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In which year was System Shock 2 released:

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Topic Summary

Posted by: bobf5
« on: 27. March 2025, 19:38:24 »

On a different note, will there be any additional or updated sounds for SS2 Enhanced? Like the exotic weapons reloading & changing fire modes sounding more organic & gross, rather than reusing the standard metallic ones for example? Goggles is loading worms from a beaker & doing god knows what to a weird fleshy thing to change fire modes, it should sound a little icky.
Would love to see additional sounds specifically as a togglable option.

On that note, most of SS2's original sound sources are listed here: https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=cck2s8u6d8tbq290gj2herdnfr&topic=13051

And on top of that, at least four other sound libraries were used as well:
The Works https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RJOGPrH8VPAPWxbN34C_jJDuu3EbvUNH/view?usp=sharing (also used in Star Trek!)
Digiffects https://soundideas.sourceaudio.com/track/41254608 (heard in Prefontaine's final log, would make a good extra sound for the teeth)
Hollywood Edge Animal Trax https://soundideas.sourceaudio.com/track/11508651 (the worms are bears in disguise!)
Hollywood Edge Premiere Edition 1 https://soundideas.sourceaudio.com/track/11473643

Modders, Nightdive, whoever: make good use of this knowledge ;)
Posted by: Livo
« on: 27. March 2025, 13:42:39 »

Good lord that's a lot of trigonometry calculations.

On a different note, will there be any additional or updated sounds for SS2 Enhanced? Like the exotic weapons reloading & changing fire modes sounding more organic & gross, rather than reusing the standard metallic ones for example? Goggles is loading worms from a beaker & doing god knows what to a weird fleshy thing to change fire modes, it should sound a little icky.
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 27. March 2025, 12:18:16 »

ZylonBane
This security window for example, this one seems to have a bugged physics box. But yeah, bunch of tests and measurements.

and yes, decal is on the way.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 26. March 2025, 16:57:14 »

The collider? Do you mean the terrain raycast? I assumed that's what you'd be using.
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 26. March 2025, 16:31:54 »

I'm getting a migraine just thinking about how much trigonometry this must have required.

And whatever it took to preserve the thickness of windows.

And how this handles the "security" windows with the wire mesh and VB logos.

Oh and the fact that they are either x or y oriented.

And that the collider isn't perfect in every place.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 26. March 2025, 15:54:42 »

So a script will calculate, resize and replace with a new 1x1x1 model.
I'm getting a migraine just thinking about how much trigonometry this must have required.

And whatever it took to preserve the thickness of windows.

And how this handles the "security" windows with the wire mesh and VB logos.
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 26. March 2025, 07:43:08 »

That's... very reflective. Reminds me why SHTUP doesn't apply cubemaps to the windows.


Yeah there's tradeoffs, the most optimal reflections would be a realtime cubemap solution so it works good in any place, but having it feel a bit more like glass was something I wanted to achieve.
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 26. March 2025, 07:40:01 »

I like the new windows much more, the blue tint was always very unrealistic - the new ones seem to be a nice compromise + i really really like those new fully modelled windows seals or whatever it is, very nice detail:

It was an interesting problem to solve, because all windows use any of like 40 different window models, and these models clip into the worldrep in many different ways.

Which means windowframes were not possible.


So a script will calculate, resize and replace with a new 1x1x1 model.


But it also allows switching back and forth at runtime via a config variable, and I discovered some techniques around manipulating the world and reverting right before saving the game.

So these are actually one of the few things that are easy to disable to have the old look.



This also allows for broken window frames when a window breaks instead of nothing.
Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 25. March 2025, 21:52:44 »

why even change the colors of windows? the green/ smoky blue ones were already pretty cool.

I like the new windows much more, the blue tint was always very unrealistic - the new ones seem to be a nice compromise + i really really like those new fully modelled windows seals or whatever it is, very nice detail:



Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 25. March 2025, 17:32:35 »

That's... very reflective. Reminds me why SHTUP doesn't apply cubemaps to the windows.
Posted by: pingu
« on: 25. March 2025, 17:26:03 »



much improvement, much wow
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 25. March 2025, 14:38:04 »

Sounds like a new feature in the material system. Making reflective surfaces look correct under varying lighting conditions always was a challenge.

Yeah, might be, can't remember at this point because its essentiellt just a layered cubemap.

But it was a lot of trial and error to get something looking good when it comes to windows.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 25. March 2025, 14:29:50 »

Sounds like a new feature in the material system. Making reflective surfaces look correct under varying lighting conditions always was a challenge.
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 25. March 2025, 14:22:08 »

The trailer is looking really nice. but I have a couple of questions:
why even change the colors of windows? the green/ smoky blue ones were already pretty cool. also og 16bit renderer gave much more pronounced blues to the overall lighting.
midwide's eyes look much less horrifying then in the gory original. is this the finished look?

Windows use a new material where the cubemap will use the overall lighting level to set the intensity and reflection level, this will change the color in some places, but overall they are still blue.

As for midwife, it's getting a polish pass, so these things will be addressed.
Posted by: MilkeyWilkey
« on: 25. March 2025, 11:04:44 »

The trailer is looking really nice. but I have a couple of questions:
why even change the colors of windows? the green/ smoky blue ones were already pretty cool. also og 16bit renderer gave much more pronounced blues to the overall lighting.
midwide's eyes look much less horrifying then in the gory original. is this the finished look?
Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 23. March 2025, 08:45:41 »

But also, here's the current state of the midwife:

What about those ridges.. if they were fully modelled it would fit more perfectly within the (somewhat blocky) overall aesthetics imo.
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 22. March 2025, 13:06:43 »

I'm okay with the midwife. What really needs work IMHO is the hybrids, since they're one of the most common enemies in the game, but they currently look like "we have hybrids at home" knockoffs. Too clean, too puffy. They're supposed to look sweaty, bloody, and gaunt, like their bodies are being consumed from the inside of everything except the muscle needed to keep them walking around.

Yeah I'll be doing a pass on that too actually, shotgun grunt is too clean for sure.
Posted by: Dingus
« on: 22. March 2025, 03:52:43 »



When i'm a hybrid, just minding my own business, when I hear goggle's newly animated ass clip clopping his way around the corner
Posted by: icemann
« on: 22. March 2025, 03:17:13 »

New weapon animations - Meh

New models - Good.

Have to give SS2E a go when its out, to see for myself.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 22. March 2025, 02:35:51 »

I'm okay with the midwife. What really needs work IMHO is the hybrids, since they're one of the most common enemies in the game, but they currently look like "we have hybrids at home" knockoffs. Too clean, too puffy. They're supposed to look sweaty, bloody, and gaunt, like their bodies are being consumed from the inside of everything except the muscle needed to keep them walking around.
Posted by: Chandlermaki
« on: 22. March 2025, 00:39:42 »

But also, here's the current state of the midwife:

...oh wow. Color me legitimately impressed.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 21. March 2025, 22:42:45 »

facial animations? that needs to hit the spot really precisely else it will look off. we'll see.

the midwife has a bit too much going on down there as already mentioned.
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 21. March 2025, 22:36:05 »

But also, here's the current state of the midwife:

Posted by: eldrone
« on: 21. March 2025, 18:59:29 »

Amazing, i think this is one of the best changes so far:

I thought it was going to be this:

Posted by: Chandlermaki
« on: 21. March 2025, 18:16:30 »

Why isn't it totally uncapped? Perhaps it's done to properly sync players in co-op. What about single-player? NewDark allows totally uncapped frame rates.

I mean, sure, it technically does, but you have to lock the physics frequency, which leads to the camera and game itself (animations etc) looking mismatched and weird.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 21. March 2025, 16:56:22 »

My concern is that that animation is a specific motion that real-world snakes use when moving forward. So it looks "right" when the annelid worms are moving forward, but it'll probably look "wrong" when they're turning in place, and extra-wrong when they're falling and jumping. Unless they've figured out a way to change animations depending on what it's doing.

The original animation worked for both moving and turning because it was more subtle and lo-fi.
Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 21. March 2025, 16:43:20 »

Amazing, i think this is one of the best changes so far:
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 21. March 2025, 14:55:38 »

Before I forget it, just wanted to mention that a useful feature for modders would be some kind of mechanism for mods to declare a key action. E.g. say you install the "Rumbler Summoner" mod, then you automagically have a "Summon Rumbler" mapping appear in the keybind screen, that invokes the desired script when pressed.
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 21. March 2025, 13:43:54 »

Why isn't it totally uncapped? Perhaps it's done to properly sync players in co-op. What about single-player? NewDark allows totally uncapped frame rates.

It is uncapped, and without physics breaking.
Posted by: Dingus
« on: 21. March 2025, 12:51:27 »

You guys just don't get it, game preservation is all about spending six years to make goggle's balls sway back and forth as you run around the UNN Von Braun. This is what Larry Kuperman considers art
Posted by: vrubayka
« on: 21. March 2025, 12:46:42 »

Up to 144FPS performance with ultra-widescreen support

Why isn't it totally uncapped? Perhaps it's done to properly sync players in co-op. What about single-player? NewDark allows totally uncapped frame rates.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 21. March 2025, 09:44:00 »

there's a whole lotta "Look what we can do now!", and not nearly enough "But should you do it?"
this - print it, frame it, put it on everyone's desk. more often than not, less is more. and as mentioned before, whoever is telling the texturing team they are doing a good job, is not doing a good job, and needs to be told so, the (AI) textures are still off, and there is no real reason they should be.

also, while the objects are hires now, they also look somewhat gritty? most SS2 objects should look clean, this is/was intentional.
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 21. March 2025, 08:19:57 »

Of course they LOOK fine. Looking fine is literally the entire point of them. The problem is when they add gratuitously long fucking-around animations that increase the forced delay before you can shoot things.


Gameplay or timings are not impacted by animations, and disabling these is very easy.

They essentially use the downtime in the old animations and lerp into positions where needed.

But it's just a visual change.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 21. March 2025, 05:42:31 »

Of course they LOOK fine. Looking fine is literally the entire point of them. The problem is when they add gratuitously long fucking-around animations that increase the forced delay before you can shoot things.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 21. March 2025, 05:22:43 »

There's nothing wrong with having "draw" animations. Most games have them and they look fine.
Posted by: Pacmikey
« on: 21. March 2025, 04:45:49 »

Amazing work on the updated weapons and animations. Hype

actually very surreal seeing stuff like reload animations, in a good way of course
Posted by: Chandlermaki
« on: 21. March 2025, 04:10:08 »

While I agree that some of the weapon animations are a little... much, I'm still pretty happy to see them. It's going to go a long way towards making the combat feel less clunky, which is one of the main things I've seen folks complain about in regards to this game over the years. It never bothered me personally, but it's going to be a plus for anyone new to the game.

Since no one has said it, for simplicity sake, it comes out June 26, 2025. Technically closer to 26 years after but it is what it is.

Oh, thank heavens! What would we do without you?
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 21. March 2025, 01:54:46 »

I've been assuming, perhaps too optimistically, that all the weapon animations shown so far are reload animations. Any equip animation more elaborate than just lifting it up should be a hard no.

Jesus, I just noticed the wibble-wobble on the psi amp cable and the way the plug is jiggling in the guy's arm. This is military hardware, guys. That thing is flopping around like a two-dollar USB cable.

And the droid animation at 20 seconds in, there seems to be some sort of bounce in the leg movement, which makes no sense because it's a robot; they have rigid joints. The vanilla droid animations got this right. As goofy as they were, they at least looked like something purely mechanical, not like someone cosplaying in a robot suit.

It's like there's a whole lotta "Look what we can do now!" in these animations, and not nearly enough "But should you do it?" Lens flare syndrome ahoy.
Posted by: Livo
« on: 21. March 2025, 01:15:22 »

It looks like the protocol droids show visible damage, which is an excellent touch. Great job! Will the bigger droids also show damage? As for the animations: I think they were going for a "quickly flip weapon safety off or prepare weapon for action as the player raises it" look to jazz things up, and also explain the slight delay when equipping weapons in SS2. I understand why, it's a nice little visual flourish. The Fusion Cannon spinning rotor thing looks very nice!

The only animations I have questions about are the "delayed shotgun pump" & the "pistol slide rack". The pump action timing still seems a bit off, because the pump action is seen moving backwards twice: once immediately as it's fired, then a second time as Goggles pumps it to eject the shell. I imagined the shotgun as a dual pump/semi auto shotgun (like the Benelli M3), with the weird box thingy on the pump to accommodate it somehow. Thanks to the crumminess of their space shotgun design, the fore-end action doesn't actually cycle after the shell is fired: this forces Goggles to manually pump it. Same thing for the triple shot mode. In those cases, the shotgun fore-end or pump, simply wouldn't move whatsoever, UNTIL Goggles manually pumps it. It'd be a simple tweak, but I don't know if it can be done for the June release date!

Do certain skills like "modify"or "weapons" affect the shotgun (or any other weapon) fire rate specifically as well? Or just the reload speed? If the former, I guess you would have to also accommodate different speeds in your firing animations depending on player upgrades.

As for the pistol, this is mostly a pet peeve aka old man yelling at clouds. Pulling back the slide to chamber a round the very first time you equip the pistol is fine, but you'd be ejecting a perfectly good round if you subsequently did it every time you pull the pistol out. You could visually model this ejection but NOT have it affect your ammo capacity a la Metal Gear Solid 4, but why Goggles appears to be wasting vital ammo is a good question. More importantly, the racking slide animation is fine, but if the player has to fire ASAP as soon as they equip the pistol, having it jump from a larger animation to a much smaller firing one, would be very jarring. I know there's no manual safety on pistol slide in SS2, but having him thumb a safety off would be more straightforward. It'd be a lot less jarring to go from a brief "thumb swipes safety off" animation to an emergency firing one, compared to a "Slide being pulled back" one IMHO. Plus when Goggles puts the pistol away, you could have him put the safety back on as he does so ;)

One thing I didn't like in the Black Mesa remake of HL1, especially in custom maps, was that there was very detailed & pretty "admire/chamber a round for the very first time" animation, that only played the very first time you got a new weapon. Concept is great, but in practice, either you stood there admiring the genuinely nice work, because this particular level designer had placed it in a safe spot, OR you'd have to frantically fire at enemies the second you got a new weapon (BM custom maps are also notorious for this), thus skipping the animators hard work. Getting the Tau cannon in Questionable Ethics is a good example. It's a bit jarring gameplay wise.
Posted by: Xkilljoy98
« on: 21. March 2025, 00:31:23 »

Since no one has said it, for simplicity sake, it comes out June 26, 2025. Technically closer to 26 years after but it is what it is.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 20. March 2025, 21:39:06 »

uh, and while the original weapon (non)animations are not ideal, now there is way too much going on there. this isn't supposed to be Half-Life.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 20. March 2025, 21:21:40 »

New trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_rkpfW6c6M


All the new assets mostly look pretty good, but there are some obvious issues. Weird pastel coloration of some of the AIs. Hybrid faces still look too rounded compared to the gaunt original models. New inventory icons look to be a bit of a mess, with many of them too large and/or having a tilted 3D effect, which is just wrong for SS2's icon style. Chemical canisters now have some weird different font on them.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 10. March 2025, 05:06:01 »

Does this mean we can have a more accurate/realistic representation of the macarena?

If so, sign me the fuck up. In fact, just hook it up to my veins.
Posted by: Livo
« on: 09. March 2025, 13:18:15 »

eldrone
Fantastic to hear, that's wonderful news! I'm sure the scripting animation Squirrel system will encourage a lot more people to experiment with the editing tools!

I guess I'd better start learning how to animate in Blender and also how to code in Squirrel, if I want to attempt an in-engine cutscene mod, or a "career choice affects the type of sleeve the player has a la Gareth Hinds' concept art" mod, or any one of my utterly crazy ideas  :thinking:
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 09. March 2025, 12:49:11 »

a situation where Dark decides to be Dark and gets stuck on some step during an in-engine cutscene softlocking the game surely is less than desirable.

True, but this goes for pretty much anything in dark.

Scripted cutscenes would only lock up if the actual script execution locks up.

The game is actually full of in-game cutscenes, but most happen with the player still in control.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 09. March 2025, 11:40:35 »

a situation where Dark decides to be Dark and gets stuck on some step during an in-engine cutscene softlocking the game surely is less than desirable.
Posted by: CyrusVonNox2001
« on: 09. March 2025, 11:35:56 »

Chandlermaki
Ok, bad take on my part.
Posted by: eldrone
« on: 09. March 2025, 10:36:29 »

eldrone
Cheers, thanks for that info, I really appreciate it!

With the Squirrel based animation implementation for KexDark, does that make life much easier to port/create in-game scripted sequences, like the "Journey throughout the Many" hallucination, or Shodan's office reveal compared to the old engine? Or was that more a "Cinematic & camera tools for Dark was the real headache for Irrational & Nightdive" problem?

Hopefully Squirrel scripting for level-sequences will greatly benefit future modders and FM authors. Speaking of in-game engine scripted scenes & animations, I've posted about this before as the dumb ideas guy, but is there any possibility of some of the cutscenes being rendered in-engine with the improved tools? I DON'T mean the cheesy "Trioptimum von Braun promo with the fancy 3D ship fly-by" intro, that'd be way, way too fiddly & time-consuming to make! Just the actual "Goggles in his cryo-pod waking up", "Career choice shuttles leaving the station" and the final "Nah/don't you like my new look?" scenes.

Maybe the career choice shuttles could also be video files if Nightdive is really pushed for time, but in-game cryo-pod & ending would be fantastic, as you'd be able to see any graphical tweaks you're running displayed, rather than an awkward transition between engine and video. I've seen a few Let's Play videos of people running SHTUP or other mods, being taken aback at the abrupt quality shifts, as they didn't know about the video files prior.

The idea has crossed my mind a few times but all the cutscenes are still hand-remade and pre-rendered like before.

It would absolutely be possible though.


This is made as modders tools, so like you said, a fan mission or a mod could make something like a small cutscene without having to deal with shocked setups, or for example add something without having to edit SCP .mis files.


But the idea is just a table you create in squirrel that has a series of events at certain time points. Like teleport camera, move camera from point a to point b over time, trigger a TurnOn message on something, spawn an object, make an AI walk somewhere, fade in fade out etc.

At the end of it the cutscene state is cleaned up and game returns to normal.


And then you just send a message such as PlayCutscene with the name of the cutscene to the player object and it'll trigger.
Posted by: Livo
« on: 09. March 2025, 07:55:47 »

ZylonBane
I know Nightdive said they were redoing some cutscenes in higher quality, like the "von Braun with crew members walking around" comparison in one of their promo articles. I was rather naively hoping it was a "we only did the very first ship flyby as a video file, due to the vast amount of work needed to make 3D spaceships in KexDark, but surprise, everything else is in-game!" situation. Very optimistic I know  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Actually, has Nightdive explicitly confirmed that ALL of the cutscenes are just higher-resolution video recordings of their updated models & textures? All I can find is articles that just say "Redone higher quality cutscenes", but nothing on the format type. A lot of those articles are badly written by people who genuinely are unaware of any mods for SS2, or haven't even played it apparently.
Posted by: Chandlermaki
« on: 09. March 2025, 05:36:46 »

I did see the screenshot for BotM and I think they should smooth out some of the polygonal map design, I know SS2 is from 1999, but I'm pretty sure none of our insides are that angular.

Great idea! Hop into DromEd/ShockEd, and let us know how that goes for you! Surely this is entirely possible in Dark and there will be no technical limitations whatsoever!
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