SCP Beta 4 Issue Reporting

[6742503d68ff6ZylonBane]

Just noticed that the character MFD displays your OS upgrades as "TRAIT"s, which is what they were originally called early in development (in fact DromEd still internally calls OS upgrade units "Trait Machines"). Anyone know what the German version says here?

[6742503d691aevoodoo47]

WESEN? no idea, my german is failing me here.

if you need to check DE resources and have SS2 on steam, you can switch to the DE build in a matter of seconds.
[wesen.jpg expired]

[6742503d69333ZylonBane]

Google Translate says "Being", which doesn't mean anything like OS or Upgrade, so I'm guessing someone translated Trait as literally as they could.

[6742503d695e8Olfred]

There are several viable translations for "trait" in german. But they are all quite long. So whoever did the translation picked on that could be shortened and still make somewhat sense. Another word which might still be okayish and not shortened would be "Merkmal". But that's still longer.

[6742503d6980dsarge945]

Merkel?

[6742503d69bb3ZylonBane]

Relax people, I just wanted to know if the German version carried over the same mistake as the English version.

Moving on, in reference to the discussion here regarding players quite reasonably not being able to remember where the Ops deck Command Center is when they have to go back there to kick the Ops Override computer:

I have to admit I've always found the Command Center location to be completely forgettable. It's just this tiny boring-looking room crammed in at the end of a branching hallway that you have to traverse almost the entire level to reach. It doesn't have a sign, it doesn't have any floor arrows pointing to its location, its access card has the wrong name ("Ops Override"), and the player has to remember which of the four Ops maps it's even in.

Yeah, it's not exactly designed as something that will stick in the player's memory multiple hours after having last seen it:

And it's the size of a broom closet inside. Certainly nothing I'd consider worthy of the name "Command Center":

So at the risk of slipping down the Deus Ex: Revision slope, I figured I'd take a whack at fleshing out the command center. It can't be made much larger due to where it's shoehorned into the level, so I just made it as big I could, cloned the consoles already in there, and added some detailing. The idea is to put something sufficiently interesting-looking behind those windows so that players will really look forward to eventually getting in there, thus giving them a better chance of remembering it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtOP_GkNHd0

I would have preferred to use the vertically-opening blast door so the windows could be closer to the center, but that door type isn't used on any of the ops deck levels so it didn't fit in with the aesthetic. On the other hand, the small security door is used for the only time on Ops just around the corner at Bronson's last stand, so maybe I could get away with it.

Anyway, what do you think? Too much?

[6742503d69d61sarge945]

If anything, not enough.

In my opinion, the problem isn't the room itself (although you've certainly improved it), it's the corridor outside it. It's pretty forgettable because it's at the end of a drab, dark hallway that doesn't look like a "main entry" - the ramp next to it is far brighter and looks like the "right way to go", to the point where I feel a number of players didn't even bother going down there as it looks like a pointless extra decorative hallway with nothing in it.

I guess there's not much that can be done, but maybe some red flashing wall lights and some more interesting architecture could signature "this is an important location", which will help solidify the location without even looking into the room.

I would also recommend putting some dead bodies and broken turrets there, to signify the command center is something worth defending, but that has gameplay implications, especially with mods like repairman.

A "floor arrow" would help too

[6742503d69eeeJML]

The room is much better now, I like it. It still needs some ground-pointers on other parts of the level, but I think I read somewhere that you've planned that anyway.

[6742503d69ffevoodoo47]

I'd be ok with just some additional signs and arrows on the floor (still think one should be added to point at the correct bulkhead in the ops2 Xerxes room), but this is fine too.

and while significant changes to the level geometry are usually out of scope, I think we can make an exception here, for the reasons listed a few posts above.

[6742503d6a2e4RoSoDude]

Definitely an improvement with all the consoles and the tiered floors, sign above the door is a nice touch too. Agree with sarge that it could help to spruce up the hallway outside as well to point more attention there.

Any cool loot on the dead body in there? If so, couldn't hurt to make the body visible through the window to give the player something to look forward to.

[6742503d6a428Join2]

I couldn't even recall that this was supposed to be a command center, so good work.

[6742503d6a59dZylonBane]

And then there's another thing players commonly get tripped  up on, finding Delacroix.

Delacroix sends you the message to find her in the Command Deck shuttle bay when you first approach the second part of the Command Deck. But at this point it's impossible to reach her! The shuttle bays don't open up until much later, when you've gone back to the Ops Command Center, then back to Engineering Core Control to enter the override code, then back to Command, when SHODAN finally opens the door to the cargo bays so you can destroy the shuttles. By this point most players have probably forgotten about Delacroix.

So yeah, a game shouldn't be telling players to find something that it's impossible to find (at that time). I'm thinking it might be a good idea to make Delacroix not contact you until after you've entered the core override code.

[6742503d6a6b3voodoo47]

I think this may have been deliberate - the location is optional/quasi secret, so the player is given time to forget about the mail, meaning only those paying attention/remembering will be able to find it.

to make it short, I'd leave it alone - the signs have been fixed, the note is being logged properly, ought to be enough.

[6742503d6a93bJML]

voodoo47Story wise it makes sense to only get to Delacroix when paying attention and going the extra mile (pun intended). It's not like Shodan would remind you to find her.

[6742503d6aaa0ZylonBane]

This guy's video reminded me that SHODAN is invulnerable to melee damage. I've no idea why Irrational did this, since she's vulnerable to plain old bullets and explosives, and it's not like being able to use melee would give the player any sort of unfair advantage. In fact you take continuous damage from SHODAN when in melee range.

I'm thinking there would be no harm in letting players beat SHODAN to death with a wrench if they really want to.

[6742503d6abd5RoSoDude]

Yeah, I made it a 1x multiplier for WeaponBash in SS2-RSD. No reason not to support it.

[6742503d6ae14JohnSmith]

Hi guys. First, i would like to thank you for the wonderful work you are doing to improve this excellent classic. I think the visual improvements are great, and making the ops command more memorable is a great idea.

Is it only me, or is the laser pistol bugged, and does not apply the research bonus 25% damage increase?
I tested this in the beginning in MedSci, with Marine to get the starting laser pistol. First, just researching a hybrid organ had not effect on damage. Second to test more precisely, i loaded, and modified the laser pistol twice, and then increased energy weapons to 3 - this together with the research bonus should cause it to deal double damage if i am not mistaken. Again, no change to damage after researching the hybrid organ.

I tested research with normal pistol just to be sure, and the research bonus was applied properly - i could kill shotgun hybrid with 5 shots instead of 6, and normal hybrid with 2 pistol shots and 1 laser shot.

I also initially tried to test this with shotgun, but the results weren't adding up. I read in another thread that assault rifle and pistol were nerfed (without any numbers), but when i (finally) found the gamesys.dml file, i noticed it was assault rifle and shotgun that were nerfed (10 to 8 and 8 to 7 damage respectively). Is there a reason to nerf the shotgun? I mean, it is not a particularly good weapon anyway, due to the low rate of fire.

In any case, many of the changes scp does are good, and even the balancing changes make a lot of sense, but should be properly documented (with numbers) in the changelog, especially in the case of nerfs/balance changes which cause the information on the wiki to be wrong. For example the fix/nerf to sharpshooter - 35% to (assuming) 15% is rather big, to the point the increase is barely noticeable. I didn't see it in changelog, which is confusing since a lot of early game decisions depend on the relative strength of various bonuses.

[6742503d6af7dvoodoo47]

all the laspistol bonuses work, but as the pistol is so weak, they are hard to notice - basically, laspistol at energy6 twice modified will kill a shotgun hybrid in 6 shots, if you research the organ it's 5 shots. unmodified it's 7 shots and 6 shots. unmodified at energy 1 it's 12 shots. so yes, if you jack everything up, it's twice the damage, give or take.

I vaguely remember that the sharpshooter bug (+35% instead of +15%) has been fixed, but not by SCP, but by NewDark itself. so as long as you play it under ND, it should be 15%. //yeah, definitely NOT +35%, be it vanilla under ND or SCP. so you need the cd version if you want to have the old bonus.

[6742503d6b0fcJohnSmith]

Oh, i know the laser pistol damage is only 2. That is why i made the exact combination to double the damage, because then there is no randomness involved after all bonuses are applied.

1.25 (mod2) * 1.3 (energy 3) * 1.25 (research) = 2.03
So, a normal hybrid, which takes 6 shots at base, and which takes 4 shots without the research bonus most of the time, should always take only 3 shots after. This did not happen in my test, suggesting the research bonus didn't work.

I noticed this at first when using 0 research skill and only the implant, and since i read somewhere research bonuses didn't apply in that case, i tested it right at the beginning with proper research skill, just to be sure. No change, the research bonus still didn't work.

So, you can't reproduce this? Is this only on my side?

[6742503d6b263voodoo47]

remember, there is some rounding going on, so the damage output does vary slightly.

confirmed working properly - without the organ researched the hybrid will have no less than 2 hitpoints after the third shot, while with the organ researched he can go down to just one.

conclusion - as the laspistol deals very little damage per shot, it will not benefit from organ research as much as other weapons do. still, if you stack everything up, the difference will be quite noticeable.

[6742503d6b378sarge945]

If the tests I did in another thread is accurate, I don't think there's any rounding going on at all, save for the random roll at the end of the calculation to round up or down the decimal value.

Could that be biasing the results

[6742503d6b494RoSoDude]

As Sarge noted, decimal damage is "rounded" with a random weighting based on the remainder. So 2.03 * 2 = 4.06 damage is really 4 damage with a 6% chance to be 5 damage. So all of your damage bonuses are impactful, there will just be some variation with each shot.

[6742503d6b64cJohnSmith]

Precisely. And it took me a while to find this information, since most threads just mentioned rounding.
That is what i meant i tested it in a way that randomness shouldn't affect the results.

Without research: 2 * 1.25 * 1.3 = 3.25, which means always at least 3 damage, but 4 quarter of the time on average. When shooting normal hybrid, that means 4 shots most of the time, and my tests confirmed this to be the case.
But with research: 2 * 1.25 * 1.3 * 1.25 = 4.06, which means always at least 4 damage, with 5 a very rare occurrence. Which means a hybrid should always take 3 shots to kill, but in my tests it almost always takes 4, just as in previous case.

If you used the same other conditions, and you observed only 1 point of difference (and only sometimes), that definitely seems like a bug. A 25% bonus should not be that small of a difference, especially since modify, which has the same bonus, produces very visible difference. So does energy weapons skill. Sharpshooter is barely noticeable on its own, but can be tested this way as well (that is how i knew it was not 35%). Only research produces no difference, and only on the laser pistol (as far as i noticed). At least that was my result, with just scp and the recommended graphics mods.

[6742503d6b76fvoodoo47]

well, I can confirm there has been a difference, so cannot replicate (and yes, that just one point is a bit odd, but still, it is a difference, so some bonus is getting applied).

and even if I could, I'm very sure this is all handled by the engine, so there is very little we can do about it.