Gamesys editing

[67431efae2296GuyFawkesGaming]

After looking though all the old threads on these forums (particularly Pop's DAE mod) I just realized gore effects are possible in this engine! How difficult would it be for someone inexperienced (i.e. me) to strip the gore effects out of his mod and add them to a minimod for SCP? Also are ragdoll physics possible or would that require some Havok middleware crap?

[67431efae2527voodoo47]

they are possible, but will look awkward because of the simple physics, and no decal edge clamping. should be fairly easy to export into a minimod, but you will need a few archetype stubs in the gamesys for sure - I can add those for you, but the minimod will be SCP exclusive, just like Droid immortality. or you can try using the already available dml stubs (DML1-DML10, basically free archetypes that are available for modders who need them), but I think 10 won't be enough.

doubt that ragdolls are possible in any way.

[67431efae2884RoSoDude]

Aren't enemy models animated with a skeletal rig system? If so, there's nothing inherently stopping you from implementing ragdoll physics (I've actually programmed small-scale variants myself, it's not too hard if you know what you're doing, just tedious and not necessarily efficient). There may be other technical challenges and engine limitations, but it's not like games with vertex animation (e.g. Deus Ex) where you have to bake in the movements of every mesh point outside the engine.

[67431efae29bbvoodoo47]

pretty sure the AI motions is all you've got.

also, ragdolls tend to look weird unless they are spot on - Half-Life source would be a good example, I'd take the old hard set death animations over those ragdolls at any day, sloped surfaces be damned.

[67431efae2b45ZylonBane]

To do ragdolls you need collision detection at the end of every bone, and mass assignments, and joint constraints, and Dark doesn't implement any of those things.

Get real, people. This is a game engine that's over 20 years old.

[67431efae2c9avoodoo47]

however, I had moderate success with setting up a shovel to have a physmodel with two spheres so it would land somewhat realistically when dropped onto sloped surfaces, and this actually worked allright most of the time, however an AI model, despite using the same two sphere physmodel from the start, just refused to cooperate - seems like the engine force resets a lot of stuff there, which is a clear indicator that one should not stick fingers into that particular place.

[67431efae2d89ZylonBane]

I tried doing that with the wrench, years ago. I never got it working reliably.

[67431efae2e85voodoo47]

it won't work with items that can be placed into the inventory - so the wrench in SS2 is a no go, but a shovel in Thief should be ok.

[67431efae2ffdGuyFawkesGaming]

Well as per ragdolls, I have good news and bad news. Good news is I found open source alternatives to Havok and PhysX. Bad news is I don't know how feasible implementing them in newdark would be (mostly due to lack of experience). To add to the bad news, it would likely take months or even years to fully implement, let alone stabilize it (exactly how long did it take to make newdark?). A man can dream though, maybe in a few years.

Anyways, I think I've managed to narrow down which files are used for the splats, gibs and burn effects. Now I just need to figure out how to open the .GAM files.

[67431efae33b0ZylonBane]

Anyways, I think I've managed to narrow down which files are used for the splats, gibs and burn effects. Now I just need to figure out how to open the .GAM files.

Or y'know, you could just ask in Engineering how to open GAM files.

[67431efae3500voodoo47]

install the editor via the tool. also never load a gam without an actual mis file. and yeah, the gib and splat stuff resides in the gamesys, and also resource files (models and textures).

[67431efae35fcGuyFawkesGaming]

Not sure if this is the place to post this but I get an error when loading the gamesys. Also there are no mis files included.
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[67431efae36f7voodoo47]

load a vanilla mis then, the modified gamesys should get loaded as long as the mod is properly activated in the manager.

also, moved to Engineering.

[67431efae37ccGuyFawkesGaming]

Hold on, so I have to add it to the mod manager first?

[67431efae38dfvoodoo47]

yes, any mod or fan mission you wish to edit should be placed in a proper folder (DMM for mods, FMs for fan missions) and activated properly (mods in the modmanager, FMs via the fm variable in cam_ext.cfg or -fm param in a shortcut to the editor exe).

then you just start up the editor and open a mission file (in case of Pop's mod, you will actually have to open a vanilla mission file, as his gamesys is using those), and you can start editing.

[67431efae39d8GuyFawkesGaming]

Never done this before so I apologies for my ignorance. Do I need to disable SCP then as it contains a gamesys mod? It's odd that there aren't many tutorials of gamesys editing, most that I've found are about making your own level.

[67431efae3aeevoodoo47]

yes, you should only enable the mod you wish to edit, just to be safe.

a tutorial doesn't really exist, as this is actually very simple - as I've said, all you need is a SS2tool patched SS2 install with the editor, the mod loaded properly, and away you go. the hard part will be figuring out what to do next.

[67431efae3beaGuyFawkesGaming]

Alrighty, gave me the typical mod conflict error message due to SCP. Not sure if that's a problem. Now what?

EDIT: nevermind, just realized you said only enable the mod you want to edit above. Getting a load failure though when opening it in ShockED.

[67431efae3d02voodoo47]

screenshots? also remember you will have to actually go to the SS2\data folder and open some (any map) there to edit the gamesys of the (Pop's) mod, as strange as that may sound.

basically, if you have a tool patched SS2 install, load Pop's mod via the manager, start shocked.exe, click file/open, browse to SS2\data an open earth.mis, that's all.

[67431efae3debGuyFawkesGaming]

I think I figured it out, I have to load it via the "set custom gamesys" instead of Alt+L/"open". The other way seemingly causes the level to close again.

[67431efae3ee1voodoo47]

that doesn't sound like something you should be doing. don't reinvent the wheel, just open it as I've described in my previous post - that will work ok.

[67431efae3fe0GuyFawkesGaming]

Oh, I get it now! If the mod is enabled in the manager, the gamesys automatically opens when you open a level to edit! Boy I have a lot to learn.

To think I haven't even gotten started. How would I decouple the gore effects from Pop's other changes?

[67431efae4125voodoo47]

you need to analyze the gamesys and find out what the gore effects setup is - not trivial, especially if this is your first Shocked endeavor. once you'll know how it works, you can start to think about how to export it into a dml.

//had a very quick look, seems like it's done via zillion of stims on the hybrid archetype. good news is that I'm pretty sure this can be converted to dml with just a few of the available stubs. //a quick second look, the setup is not simple by any means. prepare for a lot of work.
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[67431efae4224GuyFawkesGaming]

Ok, you lost me there. I was looking inside editors/gamesys variables. Are you sure it's just the hybrid, it suppose to affect all organic enemies I believe.