. Players can't get close to the wall before it blows up, so a medium level of subdivision looks good enough.
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 02. December 2024, 23:15:00 »Ah, so I was doing the right thing (through another means), it was just the wrong ID.
I believe I had the lucky pick and choose the wrong side of the wall for recwall_3. So for testing purposes you can flip it.
If you want to go with 3 I can make you a new model.
I believe I had the lucky pick and choose the wrong side of the wall for recwall_3. So for testing purposes you can flip it.
If you want to go with 3 I can make you a new model.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 02. December 2024, 17:53:58 »Thanks! I'll check these out this evening.
To jump to an object in DromEd:
- F3: enter object ID
- F8 (jump to object)
- F, 2 (level camera if object was pitched/yawed)
I... have no idea where I got "1878" from in my previous post. There is no object 1878 in rec2. The exploding wall is actually object 306.
To jump to an object in DromEd:
- F3: enter object ID
- F8 (jump to object)
- F, 2 (level camera if object was pitched/yawed)
I... have no idea where I got "1878" from in my previous post. There is no object 1878 in rec2. The exploding wall is actually object 306.
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 02. December 2024, 16:33:08 »More like months... I'm sorry guys. It's just always when I want to take some time for it. Something else gets in the way.I'll be back in about 3-4 weeks
I tried to get to the location to test it right there. But I forgot how to jump to a location in the editor. So these are pretty much untested.I've added another request to the first post. In rec2.mis, the wall that explodes (#1878, recwall.bin)
There are various versions I created. 0 is one I cut up manually as the model was in two parts already and I cut the surface in somewhat equal sized faces. 1 and 2 have both sides of the wall cut, for 3 I only cut one side of the wall due to the polygon limit. As noted earlier, I might have cut up the wrong side of the wall, so you might need to flip it for testing. I can modify it the other way around if needed and send you an update.
I took a look at the editor and the UV map for the tabletop is basically just all points at coordinate 0,0. Whatever a graphics card (or driver) might do with filtering, it could lead to weird behaviour.@Olfred can you take a quick look at the attached object please? something wonky might be going on with the top surface (unusual pattern with texture filtering disabled, but not for everyone, it seems).
[RECCOUNT.BIN expired]
I mapped out the UV map a bit for some quick testing. It's nothing pretty, just for testing purposes.
(There are some other uglynesses I saw when I opened the model. So it could use some touch ups anyway)
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 15. October 2024, 14:01:01 »@Olfred can you take a quick look at the attached object please? something wonky might be going on with the top surface (unusual pattern with texture filtering disabled, but not for everyone, it seems).
[RECCOUNT.BIN expired]
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Posted by: Olfred
« on: 13. July 2024, 12:20:29 »I'll be back in about 3-4 weeks, then I'll take a jab at it.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 12. May 2024, 23:17:09 »might as well bump the laspistol too. the more I look at it, the worse it gets.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 11. May 2024, 21:05:14 »I've added another request to the first post. In rec2.mis, the wall that explodes (1878 306, recwall.bin) is very obviously an object, due to the lo-fi vertex lighting. Would definitely benefit from surface subdivision.
How it looks currently:
How lightmapped terrain would look here:
How it looks currently:
How lightmapped terrain would look here:
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 24. January 2024, 15:08:15 »well, yes?
anyway, it's still much easier to tell someone to go update the(ir already loaded) FixedObj mod than point them to a file download buried in this topic (and explain which file goes where) if a certain fixed model is needed to fix something.
anyway, it's still much easier to tell someone to go update the(ir already loaded) FixedObj mod than point them to a file download buried in this topic (and explain which file goes where) if a certain fixed model is needed to fix something.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 23. January 2024, 01:40:08 »The entire point of integrating Fixed Objects into SCP and SHTUP is so users don't have to keep track of yet another mod.
This is the reason why you should only install Fixed Objects if you suffer from uncontrollable twitchy OCD spasms when you don't have the latest latest latest versions of everything.
This is the reason why you should only install Fixed Objects if you suffer from uncontrollable twitchy OCD spasms when you don't have the latest latest latest versions of everything.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 21. January 2024, 16:15:17 »new release of Fixed Objects with the generator and pistol soonish, probably. and this is the reason why you should still load Fixed Objects even if you have SCP - the time periods where they are in sync (making the objects redundant) are relatively short.Will these fixes be added to SCP in a new beta, or the final release of SCP version 5 (or SCP version 0.5, whichever it is)?
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 21. January 2024, 15:53:26 »I'll take a look if I can modify something together when I get some time again.
Posted by: JDoran
« on: 21. January 2024, 15:52:58 »Will these fixes be added to SCP in a new beta, or the final release of SCP version 5 (or SCP version 0.5, whichever it is)?
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 21. January 2024, 15:08:55 »necessary no, fun, yes. besides, we like our vanilla resources.
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 21. January 2024, 14:51:13 »Oh, I totally missed the release of beta5. You could have nagged me a bit more about it if it was that iminent.
Is it really necessary to modify the original model when there already is a pretty good replacement available?
Is it really necessary to modify the original model when there already is a pretty good replacement available?
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 21. January 2024, 10:34:46 »generator good to go, thanks.
pistol texture looks ok, but now that there is no rush anymore, maybe I'll just wait and see whether you can do something about the missing trigger and oddly rotated grip (see the lame mockup).
pistol texture looks ok, but now that there is no rush anymore, maybe I'll just wait and see whether you can do something about the missing trigger and oddly rotated grip (see the lame mockup).
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 21. January 2024, 05:08:14 »Sorry it took so long.
For the laser pistol. No way to fix it only in model. I gave one half of the weapon a new texture name and did a quick edit on the texture. This will likely break any mod that only updates the texture and not the model.
With the generators, I didn't check the behaviour in the actual game. So check if it looks correctly.
For the laser pistol. No way to fix it only in model. I gave one half of the weapon a new texture name and did a quick edit on the texture. This will likely break any mod that only updates the texture and not the model.
With the generators, I didn't check the behaviour in the actual game. So check if it looks correctly.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 25. December 2023, 00:17:56 »one more to wrap the beta5 objects up - laspistol text is reversed. @Olfred would you kindly.
we'll talk about how the frick Goggles even holds that thing and where the trigger is sometime later. //lame mockup attached.
//aand I lied - sgen1.bin and sgen2.bin (normal and overloaded shield generator), the second model is slightly offset on the z-axis, needs to be moved up a bit so there wouldn't be a noticeable model pop/jump when the models are swapped.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhv6-Tyr2ng
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we'll talk about how the frick Goggles even holds that thing and where the trigger is sometime later. //lame mockup attached.
//aand I lied - sgen1.bin and sgen2.bin (normal and overloaded shield generator), the second model is slightly offset on the z-axis, needs to be moved up a bit so there wouldn't be a noticeable model pop/jump when the models are swapped.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhv6-Tyr2ng
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Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 29. October 2023, 09:14:10 »maybe - we'll see. I'll bother let you know, no worry.
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 28. October 2023, 23:56:07 »If you still want any changes or need something done just tell me so.
What about the world model, should it get the same treatment? Just with non illuminated lights?
What about the world model, should it get the same treatment? Just with non illuminated lights?
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 28. October 2023, 22:50:50 »yes, that should do just fine - thanks.
we'll see what we can whip up with this as a base.
we'll see what we can whip up with this as a base.
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 28. October 2023, 22:43:46 »No they weren't square.
Made them square now (eyeballed, not perfect). Is this better now?
Made them square now (eyeballed, not perfect). Is this better now?
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 28. October 2023, 17:29:43 »maybe still a bit too big. are they square?
Posted by: Olfred
« on: 28. October 2023, 17:06:41 »I see.
Is this to your liking?
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Is this to your liking?
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