SS2 Rebalanced Skills and Disciplines

[673fc153ba307AT]

there are only very few situations we cannot resolve by editing a save (a notable exception would be someone saving while dying before activating a QBR. such a save is done. and yes, there is/was a guy on this planet saving all his progress manually into the autosave slot. you cannot make this up).

The line between bravery and foolishness is a tightrope a few can walk.

[673fc153ba4f7voodoo47]

dev forgot to remove NVspy from an object. harmless.

the game loves to crash on the first eng1->eng2 transition, modded or not.

[673fc153ba831ZylonBane]

I've actually seen it two other times on the same tripwire (both after the elevator was already activated so it wasn't a problem). No idea why it happens.

Yo @Nameless Voice, is there any chance NVScript might be accidentally wiping Objlist Args? IIRC you've mentioned that it both reads and writes to this property.

Also this entire discussion should probably be moved to the helpdesk.

[673fc153baa39AT]

voodoo47
so long as I'm not mining bitcoins for the Many here.

[673fc153bad6eNameless Voice]

Yo @Nameless Voice, is there any chance NVScript might be accidentally wiping Objlist Args? IIRC you've mentioned that it both reads and writes to this property.

Haven't heard any mention of anything like that.  Some scripts do update parameters, but those should be using the "param cache" system, which was written by Telliamed years ago and always seemed pretty rock solid.  Not saying there couldn't be a bug there, just that I haven't seen anyone mention anything like that before.

[673fc153bae9bvoodoo47]

note that the entire param (objlist arg) is gone, not just the contents.

[673fc153bb258sarge945]

it may be something simple as the random prop assign bug making the tripwire not work. in that case, the save usually can be repaired in the editor.

Now I'm genuinely curious, how does one open a save in the editor?

This will be very useful for debugging people's weird randomiser issues.

[673fc153bb3e2voodoo47]

open the editor (the SS2tool build), type set game_mode_backup 0 into the command window, press enter, then toggle persistent player position under Game, then go game mode, hit escape to get into the menu and load the save, then alt+e to go editor mode, do whatever needs to be done, go game mode again, (quick)save, exit editor, done.

[673fc153bb656AT]

sarge945
Hey @sarge945 , now in turn I'm curious, as I have just started a playthrough with RSD and your randomiser - what weird bugs should I expect? Anything game-breaking?

thx

[673fc153bbbb6RoSoDude]

By no way filing complaints here (seeing as I'm having a blast), but for what it's worth, playing with SCP and RSD as base it is the first time in my experience of the game that I'm getting big bugs like this and I've now hit three big ones in a row. First two already described above, on the third playthrough (current) I've had a submap transition bulkhead in Engineering (one towards cargo bays) crash the game to desktop and... remove my quick save state from just before the crash to the autosave at the beginning of engineering.

Whatever that gremlin is, I have a feeling must be happening somewhere in-between here, as I've never once encountered anything like this with secmod or vanilla. Just saying, with all the love and appreciation for the fixes and adjustments all of you brought. You already have my mod list for reference.

I've noticed messages in the log that I've never seen in vanilla/secmod - attached one of those here, if that helps. What are those things and why are they showing up in the log?

The Cargo Bay bulkhead is notoriously crashy the first time you load it on a new save and has been since version 1.00 of the mod. I've tried to do my part to reduce the number of scripts that try to do too much OnBeginScript (which is difficult as I have a lot of scripts!), but I think it's moreso a problem with the map's stability than my mod on top. Generally people with faster PCs report more crashes there, probably because something is running too fast and getting out of sequence. The deeper engine stuff is a mystery to me. One quick point to note -- you didn't actually lose your quicksave state, you just have to load any other save first, then load back to your prior Engineering save and it'll be back to normal. It's a weird aspect of the crash.

The log messages are just debug spam from an object I forgot to remove, will get that in the next version, thanks.

[673fc153bbce5AT]

Good to know this, will keep in mind for the future, thanks.

I'm doing an OSA/Techie run on Impossible with SCP/RSD/Sarge's Randomiser as a base and, few mishaps aside, I'm in awe of how polished and fresh it all feels, it's almost like I'm playing Shock for the first time. Things look great, choices are meaningful and consequences pleasantly painful.

[673fc153bc221sarge945]

Sarge's Randomiser

Not to be a bother, but would you mind leaving some feedback for the mod in it's thread?

My intention is to get the mod to a point where each run feels natural and deliberate, like the items are hand placed with love and care by the developers, even though they are obviously random. I want to know if I am close to achieving that goal.

A few people have given feedback already (in private) and in each case I've discovered another little nuance about what people really value in the item placements in SS2. It's like everyone values the locations of everything slightly differently.

sarge945
Hey @sarge945 , now in turn I'm curious, as I have just started a playthrough with RSD and your randomiser - what weird bugs should I expect? Anything game-breaking?

thx

The worst bug you're likely to get is that there's a very slim chance that an item may spawn on top of another item. I have gone to great lengths to make sure that doesn't happen, but there's still a chance I messed something up. A previous player couldn't find all of the art terminals in recreation for the code, however I'm pretty sure that was not a problem with the mod.

You shouldn't get anything game-breaking.

[673fc153bc37aAT]

hey there @sarge945, thanks for elaborating.

I don't mind giving you feedback at all, though with keeping in mind that I'm not a die-hard who replays ss2 once a month the last 10 years – which is to say that I will probably lack the baseline criterion of remembering exactly where every was and how useful it was across 20 runs with different builds. But I'll continue this on Randomiser's own thread – meet you there once I hit deck 4.

[673fc153bc623Join2]

RoSoDude
Perhaps you can provide a workaround by placing a backup link further down the shaft?

[673fc153bc723Rizencraft]

Is this compatible with SS2 Repairman and SS2 Big Droid Immortality Protocol, or are the changes in those mods already included for this mod?

[673fc153bca20Deu sex]

Rizencraft
Funny you mention those, as I was tinkering with them very recently, it's perfectly compatible with both yes
the big droid one may need some manual editing for balance though, as the original cost is 50 nanites to repair for all 3 big droids (before it is being processed by the new RSD minigame algorithm), I recommend to change that to 30 for maintenance robots and 40 for laser robots, and keep 50 for fusion robots.

You basically just go into the SS2_Droid_Immortality_1.01 folder and in the gamesys.dml file change the "Cost" to 30.00 and 40.00 (or other values you see fit) from

Code: [Select]

+ObjProp "Maintenance Wreck" "RepairDiff"
{
"Success %" 0
"Critical Fail %" 0
"Cost" 50.00
}

and

Code: [Select]

+ObjProp "Security Wreck" "RepairDiff"
{
"Success %" -10
"Critical Fail %" 0
"Cost" 50.00
}


[673fc153bcb05voodoo47]

cheater.

[673fc153bcbfcRoSoDude]

It's really warranted because the new hack/repair/modify minigames deduct 2/5 the original cost for every reset and 1/5 the cost for every node click, so it usually costs more for a successful attempt, possibly even double.

[673fc153bcd37Jamie]

Hello RoSoDude, I deeply appreciate all of the work you've put into modifying System Shock 2 -- you make another playthrough tempting. Please don't think I'm making requests or self-entitled demands, but did you ever consider making some of the Assassins in your AI mod transparent or invisible? You know - like Arachnids in the later stages. Finally, would it ever be possible to include an option that disables autosaving and only permits manual saving at Quantum Bio-Reconstruction Machines for a cost of nanites? I think it would significantly increase the tension of the game. Thanks kindly for reading.

[673fc153bce57RoSoDude]

Invisible assassins is probably possible. I think it can be done just through the object properties. It might be interesting if assassins on harder difficulties went transparent when standing in place and only became visible when throwing a shuriken or running, maybe.

There's no way for me to do anything about saving, that's handled entirely by the engine layer. I agree with your preference for checkpoint saving over save anywhere but it's just not possible here.

[673fc153bcf28voodoo47]

invisible when not attacking/fleeing would be (not) fun.

[673fc153bd190Jamie]

RoSoDude
I completely understand, and thanks so much for getting back to me. I've decided to start System Shock 2 again with your mod. Yes, I think invisible Assassins on Impossible would be quite interesting. One more thing: did you ever consider allowing players to repair and hack/convert Security Robots? I think SS2 AlyaMod 2 had such a feature, but I know it's incompatible with Rebalanced Skills and Disciplines.

[673fc153bd2b0RoSoDude]

A broadly similar feature can be obtained with the Big Droid Immortality Protocol mod. See the posts right above yours for tips to change its costs to better suit RSD's reworked minigame.

[673fc153bd46cSteelDragon]

Just getting back into SS2 and thought I'd give this a go. I just have a few questions:

1. Is this compatible with SS2 Four Hundred (400) and SHTUP-ND? If so, which load order do you recommend?
2. I'm using the Steam version. Does the Steam version automatically give you the SS2 v2.48 patch or do I have to download that manually?
3. I used the SS2Tool and noticed the option 'Weather Effects'. What exactly does this do? The sky looks exactly the same to me.
4. I noticed that you included a fix for the SS2 Alarming Cameras mimimod. Do I activate the mod, yours in the Mod Manager, and then manually copy/paste the psihelp file?

Thanks.