System Shock 2: Enhanced Edition Update & Community Participation

[674060fa87bfbsarge945]

I can understand wanting to get all the old stuff working well before implementing the newdark stuff.

But what I can't understand is showing it off in such an unfinished state.

I get that developers like to show off early versions of their work, but in this case it looks worse than any community modding guide made in the last decade.

[674060fa87ebfvurt]

The comments are super positive and people seem to think it looks incredible, so they did the right thing probably. I mean, it's System Shock 2, it will automagically get positive comments no matter what.

As someone who's been playing it with mods i didn't exactly fall of my chair in excitement to anything here.
From what i recall their version will be playable as vanilla or modded (they did ask for permission from me 3 years ago), but who knows, things change. I remember they also talked about VR.

[674060fa8804bvoodoo47]

I'm guessing most of those positive comments come from people who never bothered to try any mods (there probably is a fairly large group of people who simply are stuck in the steam environment forever and will never try anything not released officially).

the current trailer shows a build that (apart from the AI models) actually is not even at the level of the current GOG/steam build with SHTUP and Tacticool. they have a lot of work ahead..

[674060fa88366ZylonBane]

The eyelids are opened a little wider and are rounded/more defined. The pupils have the same shape but are smaller and oriented more to the center and the irises have a visible pigment structure and the eyeballs are brightened.

Note in particular that each eye is the exact same image, just mirrored. They didn't even bother correcting the reflection.

[674060fa8858cvurt]

voodoo47
Absolutely.. we are a very, very small minority.

[674060fa886fcicemann]

For me it looked like SS2 with mods and nothing more. Very underwhelming imo.

[674060fa88939Marvin]

With nothing being announced wrt NewDark support, I would expect that it's more or less off the table at this point. So, is there really a reason for this anymore? Would be cool to extract the updated models and offer them as mods for the original.

[674060fa88a1dvoodoo47]

to be blunt, if EE has no ND support, then it's DOA. they can't afford that.

[674060fa88b10Marvin]

I would have expected to see at least something in that capacity. Granted, I don't have the best eyes or memory anymore when it comes to SS2 modding, but I would have expected to see at least some results.

[674060fa88c93JosiahJack]

The NDS "trailer" looks indistinguishable from a let's play with mods from about 8yrs ago.

[674060fa88d96ZylonBane]

These trailers are truly baffling. I get that they want to show "something" to maintain public awareness, but the main thing they have to show off at this point, the upgraded character and weapon models, they barely feature at all. Like you have to actively look for them.

[674060fa890f9JDoran]

With nothing being announced wrt NewDark support, I would expect that it's more or less off the table at this point. So, is there really a reason for this anymore? Would be cool to extract the updated models and offer them as mods for the original.

SS2 EE will be great for console only gamers, who otherwise haven't yet been able to play this all time classic. But I'd imagine that most potential purchasers on the PC would (reasonably) expect the EE version to be a genuine upgrade to the already available and inexpensive 1999 release, but I doubt that that trailer will excite anyone.

And we're still waiting for a release date for the console versions of System Shock Remake. The PSN (Playstation Network) store doesn't even acknowledge it's existence.

Edit: Largely off topic, I know, but does anyone know where we stand with System Shock 3? Is it still in production, do we know who now owns the rights to it and whatever work was done on it before the buyout a few years back?

[674060fa891e6icemann]

SS3 been dead for a long time.

[674060fa8931eMarvin]

Edit: Largely off topic, I know, but does anyone know where we stand with System Shock 3? Is it still in production, do we know who now owns the rights to it and whatever work was done on it before the buyout a few years back?

Last I heard, the rights of developing a sequel would have reverted back to Tencent, which bought and licensed them to Otherside in the first place. Expectedly, nothing has come of it so far.

[674060fa894ffeldrone]

Because you guys would be most knowledgeable about this:

Turrets inherit from monsters and are tagged as movable, but this means they're excluded from lightmap baking.
So just testing to set them to immovable, and relighting, it seems they still work as intended. Any downsides to this?

alternatively, the force static shadow property.

[674060fa89653voodoo47]

hmm, very sure we have considered something similar (corpses casting shadows), but decided to not implement in the end - will have to search the dev topics unless ZB remembers off the top of his head. does the shadow look ok when the turret is firing and exploding?

it would definitely conflict with a not-yet-existing Repairman mod update that would allow the player to lug turrets around (strength 6 and repair 6, probably).

[674060fa89929eldrone]

hmm, very sure we have considered something similar (corpses casting shadows), but decided to not implement in the end - will have to search the dev topics unless ZB remembers off the top of his head. does the shadow look ok when the turret is firing and exploding?

it would definitely conflict with a not-yet-existing Repairman mod update that would allow the player to lug turrets around (strength 6 and repair 6, probably).

Yeah, those kind of things are what I'm thinking about!

Since the turret leaves a chunk when destroyed, it still works visually, and moving around and firing doesn't break the illusion with the shadow.

But it would break compatibility with mods like the one mentioned.

[674060fa89c02ThiefsieFool]

In the vanilla gamesys the turret corpses don't have Physics->Model->Controls->Location set, so they can be very slowly nudged once they've been destroyed. You could either change that or just leave it since it's a very obscure interaction.

[674060fa89d5fvoodoo47]

as a (SCP) rule of thumb, if something is cool but may cause mods to break, then it's better off left alone.

there are exceptions though - if it's really cool, then it may get implemented and all mods are updated accordingly. the shotgun muzzle flash is a good example.

that wouldn't help in this scenario though - you make the turrets cast a shadow, and whichever mod decides to move them is now done, off the compatibility list forever.

[674060fa8a005sarge945]

as a (SCP) rule of thumb, if something is cool but may cause mods to break, then it's better off left alone.

there are exceptions though - if it's really cool, then it may get implemented and all mods are updated accordingly. the shotgun muzzle flash is a good example.

that wouldn't help in this scenario though - you make the turrets cast a shadow, and whichever mod decides to move them is now done, off the compatibility list forever.

Not to mention various mods (wink wink) which may replace turrets with new ones entirely.

[674060fa8a117ZylonBane]

There are some excellent arguments to be made against adding turret shadows, but I don't need to make any of them because of one simple fact: Turret corpses can be psi pulled.

[674060fa8a1f6voodoo47]

the Jedi Council has spoken.

[674060fa8a487sarge945]

There are some excellent arguments to be made against adding turret shadows, but I don't need to make any of them because of one simple fact: Turret corpses can be psi pulled.

Cool, but, why though?

[674060fa8a58cZylonBane]

For the same reason you can psi pull anything.