Silver's Bioshock mod Version 7.2 Alpha

[67402b912e51bpsikoticsilver]

Can you be online today, the 22nd?  I want to hear your input before I start doing my 2nd round of testing.

[67402b912e65aneowillendit]

I can be on today Bro, you able?  I'll jump on at 6pm EST, 11 minutes from now to keep continuity with my previous posts...

[67402b912e780psikoticsilver]

Hey Neo, I've been working on the mod and I've made a few changes to the test version I sent you.  If you get on skype I'll send it to you, otherwise I'm going to put it up here in the next few days.

[67402b912eaf2psikoticsilver]

Ok, I've been working on the mod again.  I know I'm overdue but to be honest I lost interest.  It happens. :p  It's happened before and it will happen again.  But amidst this I've put out 5 different releases, so don't worry.


So, here are some things I've been working on tonight:
- I have increased the amount of Adam received as well as Gather's Garden costs to create a larger rift between Harvesting and Rescuing litter sisters. There are a total of 21 Little sisters throughout the game and in Bioshock 1.1, the player receives 3360 Adam for Harvesting the Litter Sisters and 3080 Adam for rescuing them. Couple this with the awesome plasmids, tonics and goodies you gift from the gift baskets and you will wonder why anyone harvests the little sisters save for wanting view the alternate ending. Having raised the Adam costs and amount the player can receives I hope to have fixed this. The player now receives at least 5460 and at most 6300 Adam for Harvesting while a the player receives Adam for rescuing at least 4130 and at most 4550 Adam. This raises the difference between the two game play styles 1330 to around 1700. Of course the increased costs of plasmids offset this in my mod but overall the increase benefits harvesters. As an example, in the original Bioshock mod a level three plasmid costs 150 which means the a harvester can afford an extra 1.86 level three plasmids. In this mod a level three plasmid costs 420 which means a harvester can afford an extra 3.166 to 4.047 level three plasmids. Remember that not only have all tonic costs been increased at around 200-300% but tonics and plasmids priced at 1 Adam have been fixed, thus the player needs every bit of Adam they can get. In addition the increased Gatherer's Garden costs of tonics will ensure the player needs all the Adam they can get.
- Plasmid and Tonic costs roughly quadrupled (as opposed to Bioshock 1.1)
- The difficulty of hacking has been increased tremendously for every machine through tweaking off pipe speed. From Version 6, hacking is MUCH harder.  Initial hacking flow is 3 seconds for deck one, 2.5 seconds for decks two-five, 2 seconds for deck six, and 1.5 seconds for decks seven+
- Retooled Icicle Assault freezing mechanics to fail 50% of the time, however the plasmid now damages foes as well.
- Increase the cost of purchasing ammo from Bandito machines by 50-200%.

[67402b912ebfcneowillendit]

Hey Bro, improvements look great, halfway through Medical and everything seems great.  Great work man, I'm taking notes and I'll update you ASAP.

[67402b912ed90psikoticsilver]

thank you

Before you go much further please download the 6.0a version I put on the front page of this thread.  I've raised Adam prices and I've raised the amount of Adam you get from Little Sisters.  If you already Harvested/Rescued the little Sisters in Medical, then spend as much Adam as you can before you goto Neptune's bounty.  Otherwise reload from right before you get the first Little Sister and simply wait until Neptune's bounty before you spend any of the Adam (probably your best bet).

It's got cleaned up Circus and Bandito machines... speaking of, let me know if you see cigarettes in any of the vending machines in Neptune's bounty. :p

Thanks for taking notes and testing for me   Make sure to tell me what sort of build you're running in terms of Plasmids and tonics.

[67402b912ee83neowillendit]

OK Bro, got the download and I'll get with you as soon as I can...

[67402b912efafpsikoticsilver]

I replaced it with a different version about 50 seconds before you posted, so make sure you have the right one.

[67402b912f08cneowillendit]

OK, I re-downloaded and restarted...

[67402b912f45dneowillendit]

OK, just finished with Medical and started with Bounty.  What I see so far:


- I'm not sure if this is intentional, but I'd like to see enemies stronger with more health...it makes for more epic battles...you may have wanted it seperate from the in-game "hard" mode though, so I'd understand that.  You mention "balance the resistance sets of all foes in accordance to what level the player can access higher weapons and plasmids" so maybe that will resolve that concern of mine...

- I think the pipe speed might be a little too much for others with hacking...if I couldn't "Buy Out" or use an "Automated Hack Tool"...then it would take 50 times to get a hack for the safes in Medical.  Pipe speed is a good balance after getting "Speedy Hacker" tonic though...so if this is intentional also, then again I would understand.  Maybe just tweaking the speed a little slower on Medical though could help.

- I think the new balance of rescue or harvest is great!!  If I harvest I get more Adam, but no "Hypnotize big Daddy" tonic later and no "gifts" from Tenenbaum...overall a great balance between the two...no longer clearly biased to rescuing in BioShock v.1.1 unmodded.

- Even though you're going for "Scrounger" type gameplay, I think there be something dropped in almost every container in-game.  It's annoying searching like 10 cabinets in Medical, and only finding 1 thing.  Is there a way to just spread it out, at the same time leaving the amount of items total the same?  I see the "To Do" you have in your changes.txt includes "figure out why cameras and nade boxes won't drop anything"...maybe when that's fixed it would help frustrations a bit.

- You mention under "Loot" that you increased cash drops to compensate for difficulty, but the one Big Daddy I killed in Medical didn't drop any cash at all...only an empty eve hypo...could definitally be a bug.

- I think just as System Shock 2 is slanted toward hacking, so is the mod now...after looking at your chart outlining the engineering level requirements, I don't think you should ever be required the purchase all 6 slots in order to be able to hack anything on every level...maybe it should stop at slot 4.  There is still 6 slots to be able to buy, but the last two would only add space for active tonics but not "level requirements.  Example, instead of "Turrets" requiring level "4" on Deck 4...maybe it should stay "3", and on Deck 5 and after only require level "4".  Just suggestions though, I still love everything and I'm still having fun playing through again with your mod.

- Last thing I have a note on is tht you've re-written your changelog, but now it doesn't include the installation instructions...so for anyone new to the mod who downloads the v.6.0a file, won't know what to do with it.

Talk to you soon Brother...

[67402b912f581neowillendit]

I forgot to tell you that I'm going for harvesting, with a "Hacker" type route.  Bought "Sonic Boom" and saving up for a engineering slot.  I'll an eye out for those "cigarettes" in Bounty.

[67402b912f8e2psikoticsilver]

A lot of things in the game you can't set specifically.  For the most part all we have access to allows us to change the broad strokes.  Hacking, is a great example... you can set the hacking speed of each particular machine per deck and not individually.  Also, the developers placed some higher level machines on lower decks, like deck 3 machines placed on deck 2.  It makes it hard to set things per level... but I am starting to agree with you that at least certain machines need to be lowered... like vending machines and doors.  You only have to buy 4 slot levels to hack those hard machines so I don't think it's a bad sacrifice considering the benefits you get from hacking... and you still have enough to invest in other things, just not enough to get tons of health and eve and physical upgrades.

BTW, I will make  hacking a lot easier in Medical.  It was intended to be impossible until you get Speedy Hacker but I realize that is a very bad idea.  I might also slightly reduce flow times until the player gets Speed Hacker 2 (which breaks hacking, imo).

Containers... hell loot in general is a problem.  I'm not sure why things drop the way they do.  One thing though, is that when I talk about loot I mean the loot splicers drop.  I cannot set the loot for cabinets, boxes, crates, etc, as I'm pretty sure that is programmed into the levels themselves.  There might be a line or two I screwed up somewhere.  I found a reference to a loot table that I thought I removed from the ini file (thanks, if you hadn't prompted me to check I might have missed it) but no references to containers.  I even cross checked them against original ConfigINI.IBF. 

The Big Daddy issue I will fix.  I have noticed it myself.  Strange though, because you have 50% chance to get a decent amount of cash, and an additional 10% to get another cash set.  There's a 20% chance for components.  I'll raise the chance to get cash and lower the chance for components.  Do you think I should give a guaranteed cash drop for Big Daddies?

Three things that can be set more specifically are health, damage resistance sets and plasmid/weapon damage.  I reverted the health increases of release 5.1 because I figured it turned the game into too much of a grind fest.  Damage resistance and weapon damage go hand in hand... you can raise certain resistances, add damage types and or levels, so it's a lot more intricate and effective than health increases.  That's my next major goal, and I think it will really change how you face certain enemies in the game, particularly per level.  I might still give certain enemies more health.

[67402b912fb19psikoticsilver]

Ok, Neo I patched the hacking to make it slightly slower early-mid game game, and slightly faster in various places.  It should be a little easier, and a little more sensible.  Also I have fixed inaccuracies in the changes log concerning engineering slots needed for hacking.  I'm so glad you brought them up because I'm ashamed to say there were quite a few mistakes.  In looking at it, I sort of rounded out the slot requirements so that they would be easier to balance.  There are now quite a few machines which have a maximum required engineering level of 5, so that is a good start.

Ok, so if you think hacking needs further slowing let me know.

I'm uploading the new version on the front page of this post.  It also has a few fixes in the loottables.ini file and a tweak for the big daddies to provide a slightly higher chance of cash, and less chance for components and generics.

Do not worry about restarting your level, all of the changes should be in effect upon reaching the next deck.. you can restart the deck you're on if you really, REALLY want to by loading a saved game at the bulkhead before the level.  Some of them should instantly take effect, even without a level advance. 

You do NOT have to restart your current run though :p


A side note... from my own runs, I think I'm going to raise machine gun loot.  Is it too rare for you too?
I'm also thinking of slightly buffing the pistol in damage... maybe by 10%.  What do you think?

[67402b912fd0dneowillendit]

If hacking is slightly (just a tad) slower in Medical than it should be great.  I don't think it should be slower with any other level because most players will have "Speedy Hacker" by then, cuz everyone has the two slots available by default.  Also, I agree with you about "Speedy Hacker 2"...what do you think about taking it out?

- Maybe you should make the cash drops with Big Daddies guaranteed, since some people (myself included) like to fight daddies for fun (even when they aren't escorting sisters).

- What I was saying about engineering slots (levels) is that I think it's SO slanted toward hacking that maybe it should be toned down a bit...only requiring at the most level 4 (4 slots)...just suggesting...nothing critical.

- If you don't want me to restart fresh then I'll just consider Medical balanced with hacking.  I knew I didn't have to, but I thought you'd want me to in order to test Medical and such...I'll keep moving along though.

- As far as the machine gun ammo, I don't use it enough to say really...I love to take head shots with the pistol, unless I know there are about to be a lot of enemies in an area.  Although buffing the pistol damage sounds good to me.

[67402b912fe65psikoticsilver]

I was just suggesting because I didn't want to put you through another restart, test if you want.   When I'm done working on this revision of the mod I'm going to go through another test run or two myself so I'll look at medical hacking then.  If you want to look at it now we can.  ^^

Insofar as the big daddy loot... It's probably a good idea, especially considering they are harder in this mod.

[67402b912ff62neowillendit]

What do you think about removing "Speedy Hacker 2" and only requiring a max of level 4 for hacking?

[67402b9130120psikoticsilver]

Removing Speedy Hacker 2 would give great control over late game hacking so I'd be all for that.

Requiring max level 4 of hacking isn't something I'm keen on doing, because it gets away from what I want hacking to do.  I'm trying to force people to at least specialize a little bit, and hacking gives so many advantages such as cheaper items, less wasted ammo, more cash and ammo found, usable bots and turrets, usable cameras...  The thing about hacking is the 4 slots will only cost a total of 1600, which leaves at 3800 for harvesters.  Rescuers will have about 2500, which leaves them at a disadvantage early game with hacking.  However, it is made up for with the Big Daddy plasmids.

Basically, my point is that there is more than enough Adam and someone who is big on hacking will have to use it more strategically to survive.  If you really want hacking to have less levels, I can make a small mod for you to play later with either reduced slot costs or less engineering slot requirements.

[67402b91302d0neowillendit]

I understand about you wanting to specialize with Hacking...especially with you and I...we're both hackers at heart.  It's not that "I really want"...that's me just trying to put myself in other's shoes...(people who run-n-gun...or people who think hacking might be tedious).  I'm only throwing out suggestions.  I'm gonna hack...probably every time I play the game, just as I mentioned above that I'm doing now.  Besides, Ken Levine prefered us to hack in System Shock 2 and here in BioShock.  I'm only thinking of anyone else who may only play your mod for increased difficulty with enemies, or some other reason.

It's not important to me so I'll drop it...only suggestions Bro...I have no issue either way.

On a sadder note...I accidentally re-imaged over my saves after I made a bad registry entry and Windows wouldn't boot...I know exactly what I did wrong...live and learn...anyway I'll be restarting ASAP.

Talk soon Bro.

[67402b9130405neowillendit]

Hey Bro, just got back from another trip, anyway, one of the other guys that I was on my trip with, had a MacBook Pro.  I'm hooked and I'm making the switch ASAP.  No bugs, memory errors, universal options, very elegant and sophisticated...did everything like it's supposed to do right out of the box!!

Anyway, no longer interested in your mod, take care.

[67402b91304dfpsikoticsilver]

... great.

[67402b9130655BIOSHOCK]

Hey silver, I've been doing some research to find a Bioshock mod that would up the difficulty and maybe add some slight changes in gameplay, and your mod sounds perfect. I'm going to do a 1.1 patch update tonight and try out your 6.0a1 version. The game sounds as if it's going to be leaps and bounds harder than before, so I suppose I'll start on normal difficulty.

I'm not sure if you're still working on the mod, or even checking this page from time to time but I'll report bugs and observations that I feel are important, here. And if I see you more active on another forum, I'll give you a post there as well.

Thanks in advance for all your hard work and time put into this mod, I'm incredibly excited to try it out tonight.

[67402b9130876BIOSHOCK]

Alright, so I just went through my first 1-2 hour romp through Rapture with your mod installed, and I must say that I'm really, REALLY enjoying the changes made. The biggest difference so far that I see (and applaud) is that hacking seems more "realistic", for lack of a better word. I always thought it was unrealistic that my character could hack pretty much everything with ease, no matter what the difficulty or his "experience". Unless the PC had previous experience with hacking such devices/machinery, it should never have been so easy to perform, although I don't know what training he may have had in his past under the watch of Dr.Suchong.

Now the game feels much more realistic and even more "enclosed", claustrophobic and dangerous simply because I can't go around hacking every turret in sight; but instead I have to dodge their line of sight every time I pass them by until I can get better hacking "tools" and upgrade my hacking capabilities. I can actually find a good reason now to purchase the freeze plasmid in order to make it less of a heart attack to hack anything. Well done!

So I'll clock more hours of play tomorrow hopefully and see what other surprises are in store. So far the difficulty on normal is pretty intense, especially now that I am trying to avoid (cheaply) reloading save states whenever possible in this play through, in order to increase realism and difficulty.

Good job once again, Peace out.

[67402b91309a3psikoticsilver]

Thanks for testing.  ^^

I do check it out every once in a while and I do want to continue testing.  I just lost interest through testing it myself over and over and over so I needed to give it a break.  I've been busy so I never posted it.

Any bugs you report will be fixed in a final version I'll release in due time.

[67402b9130b17BIOSHOCK]

Oh hey, great to see that you're still lurking about in the forums. =)

I started a new game on Hard mode and so far I've reached the beginning of Arcadia, and no bugs or issues to speak of yet. Some parts of the game were hell to get through though, but I loved it! I picked up a couple of hacking tonics and a slot on the way so things have become much less of a heart attack to hack, thankfully. I posted a handful of videos on the net, hope you don't mind, in order to tempt others to try out this wonderful mod.

Not much more to say I suppose, keep up the good work and we'll do the testing on your behalf.