Posted by: eldrone
« on: Yesterday at 07:00:07 »Yeah as you've all seen, NDAs have been going out, we'll let anyone involved know when things start rolling!
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: Yesterday at 02:06:05 »Seems more like you had yourself.
Posted by: Dingus
« on: Yesterday at 01:21:31 »Okay, thanks for clarifying, you had me there for a sec 😅
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: Yesterday at 01:19:55 »no, I just gave you my estimate. the one I've been mentioning since forever - once the internal beta test starts, a release in 6 months is not impossible.
if I knew for sure, I would NOT be able to tell you what it is.
if I knew for sure, I would NOT be able to tell you what it is.
Posted by: Dingus
« on: Yesterday at 01:03:52 »6 months? As in it'll release in six months? Did you just break your NDA?
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 03. March 2025, 20:55:16 »NDA has been signed - set your toasters to 6 months and keep your fingers crossed.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 28. February 2025, 20:25:40 »observe - this forum is a place on the internet where sound and logical arguments managed to change an opinion.
this should be archived somehow so that future generations could refer to it.
this should be archived somehow so that future generations could refer to it.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 28. February 2025, 20:13:49 »Whoops, fixed that year.
Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 28. February 2025, 19:22:19 »I think you people are all right, i changed my opinion, give it back the original color :/
It is even from 1986, and i wanted to post the very same picture here for comparison. It is indeed more similar to original maintanance droid skin.... now i see it.
But new midwife cyborg looks awesome imo, i especially like for e.g. how slim her waist seems to be now - for the extra creepiness - it also looks more "aesthetic" if one dare to say so, but i wished her legs were more akin to the concept art: the outer thighs' ridges. Also her (louise brooks) hair is still blocky, but i guess there is still too restricted polygon count or whatever..
Additionally, consider this: Aliens (1996) was a huge cultural presence while SS2 was in development. And what did Aliens prominently feature?
It is even from 1986, and i wanted to post the very same picture here for comparison. It is indeed more similar to original maintanance droid skin.... now i see it.
for the midwife ass - if they wanted to give her more ass, they would have done so back in 1999. so no extra ass, would you kindly.
But new midwife cyborg looks awesome imo, i especially like for e.g. how slim her waist seems to be now - for the extra creepiness - it also looks more "aesthetic" if one dare to say so, but i wished her legs were more akin to the concept art: the outer thighs' ridges. Also her (louise brooks) hair is still blocky, but i guess there is still too restricted polygon count or whatever..
Posted by: WhyHelloThere
« on: 28. February 2025, 17:20:53 »So, I take it we're getting a SHTUP-25 mod shortly after release, specifically for this version?
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 28. February 2025, 17:18:59 »Actually now that I compare the two side-by-side, it's evident this isn't just a saturation shift, but a significant hue shift as well.
What was yellow, is now orange. It's not even bright orange, but rather a dull burnt orange, so it loses the aspect of being intentionally painted with a high-visibility color for safety, which emphasizes that it's a non-combat droid. You want high-vis colors to be bold and eye-catching. That's the entire point. Anyone who thinks these colors should "blend into the world" has critically failed to understand the assignment.
Additionally, consider this: Aliens (1986) was still a huge cultural presence while SS2 was in development. And what did Aliens prominently feature?
And yes, it was bright yellow when you can see past all the on-set fog and lighting. Did the power loader influence the appearance of the maintenance bot? I'd lay good odds on it.
So if a yellow mech suit was good enough for one of the greatest scfi films of all time, I'd say a yellow mech is still good enough for SS2. The dull orange take is just change for the sake of change.
What was yellow, is now orange. It's not even bright orange, but rather a dull burnt orange, so it loses the aspect of being intentionally painted with a high-visibility color for safety, which emphasizes that it's a non-combat droid. You want high-vis colors to be bold and eye-catching. That's the entire point. Anyone who thinks these colors should "blend into the world" has critically failed to understand the assignment.
Additionally, consider this: Aliens (1986) was still a huge cultural presence while SS2 was in development. And what did Aliens prominently feature?
And yes, it was bright yellow when you can see past all the on-set fog and lighting. Did the power loader influence the appearance of the maintenance bot? I'd lay good odds on it.
So if a yellow mech suit was good enough for one of the greatest scfi films of all time, I'd say a yellow mech is still good enough for SS2. The dull orange take is just change for the sake of change.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 28. February 2025, 15:58:06 »This is the palette for the main maintenance bot texture. As y'all can plainly see, it's optimized for the maintenance bot, not for shared use.
I swear to god, some things just bring the knee-jerk contrarians out of the woodwork.
I swear to god, some things just bring the knee-jerk contrarians out of the woodwork.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 28. February 2025, 14:42:12 »I don't think the Thief assets contained any SS2 textures at that time.
off the top of my head, the only example of a discolored vanilla texture is the training signs on the earth map, but that is a bug/incorrect rendering setting, not an inability to assign an intended color - as mentioned, this never was an issue, even in oldDark.
so if an object is bright yellow, then you can be 99.99% sure it was meant to be bright yellow.
same goes for the midwife ass - if they wanted to give her more ass, they would have done so back in 1999. so no extra ass, would you kindly.
off the top of my head, the only example of a discolored vanilla texture is the training signs on the earth map, but that is a bug/incorrect rendering setting, not an inability to assign an intended color - as mentioned, this never was an issue, even in oldDark.
so if an object is bright yellow, then you can be 99.99% sure it was meant to be bright yellow.
same goes for the midwife ass - if they wanted to give her more ass, they would have done so back in 1999. so no extra ass, would you kindly.
Posted by: Livo
« on: 28. February 2025, 12:33:29 »I know Irrational got a copy of the then still in-development Dark engine to use whilst they were making SS2, the first Thief game could run on a software renderer I believe. Maybe some of the earliest textures they created were palletized for an early build that supported software rendering, but they didn't have time to adjust those early textures when SS2 was switched to a hardware renderer only?
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 28. February 2025, 12:08:12 »What? SS2 textures can use any 24-bit color. Restricted palettes are for software renderers. SS2 is hardware rendering only.Wasn't Irrational forced to use a pretty restricted color palette, as was the standard at the time?
Now there were some restrictions on how many unique colors be used simultaneously, for example only 256 different colors per texture, but again, that didn't restrict the individual palette choices.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 28. February 2025, 10:58:54 »yes, there are bugs to be found here and there. the maintdroid color is not one of them.
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 28. February 2025, 10:50:05 »Wasn't Irrational forced to use a pretty restricted color palette, as was the standard at the time?
Yeah, there's a bunch of cases of tone shifting from palletization in the original textures
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 28. February 2025, 08:21:53 »Wasn't Irrational forced to use a pretty restricted color palette, as was the standard at the time?
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 28. February 2025, 02:42:12 »The fundamental point is that there's no good reason to change the color at all. Maintenance bots aren't that color because of any technical limitation, Irrational made them that color because they wanted them to be that color.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 28. February 2025, 01:38:05 »In my opinion the worst part about the desaturated yellow is that gameplay wise, its gonna create a minor nuisance that didn't use to be there. The higher saturation gives the enemy better visibility, meaning that the player would subconsciously recognize it faster + it would be hard to miss from the corner of your eye (which makes actual "in-world" sense because its a piece of heavy duty machinery!)
I know this is a common complaint whenever anything comes out with more muted colours, and in most cases it's right, but System Shock 2 is such a dark game, and relies so heavily on dark blues, blacks, dark browns, deep purples, and other "dark" colours for it's atmosphere, I don't think making a bright yellow bot slightly darker yellow is going to really make much of a difference for visibility.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 27. February 2025, 17:23:16 »eldroneOkay that does look better, but still a bit muted compared to the original.
As long as we're nitpicking, I noticed that the lettering on this and some other models is shaded so it looks like it's been "punched" into the metal, which is somewhat odd. For this sort of thing you'd normally expect lettering to be applied with decals or paint, both for ease of maintenance and for not compromising the strength of the material. For droids and turrets, physically carving out letters is essentially damaging the armor.
As long as we're nitpicking, I noticed that the lettering on this and some other models is shaded so it looks like it's been "punched" into the metal, which is somewhat odd. For this sort of thing you'd normally expect lettering to be applied with decals or paint, both for ease of maintenance and for not compromising the strength of the material. For droids and turrets, physically carving out letters is essentially damaging the armor.
Posted by: ModdedInstall2
« on: 27. February 2025, 13:45:19 »While the desaturated colors are indeed an issue (I've always been the kind of guy who likes vibrant over mute shades, and it seems I'm not alone), I am very glad for the fact that most of the new models are incredible, and when paired with the enhanced VFX, System Shock 2 looks like it might actually be able to hold its own visually when compared with modern games, just with RTX off (thank goodness).
Posted by: Valet2
« on: 27. February 2025, 09:51:27 »Sorry, concerning all the effort you've made... but could realtime shadows be an option?
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 27. February 2025, 09:02:36 »ZylonBane
I was hoping I'd earned your trust at this point!
They're slightly more construction yellow than the pure yellowgreen from before, but lighting has always affected the look of things in the game, like when I move it to a brighter lit area in the same map:
I was hoping I'd earned your trust at this point!
They're slightly more construction yellow than the pure yellowgreen from before, but lighting has always affected the look of things in the game, like when I move it to a brighter lit area in the same map:
Posted by: Livo
« on: 27. February 2025, 03:36:20 »Question about the Cyborg Assassin screenshot: the assault rifle seems to be held sideways. Is that a new animation whenever a weapon jams? Or a "changed firing mode" animation from the default one? As for the damaged protocol droid, I assume it's a nifty damage effect that all enemies can have now? Or is it a special "broken protocol droid" model that spawns from damaged containers?
The new models do indeed look great, especially the Cyborg Assassin, apart from the saturation: can model saturation be changed via the options, or is it a texture mod solution? Personally, I think having dots on the pistol sights (and other weapons) that "glow" in dark areas would be a simple but nice graphical feature, especially with Dark/Kex's lighting effects.
The new models do indeed look great, especially the Cyborg Assassin, apart from the saturation: can model saturation be changed via the options, or is it a texture mod solution? Personally, I think having dots on the pistol sights (and other weapons) that "glow" in dark areas would be a simple but nice graphical feature, especially with Dark/Kex's lighting effects.
Posted by: Brig
« on: 27. February 2025, 02:43:08 »In my opinion the worst part about the desaturated yellow is that gameplay wise, its gonna create a minor nuisance that didn't use to be there. The higher saturation gives the enemy better visibility, meaning that the player would subconsciously recognize it faster + it would be hard to miss from the corner of your eye (which makes actual "in-world" sense because its a piece of heavy duty machinery!)
Posted by: Chandlermaki
« on: 27. February 2025, 02:24:49 »Questionable color saturation aside, those new models all look GREAT. That new Rumbler especially.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 27. February 2025, 01:46:29 »I was talking with a professional video-game artist on RPGCodex (at least that's what they claimed, not sure I entirely believe them, but they did seem to understand the internals of the industry) and they seem completely unable, as a profession, to get colour right. The reasoning presented was that they are now trained from day-1 to mute the colours in modern games because all the post-processing effects and other junk will "bring out the highlights". They are also taught that there's no other way to do proper lighting and colour space work without dynamic lighting and bloom, and other false facts about games.
It's gotten so bad that when I suggested someone just make decent quality textures that look good on their own and not waste the time and processing power making ugly bloomy shaders, they thought I was insane. As if it's literally impossible to make something that looks good without slapping very extreme shaders over the top of it.
I feel like VG Artists, as a profession, have lost their way. I blame Unreal Engine personally, especially with how easy UE5 makes it to slap ugly-looking crap all over your screen, and how necessary it is because of how bad deferred rendering looks.
But here, in SS2, it's just literally brainrot taking over and making the colours worse for no reason, since there are no obnoxious UE5 shaders (or at least, I hope not)
It's gotten so bad that when I suggested someone just make decent quality textures that look good on their own and not waste the time and processing power making ugly bloomy shaders, they thought I was insane. As if it's literally impossible to make something that looks good without slapping very extreme shaders over the top of it.
I feel like VG Artists, as a profession, have lost their way. I blame Unreal Engine personally, especially with how easy UE5 makes it to slap ugly-looking crap all over your screen, and how necessary it is because of how bad deferred rendering looks.
But here, in SS2, it's just literally brainrot taking over and making the colours worse for no reason, since there are no obnoxious UE5 shaders (or at least, I hope not)
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 26. February 2025, 23:35:33 »and the fun part is that it's perfectly possible to do hires textures without messing up the colors. so they are choosing to do this *cough cough* pixelated SSR textures *cough cough*..
Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 26. February 2025, 23:28:02 »
Your thinking is how we ended up with the "Everything is shit-brown" era of FPS games.
Noo, this can't be.. in fact i am even an almost 16 & 24 bit only console player (got a neo geo aes finally last year - saving money for games), or i play 1 or 2 bit games, like world of horror. System shock 2 is a rare exception :l
It is even a rather newish game for my circumstances.
Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 26. February 2025, 23:19:18 »ZylonBane
:l
Photos of some bulldozers & other hazardous equipment on construction sites in broad daylight: notice how they are not in extreme bright yellow & some not even in yellow at all please.
:l
Photos of some bulldozers & other hazardous equipment on construction sites in broad daylight: notice how they are not in extreme bright yellow & some not even in yellow at all please.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 26. February 2025, 22:56:11 »Your opinion is wrong.The original looked too yellow & cartoonish imo.
Bright yellow-orange for potentially hazardous equipment is realistic, not cartoony. And SS2 is a colorful game, so a bright yellow robot never looked out of place.
Your thinking is how we ended up with the "Everything is shit-brown" era of FPS games.
Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 26. February 2025, 22:31:33 »ZylonBane
Nooo, i like it as it is depicted now! The original looked too yellow & cartoonish imo. It blends much more better into the gameworld now. Please leave them be.
This is so great!
The rest of the preview images as well! It seems there are even real time character damage models for the enemies as well oO! :
Nooo, i like it as it is depicted now! The original looked too yellow & cartoonish imo. It blends much more better into the gameworld now. Please leave them be.
This is so great!
The rest of the preview images as well! It seems there are even real time character damage models for the enemies as well oO! :
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 26. February 2025, 21:39:33 »yeah, even the average joes on discord are noticing the colors are off.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 26. February 2025, 20:53:01 »Bunch of new screenshots and video clips dropped today on the Steam page.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/866570/System_Shock_2_25th_Anniversary_Remaster/
Enhanced model detail is looking good, but seems there's still that issue with desaturated colors.
That's gonna need fixing. There's a reason maintenance droids are painted Safety Yellow, not Bleh Brown.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/866570/System_Shock_2_25th_Anniversary_Remaster/
Enhanced model detail is looking good, but seems there's still that issue with desaturated colors.
That's gonna need fixing. There's a reason maintenance droids are painted Safety Yellow, not Bleh Brown.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 18. February 2025, 22:43:48 »just rolls off your tongue.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 18. February 2025, 22:25:43 »Electric Boogaloo
Posted by: WhyHelloThere
« on: 18. February 2025, 15:47:35 »Don't forget the "& Knuckles"
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 17. February 2025, 04:24:12 »"System Shock 2 HD: Ultimate Enhanced 25th Anniversary Championship Remaster Platinum Edition Pro Alpha Plus Turbo DX: Nah Memories"
Posted by: Xkilljoy98
« on: 17. February 2025, 04:01:29 »While I do prefer "Enhanced Edition" over "25th Anniversary Remaster" I am at least happy it seems to be releasing this year. Apparently it's going to have the date announced next month. March 20th at GDC from what I've read. Also there is now a switch port coming out.
Besides 25 years after 1999 is 2024 right?
Besides 25 years after 1999 is 2024 right?
Posted by: JDoran
« on: 15. February 2025, 16:54:05 »Is there a recent preview video of the new System Shock 2, please?
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 15. February 2025, 11:21:45 »Anyway, bold of them to officially call it a remaster now when most of the "remastered" graphics come from community mods.
Also I guess we should refer to it as SS225AR now.
It relies a ton on the community mods included and it wouldn't be possible without them.
But right now the new character and weapon models are just a small fraction of the work that has gone into the remaster.
Posted by: Livo
« on: 15. February 2025, 03:02:45 »I "think" the article was very badly citing the official Nightdive press release notes, which state that for Kex games, their console specific releases can run up to 4K 120fps. Happy to be corrected, but I believe some of the latest Kex releases have PC versions that can run faster than 120fps, but their console counterparts are limited to either 60 or 120fps, depending on if they're Switch, Xbox or PS4/5.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 14. February 2025, 22:25:15 »Maybe Kex DOESN'T support over 120 FPS.
Posted by: vrubayka
« on: 14. February 2025, 20:19:23 »NewDark supports any frame rate, so long as you set the physics tickrate to 60 it works with no issues. Why the 120fps cap?Up to 4K 120FPS performance with ultra-widescreen support and...
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 14. February 2025, 15:31:34 »Why on earth would you link to a Reddit post instead of the article linked to by the Reddit post?
https://nintendoeverything.com/system-shock-2-25th-anniversary-remaster-announced-for-nintendo-switch/
Anyway, bold of them to officially call it a remaster now when most of the "remastered" graphics come from community mods.
Also I guess we should refer to it as SS225AR now.
https://nintendoeverything.com/system-shock-2-25th-anniversary-remaster-announced-for-nintendo-switch/
Anyway, bold of them to officially call it a remaster now when most of the "remastered" graphics come from community mods.
Also I guess we should refer to it as SS225AR now.
Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 14. February 2025, 14:58:11 »Posted by: sarge945
« on: 21. January 2025, 02:38:56 »Something actually useful would be the ability for scripts to trigger autosaves. Would allow mods that save at regular intervals, or that save at significant progress points.
Yeah I suggested the same thing. A saferoom/save point mod would require a script function to disable saving altogether (which would also disable autosaving), and a function to trigger an autosave.
A function to create a custom named save would be nice, but SS2 uses a save slot system, so I'm not sure that would be a good idea, given it might clobber important existing saves.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 20. January 2025, 22:00:31 »Something actually useful would be the ability for scripts to trigger autosaves. Would allow mods that save at regular intervals, or that save at significant progress points.
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