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Topic Summary

Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 15. May 2025, 21:10:42 »

Btw. regarding this new blood graphics - i have seen footage of a person lying in a pool of blood of similar size & at this amount of quantity it is not translucent at all, even if underground is bright.

Vanilla blood always struck me as very realistic depiction of actual blood puddles, blood is only translucent in small quantities & when smeared.
Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 06. May 2025, 16:04:21 »

:S

Somewhere in the changelog it says benches were added in hydroponics, i thought it was related specifically to beta 7. I've read complete changelog.

But a (defunct) ValueRep™, a bin & maybe even a plant would be nice. Would add livelyhood at least to a small section in an otherwise mostly relatively barren/sterile deck compared to med/sci, recreation etc. & make it feel more like actually being on the same ship. I know some maps/decks were made by different designers at looking glass (it is mentioned in end credits), so this would mitigate the obvious discrepancies with minimal effort.

It would imo even almost completely suffice to give player's the impression of unified design of the ship (regarding hydro, med/sci, rec, etc.), except one thing.... which leads me to this
Posted by: Da9L
« on: 06. May 2025, 09:34:21 »

Those benches have been there since 2017.

And you posted all that in the wrong thread.

Havent those benches been there since the release of SS2? I dont remember them ever NOT being there. If I'm not mistaken theres a nanite container thats supposed to be on one of them, that clips through the bench and lays on the floor instead
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 06. May 2025, 03:40:37 »

in that formerly barren room in hydroponics with the large glass-window - benches have been added
Those benches have been there since 2017.

And you posted all that in the wrong thread.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 06. May 2025, 00:31:18 »

does your PC not have a working print screen button?
Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 05. May 2025, 20:09:54 »

I just wanted to say that the changes in scp beta 7 concerning hangar bay in engineering - it is wonderful, MAJESTIC - & in that formerly barren room in hydroponics with the large glass-window - benches have been added, which already gives it in the player's mind a purpose of an actual waiting/quarantine room or so - are WONDERFUL. Thank gods.

I really hope those changes will find a way into enhanced/25th version. Icing on the cake would be a (functional) antigrav-crane in engineering hangar.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 05. May 2025, 15:30:45 »

ok, a few posts ago.
"ain't nobody got time for that" ALT+L
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 05. May 2025, 13:33:01 »

yeah that idea actually is terrible, as explained a few pages ago.
As explained on THIS page.
Posted by: Da9L
« on: 05. May 2025, 11:01:04 »

voodoo47
I guess its when you get to a point where you just want another challenge in the game, and having played it so much that impossible is no longer challenging enough.

On the other hand I've never tried going OSA .. like at all
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 05. May 2025, 09:28:26 »

pretty sure the part where you have to run somewhere naked to retrieve your stuff was there too.

"lets make everyone unload that one slug from the broken hybrid shotgun, it's immersive and they'll love it"
Posted by: Da9L
« on: 05. May 2025, 09:15:39 »

yeah that idea actually is terrible, as explained a few pages ago.

Wasn't that just about losing everything if you were regenerated using QBR?
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 05. May 2025, 08:57:22 »

yeah that idea actually is terrible, as explained a few pages ago.
Posted by: Da9L
« on: 05. May 2025, 07:57:50 »

Hot take regarding QBR's: Could be cool if you, when regenerated by a QBR, lost your inventory, BUT it would be stored somewhere for you to go pickup. Could probably also be explained lore wise if needed. Maybe it could even be stored on another deck, say somewhere on medical to embrace backtracking a bit more.

Btw maybe this should be taken to another discussion really
Posted by: Join2
« on: 21. April 2025, 05:52:03 »

It doesn't even look ok on paper, because it could very easily lead to infinite death loops if there are enemies around your corpse. Or your corpse might fall somewhere inaccessible.

Situations like this are acceptable in something like Minecraft where even if you lose everything you can always just craft more gear. But in SS2, with its brutally restricted resource economy, losing everything would be catastrophic.

You're not wrong. Losing everything would not be good. However, could always just do losing partial (half of inventory, never anything currently equipped like implants, weapon and armor), like Darkwood. But I don't really care all that much for this feature in the context of SS2. Would be nice if reconstruction chamber costs were slightly higher on impossible though, or required a separate resource, or something along those lines.
Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 20. April 2025, 18:42:15 »

with its brutally restricted resource economy, losing everything would be catastrophic.

i would volunteer to test it out i think, if such mod exists, i would do it.

i would get in, make a run & get out as fast as i can. i'm one of the people qualified enough for this anyways :l


and i don't need games acting as a nanny too :l
Posted by: notaavatar
« on: 20. April 2025, 18:32:30 »

I hate when a fun setting like insane difficulty is locked behind save point related stuff. I don't need my games to act as a nanny
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 20. April 2025, 01:54:49 »

this is one of those ideas that look ok on paper, but in real life game they are terrible.
It doesn't even look ok on paper, because it could very easily lead to infinite death loops if there are enemies around your corpse. Or your corpse might fall somewhere inaccessible.

Situations like this are acceptable in something like Minecraft where even if you lose everything you can always just craft more gear. But in SS2, with its brutally restricted resource economy, losing everything would be catastrophic.
Posted by: Join2
« on: 18. April 2025, 22:24:49 »

Oh look, it's this argument again. Death to unrestricted saving and sever the tongue of the heretics that support it!
Posted by: WhyHelloThere
« on: 18. April 2025, 15:44:01 »

...Yeah, pretty much.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 18. April 2025, 15:30:43 »

"ain't nobody got time for that" ALT+L
Posted by: WhyHelloThere
« on: 18. April 2025, 14:48:22 »

Oh yes..  but to mitigate impact make the player's health full when materializing in qbr chamber after successful resurrection.

Also: players can mitigate further by strategically placing redundant weapons, ammo, etc. next to qbrs or somewhere else. It would add a whole new gameplay loop & tie everything nicely together + perfectly mitigate the (imo) lack of (objective-based/mission related) inter-deck backtracking in the base game.

The tricky thing is, with a situation like this, you're not gonna recognize how to properly engage with it until you're replaying the game, or at least start to get good at it. But when a game's systems are frustrating and unfun the first time, you don't want to get good at it - meaning a more negative perception of the game overall.

Gabe Newell once said that game developers can be considered "experimental psychologists," and this is a perfect example of that. If the game is too frustrating, there's no psychological drive to learn how to do it, but rather just to get it over with.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 18. April 2025, 12:00:08 »

this is one of those ideas that look ok on paper, but in real life game they are terrible.

"lets have the player unload a single slug from the jammed gun each time they kill a shotgun hybrid, that ought to be fun, right?"
Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 18. April 2025, 11:41:35 »

that seems really intense

Oh yes..  but to mitigate impact make the player's health full when materializing in qbr chamber after successful resurrection.

Also: players can mitigate further by strategically placing redundant weapons, ammo, etc. next to qbrs or somewhere else. It would add a whole new gameplay loop & tie everything nicely together + perfectly mitigate the (imo) lack of (objective-based/mission related) inter-deck backtracking in the base game.
Posted by: WhyHelloThere
« on: 17. April 2025, 19:27:34 »


how about "all aquired inventory items have to be looted from player's corpse after qbr resurrection" ?


So, basically make it so you're dead meat the moment you get in combat until you travel who-knows-how-far to your corpse? I'm all for rewarding survival, but that seems really intense, although it can work in some cases (the Minecraft mod Gravestones, or just Minecraft in general, comes to mind).
Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 17. April 2025, 18:42:09 »

Something to make the time after QBR-respawning problematic, to make the whole QBR experience to not seem like a magic solution.


how about "all aquired inventory items have to be looted from player's corpse after qbr resurrection" ?
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 15. April 2025, 23:01:48 »

Unless you're willing to post your own gameplay to prove it, I (and many others here, mind you)
Lol, "many" others. Like two others. You just can't help exaggerating.

All throughout the PC gaming landscape people use quicksave constantly. To the point that whenever a game releases without quicksaving people complain about it.
This is like claiming that people must deploy the airbags on their cars all the time, because they complain when someone makes a car without airbags. The whole point of quicksave is that it lets you save when YOU want to save, instead of relying on checkpoints.

Most likely you DO save too much, but you've convinced yourself that it's not a problem because you've never actually had to play through your mistakes so you don't know what that feels like.
Ooh, now we're to the projection part. "I'm not the one who's convinced myself everyone abuses quicksave. He's the one who's convinced himself that he doesn't!"

Tell me, last time you played through the cargo bays (the hardest part of the early game by far), how many times did you save?
I couldn't tell you, because I literally don't think about quicksaving unless I get into a situation where I might get one-shot by a surprise attack and have to replay a significant portion of the level. Mostly I just, y'know, get immersed in the game and forget that quicksaving is even a thing.

I've watched dozens of let's plays of SS2, and I've literally never seen one where the player compulsively hammered quicksave. Often they don't quicksave at all, ever, and just make hard saves occasionally when they're about to try something dangerous.
Posted by: Clandestine collaborator
« on: 15. April 2025, 18:01:17 »

i think super duper qbrs combined with deactivating quickload/save would make the game's saving system very similiar to say: super metroid, which is considered as one of the pinnacles of gaming...




Merging it with the Super Duper QBRs , [...] might be really good, so you can always respawn at a QBR, even if it's on a lower deck, provided you can meet the cost of




imo it is one of the last blockers/obstacles unleashing ss2's true potential....... what will happen if this is addressed?






I see you're still in denial that most people actually don't play like this.


I literally see this all the time. Granted, most people aren't mashing f5 literally every 2 seconds



There is certainly strong enough evidence that most people actually play like this

by very careful estimation [...] at least 70% of all players
and this is only estimated number, imagine the dark figures being even higher. I'm imagining 80% of the players mashing & scumming save & reload buttons like mad.
Posted by: Null1233
« on: 15. April 2025, 12:10:01 »

This is similar to the concept of "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."  People tend toward choices with the most guaranteed success, lowest friction, and lowest risk despite it often being less fun within games.  It's just human nature and good game design includes preventing the player from making these choices instead of more interesting and more fun ones.

Said another way, most players will not choose to fail, even if failure creates unique scenarios and is fun.  If players can avoid failure by simply pressing a quicksave hotkey and sometimes a quickload hotkey they will do it.  Not letting yourself do this is an arbitrary restriction you have put on yourself, I think it makes the game more fun but you should not need to restrict yourself.  The game should just not let you make the unfun decision in the first place.  Generally save systems need friction, and SS2's save system has none.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 15. April 2025, 10:11:21 »

It's always funny when the people with no self-regulation assert that everyone else is like them. I guess it provides them some small comfort in their shame.

Unless you're willing to post your own gameplay to prove it, I (and many others here, mind you) aren't going to believe that we're somehow some strange minority that can't help ourselves.

When an action is easy to perform, people are going to perform it. All throughout the PC gaming landscape people use quicksave constantly. To the point that whenever a game releases without quicksaving people complain about it.

Most likely you DO save too much, but you've convinced yourself that it's not a problem because you've never actually had to play through your mistakes so you don't know what that feels like.

Tell me, last time you played through the cargo bays (the hardest part of the early game by far), how many times did you save? How many times did you load those saves by choice (rather than dying and being forced to reload or use a qbr)
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 15. April 2025, 00:50:58 »

It's always funny when the people with no self-regulation assert that everyone else is like them. I guess it provides them some small comfort in their shame.
Posted by: JDoran
« on: 14. April 2025, 16:56:03 »

I really want to make a mod (I hope it's possible) that turns QBR into reusable save points, potentially also with a nanite cost.

Oh yes, adding a suitable death-to-resurrection-via-a-QBR-booth penalty (rather than a generally too-minimal 10 nanites or whatever) might make QBR's seem less like a Deus Ex Machine solution (and yes, I realise the hypocrisy of my criticising QBRs for seeming too contrived and unrealistic, in a game where you have the always available meta solution of game-saving/loading  O_o). I don't think a nanite only cost would be enough, though. Perhaps if the QBR also strips you of a percentage of one or more ammo types, or when you respawn in a QBR then your health is very low. Something to make the time after QBR-respawning problematic, to make the whole QBR experience to not seem like a magic solution.

https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=11727.0

Merging it with the Super Duper QBRs , that Tiphares4 linked to, might be really good, so you can always respawn at a QBR, even if it's on a lower deck, provided you can meet the cost of the QBR resurrection.

I can't see the fun in mindlessly mashing F5 every 2 seconds so I can immediately revert any mistakes I make with no consequence, but hey, I guess I'm not a "true" gamer because I don't like free saving.

I overuse the quick-save key, and I imagine most people do to (in any action game with a quick-save option). It's human nature, I suppose, to take easy, painless precautions. In SS2 I tend to auto-save before and after most combat (unless it's utterly trivial), hacking, when research has finished, entering a new load area, etc.

It does lower the tension, and therefore arguably the enjoyment or at least the reality of the experience, but human weakness, etc.  If there was an option when selecting a new game that allowed you to turn of quick/manual save and loading, and instead only use QBRs, and maybe another option that would disable saving except that the game would automatically save when you entered a new load area (which of course you could load at will), and with the latter option you could chose to either allow or disable (super duper) QBRs, then that might be something I might like to try.

Posted by: Concealed Commentator
« on: 14. April 2025, 12:21:05 »

i think using super dooper™ qbrs as checkpoints without quickload/save would be perfect game save method  :v

also it would be a huge step perfectionizing one of the best games - even by very careful estimation i think at least 70% of all players are guilty of using save-spamming or whatever if its called.
Posted by: JDoran
« on: 13. April 2025, 13:14:47 »

There is no perfect game save method. Quick-save, checkpoint, QBR, etc, they all have their advantages and disadvantages, but quick-saving is the most comfortable, of course, and probably the best of those available.

A no save-game mode would be interesting , where (just like in real life) if you die then it's game over. This would really ramp up the tension, and make your important decisions irreversible, and you'd have to be constantly on your toes and ready for anything. That would be a very intense experience. It would also be insufferably aggravating when, near the end of the game, you get killed in an encounter with a couple of respawning enemies. But anyone who wants to try this (in other games it's called 'an 'Ironman' run) is of course free to do so now, it doesn't need a new mod written to allow this. Just save the  game when you have to turn off the PC, and you're only allowed to reload that game-save once, the next time you continue playing the game.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 13. April 2025, 02:32:26 »

well the game gets harder, and further decks take longer (with some exceptions). Rickenbacker for me at least takes bloody ages.

So I guess ramp up exponentially?

Given there's 9 "missions" (Eng/MedSci/Hydro/Ops/Rec/Command/Rick/Many/Shodan), I would guess some of the later ones will take you over a day, so maybe (3 * 1.5) + 6 which is 10.5 days.

That seems a bit long, though.

I see you're still in denial that most people actually don't play like this.

I literally see this all the time. Granted, most people aren't mashing f5 literally every 2 seconds (which is purposely a hyperbole I use to demonstrate the problem), but I repeatedly see that people are on average saving quite frequently (usually after each major fight at least), and are still missing out on a lot of the consequences of gameplay as a result.

Generally people will save before a challenge, and then reload repeatedly until they complete the challenge reasonably well.

But when you're beating every fight at 80% health it undermines the resource management systems that are so crucial to these sorts of games.

This is why so many people finish SS2 with tens of med hypos in their inventory. Because they have effectively deleted all the instances where they would really need them.

The same is true for nanites.

Don't tell me you've never had low HACK skills, saved right before attempting to open a crate, failed multiple times, then reloaded.

The problem isn't literally saving every 2 seconds, which most people don't do. The problem is that the way in which people save, and the frequency in which they do, largely undermines resource management in many games because you can repeat fights over and over again until you complete them efficiently, and you never have to play through your mistakes

Do me a favor and try GMDX on Hardcore mode (or, on the newest version, with the Save Restrictions gameplay modifer on any difficulty) and tell me afterwards with a straight face that the addition of save points weren't a direct improvement to the gameplay. Playing this way you will find yourself running low on medkits and biocells constantly, and your equipment being drained a lot of the time, and it's wonderful. You won't see your equipment "bubble up" and fill your inventory because you'll actually be using it to fix your mistakes, rather than reloading.

I feel like we've had this discussion before...
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 12. April 2025, 21:17:26 »

speaking of brains, math me this - if I can betatest Medsci in one day, and that's about 10% of the game, how many days will I need to betatest the entire game just once?
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 12. April 2025, 20:54:12 »

Some people just have a stronger dorsolateral prefrontal cortex* than others.
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 12. April 2025, 19:01:41 »

I'd also like to believe most people can control themselves to a certain degree.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 12. April 2025, 17:52:23 »

I can't see the fun in mindlessly mashing F5 every 2 seconds so I can immediately revert any mistakes I make with no consequence
I see you're still in denial that most people actually don't play like this.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 12. April 2025, 17:32:27 »

I really want to make a mod (I hope it's possible) that turns QBR into reusable save points, potentially also with a nanite cost.

This would remove degenerate quicksaving while also somewhat maintaining the in-universe lore while still somewhat stretching it a bit.

Save scumming is for babies.

Unfortunately save scumming has become so ubiquitous in PC gaming that everyone complains and calls you all sorts of names the moment you mention getting rid of quicksaving.

I can't see the fun in mindlessly mashing F5 every 2 seconds so I can immediately revert any mistakes I make with no consequence, but hey, I guess I'm not a "true" gamer because I don't like free saving.

The irony is, SS2 on Impossible is actually quite difficult mechanically. The reason so many veterans play on Impossible (and don't actually find it all that difficult) is precisely because you can simply undo every mistake you make with little consequence. Combine that with the horrendously broken balance of vanilla SS2 and you have a perfect storm of mindless uninspired gameplay. Yawn!
Posted by: Chandlermaki
« on: 12. April 2025, 04:31:56 »

No QBR, and only one save allowed at the start of each deck is how I usually play these days. Ramps the intensity up considerably and makes the game a lot more fun, IMO. Save scumming is for babies.
Posted by: icemann
« on: 11. April 2025, 04:30:22 »

I always use them. On a few levels they come in handy.
Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 10. April 2025, 14:42:03 »

I've never used the QBRs

I never used them too. Have a strong dislike for them with a passion since the beginning :l always wished they would begone without a trace.

BUT(!).... those Super Duper QBRs on the other hand might be a another matter entirely. Never tried it out so far, but: Either no qbrs for me or maybe super duper - this mod seems actually interesting; i imagine it would tie everything neatly together/making everything(the ship) feel more connected.... i always had the feeling that backtracking on the von braun was underused in vanilla.

Yes, will definitely try it in next playthrough..........


btw.: permadeath mod file expired      https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=11727.0

I would have liked to use it in combination with super duper qbrs
Posted by: JDoran
« on: 10. April 2025, 13:06:42 »

...maybe getting rid of those qbrs...

I've never used the QBRs in any of my playthroughs, I just use QUICK SAVE/SAVE. But I wouldn't them to be removed, as some people no doubt do use them, plus I might one day decide to do a playthrough where I rely on the QBRs and don't save the game at all. So I'd suggest either adding an option for the player to disable them in the game's options menu, or just leave them in and allow the player to use or ignore them as they choose.

I'm a big advocate of the player being able to play a game in whatever way they like.
Posted by: ZylonBane
« on: 10. April 2025, 02:13:01 »

It's one of the big gripes I think a lot of people have with the remaster.
I haven't seen a single complaint about this. It doesn't even make sense as a thing for players to complain about, since they can install whatever mods they want.

What I have seen lamented is that some of the visual upgrades will require SCP, but I can't imagine it will take long for someone to hack them back into vanilla.
Posted by: sarge945
« on: 10. April 2025, 01:42:12 »

Some mods are blessed with official support, and others are doomed to be community addons. It's one of the big gripes I think a lot of people have with the remaster.

It's the Revision/GMDX situation all over again.

Anyway, you should be able to install stuff, but I agree that having some community mods "blessed" with being preinstalled sort of discourages people to use other mods, in much the same way the mods not mentioned in the newbie modding guide already struggle.

At the same time, having them include every mod under the sun would be silly.
Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 09. April 2025, 18:06:41 »

:l i see, i understand... would be nice if some of those essential "mods" would come preinstalled with the enhanced edition™ though, or else many new players might will miss out..

personally i don't even perceive them as mods anymore, but as would-be-official-patches/fixes, but what do i know......
Posted by: voodoo47
« on: 09. April 2025, 17:47:50 »

you will be able to load additional mods.

anything modern should have no issue, old stuff probably not, unless updated.
Posted by: tiphares4
« on: 09. April 2025, 17:44:58 »

Maybe someone wants to comment that picture/screenshots below..

All those new assets look awesome imo :) especially that plant on the right for instance, makes one wondering if it's made by that vurt-person or somebody else.

That monstera or whatever it is seems to fit perfectly within the style & atmosphere of ss2. And i really really hope assassins with rapiers will make it in as a toggable feature at least - since it always felt like a cut feature - and also the ability to finally hack droids & repair turrets & medbeds/medkeys, having crystal-shard hybrids appear, randomizer & maybe getting rid of those qbrs at all as well, etc. etc. .. maybe there should be a community poll for it.

Maybe someone from nightdive or someone else can comment more on it?

Posted by: bobf5
« on: 27. March 2025, 19:38:24 »

On a different note, will there be any additional or updated sounds for SS2 Enhanced? Like the exotic weapons reloading & changing fire modes sounding more organic & gross, rather than reusing the standard metallic ones for example? Goggles is loading worms from a beaker & doing god knows what to a weird fleshy thing to change fire modes, it should sound a little icky.
Would love to see additional sounds specifically as a togglable option.

On that note, most of SS2's original sound sources are listed here: https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=cck2s8u6d8tbq290gj2herdnfr&topic=13051

And on top of that, at least four other sound libraries were used as well:
The Works https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RJOGPrH8VPAPWxbN34C_jJDuu3EbvUNH/view?usp=sharing (also used in Star Trek!)
Digiffects https://soundideas.sourceaudio.com/track/41254608 (heard in Prefontaine's final log, would make a good extra sound for the teeth)
Hollywood Edge Animal Trax https://soundideas.sourceaudio.com/track/11508651 (the worms are bears in disguise!)
Hollywood Edge Premiere Edition 1 https://soundideas.sourceaudio.com/track/11473643

Modders, Nightdive, whoever: make good use of this knowledge ;)
Posted by: Livo
« on: 27. March 2025, 13:42:39 »

Good lord that's a lot of trigonometry calculations.

On a different note, will there be any additional or updated sounds for SS2 Enhanced? Like the exotic weapons reloading & changing fire modes sounding more organic & gross, rather than reusing the standard metallic ones for example? Goggles is loading worms from a beaker & doing god knows what to a weird fleshy thing to change fire modes, it should sound a little icky.
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