Posted by: CyrusVonNox2001
« on: 08. March 2025, 21:27:47 »ZylonBane
I checked and everything looks consistent, my fault for not checking before posting.
I checked and everything looks consistent, my fault for not checking before posting.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 08. March 2025, 18:41:14 »maintaining the tool fixup dmls means I have to run through the vanilla levels every once in a while. it's.. rough. makes you appreciate what the SCP/SHTUP combo does even more.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 08. March 2025, 18:20:43 »I don't think that word means what you think it means.I think the one I noticed the most was that one new computer in MedSci on top of the 3 floor lab where you hear the first Many speech. I think that was just me being pedantic.
My god, do you actually think we're putting HD textures in SCP? If you want to know how any of the new stuff would look without SHTUP/400, just... deactivate them and go look.I guess I was more concerned that it and other new additions would be too high quality and look out of place if I didn't have SHTUP and 400 enabled.
Posted by: Honda
« on: 08. March 2025, 04:46:44 »ZylonBane
Oh that's what you mean, nah, at that point I'd be re-creating ShockED and again this is a file viewer with lightweight editing capabilities involving dmls, properties and whatever else I commit to (although this will be released under GPL v3, so if someone wants to turn it into a cleaner ShockED then by all means but that's not my priority right now).
For context, you should think of this as something similar to SS2-Tool, you feed it a fresh copy of SS2 (even if its from an original Disc) and you can choose what changes to add/keep/undo.
I guess what I can also do is maybe allow users to point to a local download of SCP and I can have the GUI ask what you want to keep/discard in terms of categorical changes, like maybe you only want stat changes but discard any cosmetic changes, etc (This would take some work obviously). I think there's clearly a demand for this, like if you want to undo a lot of things in the upcoming remaster (assuming ND foolishly opts to not make things toggleable)
If this seems like a lot of preprocessing, it's because this viewer is being made in service of a different project which I'll talk about more after I release this. I'm trying to get this done within the next month or so, and there will be a lot more specifics to disclose as well.
Oh that's what you mean, nah, at that point I'd be re-creating ShockED and again this is a file viewer with lightweight editing capabilities involving dmls, properties and whatever else I commit to (although this will be released under GPL v3, so if someone wants to turn it into a cleaner ShockED then by all means but that's not my priority right now).
For context, you should think of this as something similar to SS2-Tool, you feed it a fresh copy of SS2 (even if its from an original Disc) and you can choose what changes to add/keep/undo.
I guess what I can also do is maybe allow users to point to a local download of SCP and I can have the GUI ask what you want to keep/discard in terms of categorical changes, like maybe you only want stat changes but discard any cosmetic changes, etc (This would take some work obviously). I think there's clearly a demand for this, like if you want to undo a lot of things in the upcoming remaster (assuming ND foolishly opts to not make things toggleable)
If this seems like a lot of preprocessing, it's because this viewer is being made in service of a different project which I'll talk about more after I release this. I'm trying to get this done within the next month or so, and there will be a lot more specifics to disclose as well.
Posted by: CyrusVonNox2001
« on: 08. March 2025, 04:39:52 »I think the one I noticed the most was that one new computer in MedSci on top of the 3 floor lab where you hear the first Many speech. I think that was just me being pedantic. I guess I was more concerned that it and other new additions would be too high quality and look out of place if I didn't have SHTUP and 400 enabled.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 08. March 2025, 04:26:26 »That "hacking" text was an ADaOB addition, not in vanilla. We eventually got rid of it because it was silly and just distracted from the reveal. And the level geometry does still slide away.
Still curious what the "lot of changes" to the maps are that you objected to.
Still curious what the "lot of changes" to the maps are that you objected to.
Posted by: CyrusVonNox2001
« on: 08. March 2025, 04:23:51 »Well, forget it, the changes aren't that much to worry about. I do agree that I think the vanilla SHODAN reveal was kinda cooler with the level geometry sliding away. I also remember a cool little feature that I never saw on my playthrough on beta 6, that I saw on MandaloreGaming's review where SHODAN hacks into your interface via the text log, I don't know where that went, but that was kinda cool and added to the experience.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 08. March 2025, 03:43:25 »I meant edit map geometry. Does your viewer include a simple CSG editor, optimizer, pathfinder, and lightmap builder?
Posted by: Honda
« on: 08. March 2025, 00:37:19 »Oh yeah that's simple enough, although not knowing what those 'fixes' are he has in mind makes things a little more ambiguous.
There will be a super simple software renderer so you can view the maps, objects, etc. in the tool itself.
There will be a super simple software renderer so you can view the maps, objects, etc. in the tool itself.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 08. March 2025, 00:10:13 »Unless it can edit maps, which is specifically what CyVoNo2K+1 said he wants, no, it will not do what he wants.Hey OP, I'm currently working on a solution which will allow you to do what you want
That being said, he hasn't even responded to this thread since starting it, so it's not clear exactly what changes he doesn't like, or if he just has some vague notion of "SCP, but like, more vanilla, man" in mind.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 07. March 2025, 23:42:42 »if you are hoping for an easy way of frankensteining various SCP bits into a working result, then I would say nooooope, not happening.
Posted by: Honda
« on: 07. March 2025, 23:28:20 »CyrusVonNox2001
Hey OP, I'm currently working on a solution which will allow you to do what you want, provide your copy of SS2 with bug fixes (and mesh/object fixes if your copy of SS2 doesn't provide them) but nothing else. It'll be a file viewer thingy which allows you to statically inspect all of the resources of your copy (or copies) of SS2, view the proplists of newdark and olddark, export things in several different ways, and more. All that will be required is having Python installed
Hey OP, I'm currently working on a solution which will allow you to do what you want, provide your copy of SS2 with bug fixes (and mesh/object fixes if your copy of SS2 doesn't provide them) but nothing else. It'll be a file viewer thingy which allows you to statically inspect all of the resources of your copy (or copies) of SS2, view the proplists of newdark and olddark, export things in several different ways, and more. All that will be required is having Python installed
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 07. March 2025, 21:06:07 »yes, it physically exists, hence, it has to provide some protection. this is not Unreal's shield belt.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 07. March 2025, 18:52:08 »Well, there's nothing in its description that explicitly states it provides protection when unpowered. At most it mentions that it's made of solid titanium. SCP just made the logical leap that even in an unpowered state it therefore must provide some protection, even if it's not much. Only 10% damage reduction actually, barely better than no armor at all.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 07. March 2025, 18:23:53 »to make it technical, it was either modifying the description/lore, or its stats/mechanics. we chose the latter.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 07. March 2025, 18:17:30 »Considering that unpowered powered armor in SCP provides only half the protection of the weakest non-powered armor, and considering that powered armor doesn't physically disappear from the wearer's body when the battery runs out... anyone who complained would appear very silly indeed. Very, very silly.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 07. March 2025, 17:15:31 »I don't understand the "maps are too different" comments either.
I've stated on the record multiple times my issues with SCPs changes, but they are almost entirely gameplay related. The only map change I don't like is to the shodan reveal, as I prefer the sliding/unraveling nature of the area vs the fade out of SCP.
But 99.99% of SCPs map changes are good, unnoticeable even.
People should be complaining about the unpowered power armor protection and things of that nature, not the maps.
I've stated on the record multiple times my issues with SCPs changes, but they are almost entirely gameplay related. The only map change I don't like is to the shodan reveal, as I prefer the sliding/unraveling nature of the area vs the fade out of SCP.
But 99.99% of SCPs map changes are good, unnoticeable even.
People should be complaining about the unpowered power armor protection and things of that nature, not the maps.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 07. March 2025, 15:10:04 »Never underestimate the observational powers of minmaxers.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 07. March 2025, 15:00:35 »it's still so powerful most people won't even notice.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 07. March 2025, 13:30:47 »Even calling the Kool-Aid room redone is an exaggeration, because it's still functionally and structurally identical to the original. It just got redressed to make more sense with the area it's in.
I guess the nerfed assault rifle might vex some people, but come on, that thing is ridiculous in vanilla.
I guess the nerfed assault rifle might vex some people, but come on, that thing is ridiculous in vanilla.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 07. March 2025, 11:40:26 »yeah, plus the kool-aid scene room has been redone because it made zero sense (even for SS2), few blocked off passageways have been added to Rick.. and that's it, the rest (few rooms and corridors made a bit wider, few broken doors added) you wouldn't notice unless comparing the maps directly.
the worst offender against the stay close to vanilla motto is still the pre-unloaded hybrid shotgun slug, and if that makes someone mad, then we probably couldn't have helped anyway.
oh and maybe the new Tinker trait, but that one is so amazing that it gets a pass.
the worst offender against the stay close to vanilla motto is still the pre-unloaded hybrid shotgun slug, and if that makes someone mad, then we probably couldn't have helped anyway.
oh and maybe the new Tinker trait, but that one is so amazing that it gets a pass.
Posted by: Nameless Voice
« on: 07. March 2025, 11:06:02 »I'd imagine that comes from ADaOB, which changed a few odd things which SCP later rolled back. Like removing ICE picks for example.
The main obvious change I can think of in SCP is Korenchkin's office, which amusingly is now so iconic that I saw it used in a screenshot to represent SS2 recently.
The main obvious change I can think of in SCP is Korenchkin's office, which amusingly is now so iconic that I saw it used in a screenshot to represent SS2 recently.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 07. March 2025, 09:44:04 »there are maybe like three places where a veteran player would realize that aha, this place was reconstructed - not sure where the SCP makes a lot of changes to maps idea started, but it's just as annoyingly untrue as the it's very easy to soft-lock this game rumor.
anyway, to answer the question, yes this does exist, just use the tool and the recommended mods, but pause/deactivate SCP, the tool has a set of dml fixes that hammer out the worst issues, just like TFix lite does.
and don't worry, you'll be back - once you experience the smoothness, there is pretty much no return..
anyway, to answer the question, yes this does exist, just use the tool and the recommended mods, but pause/deactivate SCP, the tool has a set of dml fixes that hammer out the worst issues, just like TFix lite does.
and don't worry, you'll be back - once you experience the smoothness, there is pretty much no return..
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 07. March 2025, 09:02:14 »To be honest the SCP changes are faithful enough that it's easy to forget what was part of the original and what was changes, most people wouldn't be aware.
I think it's more about trying not to think too much about it.
I think it's more about trying not to think too much about it.
Posted by: CyrusVonNox2001
« on: 07. March 2025, 06:21:07 »I'm thinking about doing another playthrough of SS2 and I was thinking about having a more vanilla experience. I was wondering, what mods would give me an experience that is very vanilla, but with bug, texture, and map fixes, and a few sensible improvements, similar to TFix lite. I just remembered that SCP makes a lot of changes to the maps. I like a lot of the bug fixes and quality of life changes, but I'm not a big fan of map changes and other big changes for this playthrough. I remember a few mods SCP used within their mod, like Olfreds object fixes, so if there's anything like that that I can use out side of SCP that would be great.
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