SS2 list of broken and lowpoly objects that need fixing

[67421de56239dZylonBane]

The standard for breakability in SS2 is that anything that doesn't display an HP bar goes down in one hit. In the vanilla game toilets actually take two hits from a base-level melee strike, but this may be reduced for consistency.

I didn't think toilets in Deus Ex even could be broken.

[67421de5627adJoin2]

I didn't think toilets in Deus Ex even could be broken.

They can't, but making things more interactive and the interactions more detailed is usually something I put a fair bit of focus on. In the case of toilets I haven't though for reasons encountered in this thread: no plumbing from the toilet to the ground, and I don't have an Olfred to make the destruction detailed enough as you have here.
Anyway, I have nothing more to add except Shock's toilets are in good in hands, so I won't interrupt further.

Edit: what I mean by I skip over toilets is I don't bother to give them handrails, paper dispensers, pipes etc, I don't renovate the areas themselves in the level editor as you and voodoo have. But in the case of existing interactive objects like toilet objects improved via scripting that's always something I consider, but without a modeller nothing appropriate can be done for toilet destruction in particular.

Gah, I'm creating potential confusion with British English when I know you're American. We call lavatories toilets themselves, as well as the actual object. Over here the word lavatories is rarely used. Signs say "Toilets".

[67421de562dd0Olfred]

Good thing in german saying it both ways it acceptable
And I thought you had a modeller now. I wouldn't mind modeling something, but getting it out and into the game is just a big hassle which holds me back (time constraints). Or actually, getting to the point of knowledge where and how to do it.

And (porcelain or similar) toilets are pretty easy to break with one hit, even with a small hammer. And just consider that ingame you have a big wrench. Usually toilets are hollow from the inside.

realistically, a toilet on a spaceship would be made of material that would not be smashable.

Well, everything else on the ship (living quarters and such) is pretty much normal household ware, so I would say there are normal toilets.
Maybe on the Rickenbacker which is more of a military vessel.

Err, and I should have mentioned this earlier, but I kind of forgot about it. Toilet drains on the floor are actually already canonical in the game, via the broken toilet in medsci2:

Good point. But the developers could also be wrong about it
Given the size and shape of the toilet it wouldn't work properly this way. But whatever, space toilets, everything is possible!
I mean, why is there steam coming from the drain? Do they burn the shit?

[67421de562ec8ZylonBane]

SCP does actually change that weird steam jet to water.

[67421de562fe0Olfred]

Something just struck my mind, how it would make sense that the hole is in the floor.
Vacuum toilets. It's even pretty common on ships.
Behind the toilet is like a hatch/flap which you activate with the flushing button/lever. Behind it, it leads to a piping system which is constantly in a "sucking" state. With this you don't need a siphon.
It's basically the same as in planes.

[67421de56330cRocketMan]

That doesn't bother me so much since the entire station has simulated gravity, although a suction toilet similar to an airplane or space station would also make just as much sense. 

What bothers me more is trying to emulate a western toilet by [correctly] putting the floor drain in but NOT putting the plumbing into the wall, where it clearly ought to be.  Some sort of fitting and pipe/hose ought to be left behind where it would have mated up to the porcelain/steel/whatever... if you're going for authenticity.  Breaking the toilet and finding nothing but a smooth wall behind it makes no sense, even if you get the floor drain right.

[67421de56340aZylonBane]

It's a full-duplex drain. Sucks out waste then pumps water back in. That's why there's water gushing out of the broken toilet drain in medsci.

[67421de563560voodoo47]

and this concludes the two-page long space toilet analysis by systemshock.org senior forum members.

[67421de5636cfZylonBane]

Oh I think we can keep this going.

So here's the thing. I am not, in fact, obsessed with toilets. However, while there's not an insane number of them in the game, there are just enough that I really don't want to update them all more than once. So I damn well want to get whatever I do right and be done with it.

Regarding the water supply pipes. Yes, I agree, logically a toilet should have one. But here's the problem...  toilet water pipes in real life are tiny. Generally 1/2 inch diameter. In vanilla SS2, no terrain detail that I can recall is smaller than 0.5 units, which corresponds to 6 inches. Basically anything smaller than that is below Shock's terrain "resolution". Since SCP is all about staying faithful to the original look of SS2, modeling detail that fine into the terrain is a no-can-do. So in a sense the water pipe IS there... you just can't see it.

[67421de563921RocketMan]

I have an easy solution to that. 

Create a large valve body from which the handle protrudes off to the side.  Mate the valve body flush with the wall... no pipes required.  Extend a somewhat smaller (minimum size possible?) cylinder down from the valve body to the back of the porcelain.  This solves the problem.  The water comes from the wall into the valve where you can't see it because it's mated flush.  Then the water drops down into the bowl via the large pipe, which can be large because it's part of the toilet rather than the surrounding architecture.

If the vertical pipe looks stupid at its smallest size, make a small pipe as part of the toilet model and simply give it a corpse of a loose pipe with a piece of porcelain sticking off 1 end.  The player can believe that when you hit the toilet it broke the solder joint or thread that held it to the valve body.  Since this approach utilizes a thin modeled pipe, it's believable whereas a huge pipe, while being unbreakable, could be made in level geometry.

[67421de563cf1Olfred]

So here's the thing. I am not, in fact, obsessed with toilets. However, while there's not an insane number of them in the game, there are just enough that I really don't want to update them all more than once. So I damn well want to get whatever I do right and be done with it.

What about this. I make a model, same origin/size of the toilet model but it's only the pipes, drains, whatever is left over.
Now you would only need to edit the "mother" toilet instead of doing it for all one by one, right?
Could even add a vhot for dripping water stuff.

[67421de563deeRocketMan]

LOL @ mother toilet

[67421de563f97ZylonBane]

True, anything handled at the gamesys level automatically applies to every descendant object in the game.

I currently have a mostly-satisfactory solution in place where smashing a toilet spawns the two standard debris pieces AND positions the standalone handle model Olfred made where the handle on the full model was, so it looks like just the bowl is smashing. Unfortunately the lighting on the handle visibly changes when this happens. I'm not sure if it's a model difference or due to how Dark calculates lighting. I also tried the other toilet corpse object Olfred made, where the handle was in the same relative position as the full model, but that one had visibility bounding box issues-- when viewed close up and mostly off-screen, the handle would disappear because Dark thought the model was completely off-screen.

While it would be possible with this setup to add a water supply hose sticking out of the wall, I'm not wild about the idea. It would be tough to model something that looked natural just poking through a blank wall face. It would also have to be tolerant of inconsistent object placement. Not every toilet is positioned a perfectly consistent distance from its back wall.

[67421de5640b0Olfred]

Well, whatever works best.
Can you give me something like a DML mod so I can check to get the lightning issue sorted out?
And how do you make ShockEd load DMLs again?

There was this problem that you can't make one model into two right?
So splitting handle and toilet completely doesn't work.

[67421de5641fdZylonBane]

Attached is a copy of the current gamesys. When toilets are smashed they corpse to model toicorp.bin at the same coordinates as the toilet. Currently using the toi3.bin that was the handle only for this. That's the one that had visibility issues.

That box is how big DromEd thinks the model is. So if you walk right up to the handle it disappears, because Dark thinks it's completely offscreen.
[toiletries.7z expired]

[67421de5642e3Olfred]

So, what do I need to do to have this active in ShockEd?
Don't want to run around till I finally find a toilet.

[67421de5643e4ZylonBane]

Just go to your SCP install, copy the bin file into the obj folder, then make a backup of shockscp.gam and copy in the new shockscp.gam. Then load a level with toilets. I've been using medsci2. There's a couple of bathrooms in the crew sector on the right end of the map.

[67421de5645a8Olfred]

Oh, I've been using a regular vanilla installation and BMM to test things out.
I don't have a dedicated SCP install.

[67421de56468dOlfred]

I did as you said, still nothing.

[67421de564774voodoo47]

you will need a scp map for the gamesys to kick in.

[67421de564869Olfred]

Ah, that's it, thank you.

[67421de564981Olfred]

Check out if this works better.
I changed the shading of the flush knob and gave the toicorp a custom bbox.
[toilet and corpse.zip expired]

[67421de564a88ZylonBane]

There's still a lighting shift when it switches models. Looks like the front face of the handle in the corpse model becomes flat-shaded.

[67421de564bf4Olfred]

A lighting shift is unavoidable because, yeah, the lighting changes when you destroy it.
I changed the shading on the model to minimize it.

I've checked in different lighting locations now and I don't see a big, to no, difference when I smash the toilet.
Have you made sure that both models are loaded?