SSR: System Shock Kickstarter

[67417c31c67e8vurt]

I don't think SSR is supposed to be a throwback to the old times like Ion Fury

The pixels is just a visual style they went with, they probably just thought it fits well for the theme.. In cyberpunk movies / novels and games we can often see computers using 1980's style of graphics / interface with black background and green text, even though that does not make too much sense either.

I'm quite neutral about it, i understand why its there, it looks more digital and perhaps maintains the cyberpunk vibe a bit more.

[67417c31c6a0avoodoo47]

well, it's not a show stopper as far as I'm concerned (unlike the Doom64 KEX no mouselook, once that's been confirmed, I was out), but it's  still the most WTF thing I've seen.. maybe in the last decade? as mentioned, if your feature looks like the gpu glitching out, it's probably not a good feature.

SSR is SS1 remade in a modern engine, so it can look like a modern game, that's literally it (pixel lovers can always fire the KEX port up). why would anyone try to make the graphics look worse intentionally is beyond me. ketchup on a steak, anyone?

[67417c31c6b26vurt]

I do agree that it's odd and a bit bold, the boldness i do see as a good thing, it's hardly like they're aiming for commercialism.

[67417c31c6e8aZylonBane]

In cyberpunk movies / novels and games we can often see computers using 1980's style of graphics / interface with black background and green text, even though that does not make too much sense either.

They use those effects on computer screens, not reality itself. What Night Dive is doing with the unfiltered textures actively takes me out of the game. It's like they don't understand that System Shock is an immersive sim, not an arcade-style FPS.

[67417c31c6fd6la0s]

It is simply bad taste.

[67417c31c7163Chandlermaki]

Wasn't there a filtering option in the Unity build of the demo? It wasn't perfect, because the textures themselves weren't great, but the pixelated look was at least reduced to the point of not being too distracting.

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how stupid this design choice actually is.

[67417c31c7282voodoo47]

yes, but no such option in the current build. I think it's been mentioned somewhere that we may get it later, but yeah, just like in the unity demo, it will just blur things out, not solve the underlying issue. uhh, feature.

SHTUP SSR, maybe?

[67417c31c73ffNameless Voice]

I didn't find it too bothersome on the terrain and small objects, but as I've said before, the characters look really awful with such low-resolution textures.

[67417c31c76f3vurt]

They use those effects on computer screens, not reality itself. What Night Dive is doing with the unfiltered textures actively takes me out of the game. It's like they don't understand that System Shock is an immersive sim, not an arcade-style FPS.

Yeah what i meant is its just a style they're going for, might not make sense unless you understand where they're coming from. And yes this is more extreme for sure.

Not sure why pixelated graphics would be something that should be exclusive to arcade style FPS games though.
 

[67417c31c7acaicemann]

The pixels is just a visual style they went with, they probably just thought it fits well for the theme.. In cyberpunk movies / novels and games we can often see computers using 1980's style of graphics / interface with black background and green text, even though that does not make too much sense either.

Now see an example of this done well in a videogame is Alien Isolation. They took the retro future (tech wise) of Alien and applied it to all the tech you see in the game. So all the computers display DOS level graphics, and yet the games graphics are great. So it can be done well, and that game nailed it.

Observer is another, which had no prior source for it's computer screen style:

[67417c31c7d50Kolya]

As we've discussed many times before, cyberpunk nowadays isn't a dystopic vision of the future anymore, as it was at the time of it's invention.

It is now an alternate history fiction genre that's closely tied to the 1980s - early 90s, like steampunk is to the Victorian era.

You know what else is closely tied to and highly evocative of the 80s/90s? Pixelated video games. One of which is the original System Shock.

So even if the pixelated look wasn't intentional at the time of it's creation, it's a perfectly valid artistic choice nowadays. Because time has moved on and the meaning and perception of cyberpunk and System Shock have changed.

It's not the only possible choice to approach this remake and no one is obliged to love it, but stop acting like it was somehow objectively wrong.

[67417c31c80b7icemann]

As we've discussed many times before, cyberpunk nowadays isn't a dystopic vision of the future anymore, as it was at the time of it's invention.

It is now an alternate history fiction genre that's closely tied to the 1980s - early 90s, like steampunk is to the Victorian era.

Hence my mention of Observer, and it is great that despite the fact that we are now at the year or close to of many of the cyberpunk franchises, that they've not changed one bit. Just switched to alternate history.

[67417c31c822aKolya]

I also really loved Alien Isolation. But it had a movie source with already very distinct visual style. AI emphasized that (and made it a bit too glossy).

Similarly the pixelated look of SSR emphasizes the already pixelated look of System Shock. If SSR was made in the same style as Alien Isolation it wouldn't look like System Shock at all.

I'm not a huge fan of the pixel textures and the disco lighting. I get the criticism. But I also get how this is the impression people might have of SS and how they might interpret this impression in their recreation and come to this conclusion. It might not be my interpretation, but it's fine.

[67417c31c9313unn_atropos]

It is now an alternate history fiction genre that's closely tied to the 1980s - early 90s, like steampunk is to the Victorian era.

Maybe there is an issue with the stylistic reception?
In some cases, the visual representation of Cyberpunk seems to have shifted into a more cheesy "trashy" direction with lots of synthesizer music, mullets and hot pink grid backgrounds with VHS fragments. (An exaggeration of nostalgic rememberance)
For me, this is lacking some of the mystique, grimness and grittyness*.

And maybe the disappointment about the pixel look stems from the wishfull thinking that everyone maybe wanted this remake to have a unique look never seen before, but they stopped at "remember pixel? wasn't that something?"

*Though this may have become a clicheé by itself now...

[67417c31c9478Kolya]

Grim and gritty cyberpunk is the world we live in. And we're not even the good guys in this. It tends to shed the mystique real quick when you realise you would rather have a new iPhone than escape to Russia.
How is any work of art supposed to engage us in a serious story about fighting the megacorps when we've clearly made our choice? That's where the nostalgic, disneyfied version of cyberpunk comes in.

[67417c31c95f7fox]

There will always be room for updated visions of a gritty near-future and noir'ish ways to tell them. It'd probably better to not call it Cyperpunk anymore since that label indeed became associated with retro-futurism now - which is only fair, I think.   

[67417c31c9903ZylonBane]

In some cases, the visual representation of Cyberpunk seems to have shifted into a more cheesy "trashy" direction with lots of synthesizer music, mullets and hot pink grid backgrounds with VHS fragments. (An exaggeration of nostalgic rememberance)

That's not cyberpunk, that's the 80s.

[67417c31c9d73la0s]

As we've discussed many times before, cyberpunk nowadays isn't a dystopic vision of the future anymore, as it was at the time of it's invention.

It is now an alternate history fiction genre that's closely tied to the 1980s - early 90s, like steampunk is to the Victorian era.

You know what else is closely tied to and highly evocative of the 80s/90s? Pixelated video games. One of which is the original System Shock.

So even if the pixelated look wasn't intentional at the time of it's creation, it's a perfectly valid artistic choice nowadays. Because time has moved on and the meaning and perception of cyberpunk and System Shock have changed.

It's not the only possible choice to approach this remake and no one is obliged to love it, but stop acting like it was somehow objectively wrong.

I beg to differ. System Shock was visually as good as LGS managed back then, it was an attempt to make Citadel station an immersive arena for the player, the goal was to create a believable space. What the pixelated look does is create an artificial layer over the world, and a strange stylistic in-between look of a retro FPS and “not quite AAA 2020-FPS”.

I do not believe that System Shock, if made by the same people to day, would have opted to go for a deliberately retro look. The pixels are (as we all know) a product of what was possible back then, why not go for the same now.

It sure is opinionated, but coherent with the System Shock-style it hardly is. It is a interpretation of System Shock 1, that really feels misguided and based on a misplaced sense of nostalgia. I feel they already have the atmosphere more or less down on what I’ve seen, and the pixelation is too much, in away it is insecure, a layer of style not needed.

Maybe their argument is something like: the level design is blocky and old fashioned, so we wanted make the overall look fit with that?

[67417c31c9eb9Kolya]

They don't seem to feel insecure about it.

[67417c31ca042edx]

June 2020 Kickstarter update: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/2858271

[67417c31ca18dGawain]

Character animations look good. A little bit comic, but very well done.

[67417c31ca307hemebond]

I didn't know a wobbly brain could unnerve me so much. I hope it pops when shot.

[67417c31ca413icemann]

Things looking good. I like the new enemies models. Different to the original, but meh this is it's own thing I guess.

[67417c31ca5e6Briareos H]

To me the ideal aesthetic is at the barycenter of the 90's cyberpunk references the original team used, the game box art, the high-quality models used for in-game sprites and the look of the original cutscenes. I'd say they managed to pull that off well enough. I was really worried about outrun overload or them pushing for a bland, realistic look like in SS2 (this would have been the worst).

As for the pixels, I don't mind them as I've always been a staunch supporter of GL_NEAREST in Quake. Even if this is just a filter (is it?) the look does please some primal part of my brain.

Besides that, the demo was ok. I'm still not sold on the interface, plus it's still a pointless remake in my book and one I would rather not have seen, but what can I do.