System Shock 2: Enhanced Edition Update & Community Participation

[66ee699c51db0voodoo47]

jut dropping an id file (nds.txt) into the build that the tool would then detect would probably be easier. though I see no problem with people going Dark with EE, should they want to.

[66ee699c51ff6ZylonBane]

I'm sure there will be dozens of unique files in the Kex build that SS2Tool could be modified to recognize. The potential issue is the current version.

[66ee699c52191rattkin]

This is Rattkin. I release my (handful) of textures into public domain, use freely for whatever anybody wishes.

[66ee699c526beHikari]

By that logic, Night Dive should go full kitchen-sink and include EVERY mod. Let the user decide!

No. The point of the default mod load is to offer a prettier, less buggy, but fundamentally vanilla experience. If anyone wants to add mods beyond that, there's absolutely nothing stopping them from coming here and downloading them.

By your logic no changes should ever be made ever. Get a grip man. You have a damned fine amount of knowledge of what yu work on and out the hours in, but that doesn't give you an excuse to run rough over literally everyone around you to the point of it being a joke at his dismissive demeaning and outright spiteful you act. Zylon insulting someone is the stock reaction I expect here whenever anyone pipes up.

Stop acting like a crotchity old usenet troll and grow up.  You have been running the same gimmick for twenty years. It's old.

That said you are correct in that users aren't stopped from adding more mods later. It is simply a case of the suggested mods being nice to have conveniences that don't drastically change the game in big ways, but make small changes that give more consistency and less clunk.

I see no problem with adding those to the included mod list as they give the user choice without adding a ton of bloat to the download. For me that is the thing. These mods yu rail against aren't actually that heavy. If it were a mod of convenience that changed how the game works that had several hundred megabytes? Yes I could get you coming off your kind came waving for those darned kids to stop with their racket. However a few k here or there? I don't get it.

Why are yu the way you are? Don't act like you are the font of all rightness. Yu are knowledgeable and generally I don't like calling yu out,because unlike me? You have contributed a ton to the community over the decades to the point I have asked mightwave to include easter eggs of you in the remake,but at the same time?

You come off as a 'my way or you are bloody wrong and stupid' jerk,and as I said before; the gag is old. There are ways of disagreeing with people without talking down to them like you think everyone but you is garbage.

[66ee699c52806voodoo47]

while NDS didn't say it straight, as far as we can tell (the list in the first post is pretty clear), they are aiming for that SCP sweet spot where things are bugfixed, improved, and smoothed around the edges, but still not overstepping that line where new mechanics that would stir the soup up too much are introduced. plus visual enhancements, of course (again, not overdoing them, just making all the mods click together nicely by finishing up the missing bits).

also yes it's still funny.

[66ee699c52bacZylonBane]

By your logic no changes should ever be made ever.

Please do explain my logic for us.

[66ee699c53148Hikari]

Please do explain my logic for us.

Zylon. I have already lain out my thoughts on you. So, no. We can either take it to PM's and avoid further thread derailment where you sit and piss and moan because you are getting the slightest pushback to your hissy ego fits, or you can kindly get your cheeto dust encrusted hands off your keyboard.

while NDS didn't say it straight, as far as we can tell (the list in the first post is pretty clear), they are aiming for that SCP sweet spot where things are bugfixed, improved, and smoothed around the edges, but still not overstepping that line where new mechanics that would stir the soup up too much are introduced. plus visual enhancements, of course (again, not overdoing them, just making all the mods click together nicely by finishing up the missing bit

I could see a case made for either maximalist 'throw everything in' or !animal 'throw in just enough to knock the edges off or to update just enough to be a little !ore appealing looking without radical alteration.'

The biggest question with mods is where is that line drawn at? Because further discussion on included mods should have that lain out otherwise we will circle 'round constantly.

That said I saw comment, possibly by Zylon, about lex having a set of capabilities beyond what newdwrk has above and beyond 'doffremt rendering's. My own aggrivation of Zylon's ego and dismissiveness of everyone else to one side I do trust his knowledge of the dark engine.

So, realistically, what would lex allow that newdwrk does not beyond rendering and hopefully stable netcode? (Because I would honestly love to co-op with a couple friends of mine, either the vanilla game or fan missions.) Yes it stops being scary when yu have multiple people brute forcing the matter, but that also does open up design space all on it's own.

How will matchmaking be handled?

Anything else lex offers up? I remember one of the live streams mentioning how several of the levels had to be broken up into chunks to avoid lag. Would it be feasible to make those (meds I, hydroponics, and rec especially) as full levels without the internal loading bulkheads? Would that even change anything in a meaningful manner?

[66ee699c53302Briareos H]

lol @ IGN for their exclusive reveal that Nightdive is working on a VR mode for SS2EE. The only new piece of information is that it will not be released alongside SS2EE, which was to be expected anyway.

[66ee699c5346aDenhonator]

Wasn't it also news that you can multiplayer across VR and flat screen freely? Not sure if it was even known that you can multiplayer in VR which is great news for me and my brother who play VR games together.

[66ee699c5357fBriareos H]

You're right, I'm a bit dismissive. I'm looking forward to playing the VR port, the rather slow gameplay is a good fit for VR.

I wonder if it will be possible to backport Thief game logic to their KEX engine.

[66ee699c536b3voodoo47]

if they can get SS2 fully working on KEX with no shortcuts taken, then T1/TG or even T2 would be very possible, I'd imagine.

in fact, I wouldn't be surprised seeing NDS trying to pry Thief out of sqeenix' evil clutches as their next project. which would be great, rotting in sqeenix' gut forever is pretty much the worst fate the franchise can experience.

[66ee699c53aa1prengle]

if nightdive wants to release an "enhanced" edition of system shock 2, then that version should ideally be a direct improvement on the original game that remains as faithful to it as humanly possible. i'm already somewhat skeptical of their ability to provide on that front, if they were doing a beamdog-style remaster and just chucking crap in left and right, then you bet your ass people would complain

if they can get SS2 fully working on KEX with no shortcuts taken, then T1/TG or even T2 would be very possible, I'd imagine.

in fact, I wouldn't be surprised seeing NDS trying to pry Thief out of sqeenix' evil clutches as their next project. which would be great, rotting in sqeenix' gut forever is pretty much the worst fate the franchise can experience.

i guess nds/otherside/tencent thief would technically be better than squeenix thief, but then again i guess feeling something is better than feeling nothing at all 

[66ee699c54006voodoo47]

a direct improvement on the original game that remains as faithful to it as humanly possible

um, yes, hence, this topic? maybe you want to talk about the not-yet-confirmed-but-come-on-we-all-know-it-is-coming SS2R?

nds/otherside/tencent thief would technically be better than squeenix thief

what I'm saying here is that I want sqeenix off anything Dark related completely and forever. off the code, off the resources, off everything, so I can finally never utter their accursed name ever again and forget they even existed.

and if NDS can hook and pull T3 with them on their way out of the leviathan's belly, then even better. T2014 on the other hand, can fester there until kingdom come.

[66ee699c5420aJDoran]

Thief 1 and 2 would be amazingly atmospheric in VR! Imagine, you (as Garrett) crounched in a dark corner, with two or more guards, each with their swords draw, moving ever closer to you as they peer around, mumbling to themselves and trying to find you.

Just don't add a half-hearted arm animation whenever Garrett picks up anything. Either make it totally convincing, i.e. with the correct length and proportions of the arm and the hand, the correct angles of movement, show all of the arm (not just a floating, detached hand), the correct speed, etc, or don't bother adding an arm and hand at all. If it isn't so convincing that it looks natural then it will just detract from the realism, as in VR everything that doesn't look right seems much more noticeable and jarring.

[66ee699c54333ZylonBane]

The problem with VR Thief would be that many people can't play VR walking games without teleport movement, which would utterly wreck a game like Thief that's all about fine-grained movement.

[66ee699c54435prengle]

i don't want to think about a system shock 2 remake right now, maybe they'll finish remaking the first one before the next recession 

[66ee699c54588icemann]

Even SS2 in VR would be vomit inducing after a while wouldn't it?

[66ee699c5498bvurt]

icemann¨¨

that's how we used to argue about 3D games when they were new. much is just about getting used to that type of environment, you're tricking your brain so it can get weird, i'd say it does take longer time with VR than for 3D.

I play SS2 and Theif with 3Dvision, it's a much better experience than 2D imo.. sometimes i do prefer 3DVision over actual VR, it really depends. i'm not a fan of wearing the gigantic VR gear that covers much of your face, it sucks. I'm also pretty sure VR never have as good 3D depth as i've seen with 3Dvision.

[66ee699c54b20Denhonator]

I expect SS2EE VR to have a form of teleportation, maybe similar to Alyx. But it'll feel better with free locomotion if you can handle it. With how the environments are designed (not really made for VR), you'd spend half of your game time teleporting which gets tiring after a while. Meanwhile in Alyx, the environments are dense. Often, one or two teleports is enough to encounter an interaction. Especially if you are a little new and lost, there's a lot of running in SS2.

Personally, too much free locomotion also tires me or eventually causes nausea. I find it optimal to be able to use free locomotion and teleportation both so neither of those start feeling excessive. And with people having different preferences and tolerances, VR games are more accessible with more movement options and I think SS2 should not have much problems fitting in a teleportation (aside from the existing psi powers)

[66ee699c54fb4icemann]

icemann¨¨

that's how we used to argue about 3D games when they were new. much is just about getting used to that type of environment, you're tricking your brain so it can get weird, i'd say it does take longer time with VR than for 3D.

Argue what? That 2D is better? And do you mean 3D graphics (eg openGL, 3DFX etc) or 3D glasses style stuff?

For 3D graphics I was completely blown away when it first started popping up in games like Unreal, Mechwarrior 2, Quake etc. As for 3D glasses stuff. I tried that back in Sega Master System days and never really saw the appeal. 3D in movies like Avatar and a few others looked nice. Though that died off after a few years.

[66ee699c5527csarge945]

I'm about 95% positive the VR port will either significantly change the gameplay, or it will be garbage.

I hope I'm wrong though

[66ee699c553bfMr. Death]

Hi,

I was just wondering if there are any plans to release the new versions of SCP and SHTUP before or at launch of SS2:EE, so that they can be included into the mod packages?

I'm really looking forward SS2:EE and the new remake! It's been several years since I've played through the series.

[66ee699c554aaZylonBane]

Nobody knows when SS2:EE is going to launch, so of course there are no such plans. How could there be?

[66ee699c555aeMr. Death]

Oh okay.

I thought SS2:EE was going to launch alongside the new remake, which is scheduled for a Summer release. I just thought that maybe you guys had planned to get the new versions of SCP/SHTUP out around that same time.