SS2 Randomiser

[6741ab18c4da2sarge945]

Here's a new beta version that should HOPEFULLY fix any potential items falling through the floor. It might actually make everything worse, though.

1.21 Beta:
- Attempted fix for objects falling through floor.
- Objects now use radius instead of a fixed height for spawning, which should result in less objects "jumping" after being spawned
- Added a "Less Shotgunners in MedSci" addon (Less OG-S)

[6741ab18c51ebtiphares4]

I might make you a custom version

This is nice..   SS2 developers / modders are the best     :l

[6741ab18c52f8sarge945]

Now if only anyone actually downloaded any of my mods...

[6741ab18c5454voodoo47]

welcome to SS2 modding, where your mod doesn't matter because it's not SHTUP.

[6741ab18c5519sarge945]

And when they do, they post bug reports in the wrong thread and don't elaborate enough to get anything fixed.

[6741ab18c55edvoodoo47]

we wouldn't want it any other way.

[6741ab18c590cgunslinger12]

sarge945
Thank you for the fix, I played through 2 different games and could only find 3 toxin A containers each time on Deck 3 on v1.20. Had to use the console command to proceed. I'll try this beta to see if it happens again.

You may want to post an edit in the first post of this thread since I didn't realize there was a 1.21B bugfix until I had a problem. Thanks again for putting this mod together; it's a breath of fresh air for this classic game!

[6741ab18c5c10gunslinger12]

gunslinger12
I've been playing with the beta 1.21B and I found 4 Toxin A containers on deck 3, which is great. Anecdotally, I seem to be finding more things on the floor in general this time, which may mean that they fell through the floor on version 1.20 playthroughs. Could just be my bias though. Thanks again for this fantastic mod.

[6741ab18c5eccJoe]

sarge945If it makes you feel any better, I love your mod. 

[6741ab18c6028sarge945]

@voodoo47 can you please transfer the download counts of 1.21B and 1.2 to the new 1.22 version so I can nuke the old ones?

The only change from the beta and the official version is the version number.

[6741ab18c6127voodoo47]

I see only 1.2s and 1.22s though?

[6741ab18c6206sarge945]

Yeah I screwed up the versioning and I'm too lazy to change it.

[6741ab18c6315voodoo47]

so, whatever 1.2 count move to whatever 1.22?

[6741ab18c63f1sarge945]

yes, plus the whatever 1.21B count

[6741ab18c64advoodoo47]

still don't see no 1.21b anywhere but done.

[6741ab18c6729sarge945]

still don't see no 1.21b anywhere but done.

It was here

https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=12152.msg152150#msg152150

But the download counts for it probably don't matter all that much.

[6741ab18c681evoodoo47]

ahh ok. edited.

[6741ab18c69aasarge945]

Here are some potential ideas for the next version, let me know what you all think:

- Environmental Regulators randomised to new positions
- Sim Units randomised to new positions
- an optional addon to randomise camera and turret positions, allowing them to appear in new spots. Not sure how possible this would be with alarm ecologies
- Security Computers randomised to new positions around the map.
- A bunch of new spawn locations, and some new logic to prevent too many items from appearing in one location if an area has lots of possible spawn locations.

Anything else I've missed?

To really do this properly will probably be another 100 hours or so on a mod I've spent 500 hours on, just because I'm a perfectionist and placing everything and testing everything takes an insane amount of time once you factor in things like item filters, whether or not spawn spots are secret, whether or not to allow junk, etc.

I just hope enough people play it to make it worth it.

[6741ab18c6b17tiphares4]

:l since nobody else dares to reply.. yes... yes, that would be awesome. I hope randomizer in general will be one of those toggable integrated mods of the enhanced edition : )

I'm trying to think & to come up with further ideas for randomization, maybe os & cyber-enhancement upgrade stations as well?

[6741ab18c6f4asarge945]

I hope randomizer in general will be one of those toggable integrated mods of the enhanced edition : )

There's nothing worse as a mod maker than having your work picked up by someone else, especially if it's an older version, and then sold. Doubly so if you get nothing in return.

I could just imagine the sheer number of "sellout" emails...

I'm trying to think & to come up with further ideas for randomization, maybe os & cyber-enhancement upgrade stations as well?

OS upgrade stations make sense actually. I might add that.

[6741ab18c7121ZylonBane]

FFS, no community mods are going to be "integrated" into SS2EE. It's going to have a built in general-purpose mod manager, and some community mods will be included (i.e. pre-downloaded) by default.

Presumably the description for each mod will also include where to go to check for updates, which puts players in no different a situation than if they downloaded the mods themselves. It's always been up to the individual to keep on top of updates.

[6741ab18c7686sarge945]

FFS, no community mods are going to be "integrated" into SS2EE. It's going to have a built in general-purpose mod manager, and some community mods will be included (i.e. pre-downloaded) by default.

Presumably the description for each mod will also include where to go to check for updates, which puts players in no different a situation than if they downloaded the mods themselves. It's always been up to the individual to keep on top of updates.

You severely overestimate the intelligence of gamers.

If they weren't already playing the standard version using ss2tool, there's little chance they are going to bother to read changelogs, look for updates, or go mod-hunting. As far as the average player will be concerned, they will go into the mod manager, tick some boxes, and hit play. If something breaks with one of the mods they will blame nightdive. If one of the mods gets out of date they won't update it.

(Stupid) people want their games to "just work" with no effort, reading or fiddling.

You're correct in that, from a technical perspective, a mod manager with included mods is essentially the same as what we have now, with a few steps removed. The issue is one of perception. Instead of being a community mod manager where all mods are downloaded individually, this will instead be seen as "official", which means people will have the expectation that they can simply enable what they want based on a brief glance of the description, and expect it to work forever, because Night Dive is expected to look after everything. Even if nightdive was to plaster a huge red banner at the top of the mod manager saying "PLEASE READ DESCRIPTIONS AND UPDATE AS NECESSARY", people are still going to treat it as if it should all just magically work.

As someone who puts a significant amount of effort into my work, and who also provides a donation link on my website, I'm really not interested in a bunch of people acquiring my mod elsewhere, not reading the readme, and thinking it's actually nightdives work (or, at least, some nebulus "community" mod attributed to nobody in particular). Especially if it also takes attention away from the excellent community mods on the forum, encouraging people to only play the "blessed" mods. If the randomiser was included, for instance, I'd really want people to play it with rsd since, while it works perfectly fine with vanilla and SCP, I feel the item distribution is better overall with rsd's item rebalance.

I'm probably overexaggerating here, I'm basing this off the general modder drama from when the Nexus added collections, which for the most part took attention away from the original creators and encouraged people to download from (and tip!) the collection creators instead, which was a major backwards step for everyone. Mod makers hated it because it took recognition (and money) away from them, and would result in a lot more false bug reports when the collection maintainer screwed up and broke their mod, usually by including an incompatible mod.

This is all largely moot anyway though, since nightdive has not asked to include any of my mods in SS2:EE, nor do I expect them to ever be interested in doing so, and I didn't intend for this thread to become a discussion on included mods vs manually downloading them.

[6741ab18c799cJoe]

sarge945Rather than just randomizing loot already contained in the map and shuffling it around, consider true randomization of loot outside of critical items, including loot found on enemies.

That's what I want to see, anyway. It was cool having the items in new spots, but unless I'm mistaken, that's the only randomized thing about them.

[6741ab18c7fe9sarge945]

sarge945Rather than just randomizing loot already contained in the map and shuffling it around, consider true randomization of loot outside of critical items, including loot found on enemies.

Loot on enemies is already (mostly) random.

The problem with a random pool vs shuffling the existing items is that SS2 has a very well designed item distribution already (for the most part), and I don't want to disrupt it. Making it truly random is likely to provide too many or too few toxin hypos, ammo, etc. Some items like Cyber Modules would still need to be shuffled anyway because changing the availability of CMs is a big no no.

This is especially important given the way the loot hose works.

This is a specific design choice that I'm sticking to.

That's what I want to see, anyway. It was cool having the items in new spots, but unless I'm mistaken, that's the only randomized thing about them.

Yes. But you say that like it doesn't already significantly change everything.