System Shock 2: Enhanced Edition Update & Community Participation

[67d0e580a225bWhyHelloThere]

Well, I didn't have Discord 4 years ago, and I only discovered this franchise late 2023. I still applaud you for coming up with that name.

[67d0e580a2484voodoo47]

I think I actually came up with that NewDark <-> OldDark thing too, but any proof that might have existed probably is lost to time.

I can name stuff!

[67d0e580a256fWhyHelloThere]

Wow, you really can name stuff! And you're really good at it too!

[67d0e580a263evoodoo47]

yep! I certainly am!

[67d0e580a2970sarge945]

NDA has been signed - set your toasters to 6 months and keep your fingers crossed.

Exciting times!

[67d0e580a2c3deldrone]

also, KexDark (or rather, KEXDark) was mentioned for the first time on discord, almost exactly 4 years ago, by yours truly. just in case you'd want to know.

Yeah, rolls off the tongue, but it's a nickname.

Right in the middle of it, it's still dark engine.

Kex doesn't replace so much as it interfaces and makes development and porting faster, so a lot of improvements are improvements to dark.

[67d0e580a41ccWhyHelloThere]

I think I actually came up with that NewDark <-> OldDark thing too

Turns out the oldest recorded instance on this forum of the term "OldDark" from an unedited message is actually attributed to you:

The priority order is as follows, where the first has the highest override priority:

    .DDS
    .PNG
    .TGA
    .BMP
    .PCX
    .GIF
    .CEL

just use the png format for all textures and you will be fine. this will make the weapons incompatible with oldDark, but I wouldn't worry about that too much.

However, there is one post edited before this date, featuring the term OldDark:

...
In OldDark, water surface textures on only 2 directional faces are rendered correctly, while water surface textures on the other 4 directional faces get stretched & skewed. When axis = 2, only Top & Bottom water surface textures are rendered correctly. When Axis = 1, only North & South water surface textures are rendered correctly. When Axis = 0, only East & West water surface textures are rendered correctly. In NewDark, all water surface textures render correctly and rotate and/or scroll in the direction(s) specified.
...

As a result, you are correct - any proof is indeed lost to time (or maybe just a different forum ).

Sorry, this is super off-topic - my brain just wouldn't let me rest until I found the closest possible thing to proof.

[67d0e580a43e8voodoo47]

my brain just wouldn't let me rest

you'll fit right in.

[67d0e580a4574CyrusVonNox2001]

I did see the screenshot for BotM and I think they should smooth out some of the polygonal map design, I know SS2 is from 1999, but I'm pretty sure none of our insides are that angular.

[67d0e580a46baZylonBane]

Someone hold me back.

[67d0e580a4a2dLivo]

eldrone
Cheers, thanks for that info, I really appreciate it!

With the Squirrel based animation implementation for KexDark, does that make life much easier to port/create in-game scripted sequences, like the "Journey throughout the Many" hallucination, or Shodan's office reveal compared to the old engine? Or was that more a "Cinematic & camera tools for Dark was the real headache for Irrational & Nightdive" problem?

Hopefully Squirrel scripting for level-sequences will greatly benefit future modders and FM authors. Speaking of in-game engine scripted scenes & animations, I've posted about this before as the dumb ideas guy, but is there any possibility of some of the cutscenes being rendered in-engine with the improved tools? I DON'T mean the cheesy "Trioptimum von Braun promo with the fancy 3D ship fly-by" intro, that'd be way, way too fiddly & time-consuming to make! Just the actual "Goggles in his cryo-pod waking up", "Career choice shuttles leaving the station" and the final "Nah/don't you like my new look?" scenes.

Maybe the career choice shuttles could also be video files if Nightdive is really pushed for time, but in-game cryo-pod & ending would be fantastic, as you'd be able to see any graphical tweaks you're running displayed, rather than an awkward transition between engine and video. I've seen a few Let's Play videos of people running SHTUP or other mods, being taken aback at the abrupt quality shifts, as they didn't know about the video files prior.

[67d0e580a4b43ZylonBane]

Why would any of the cutscene be rendered in-engine when Night Dive has already remade them at higher quality?

[67d0e580a4e08Chandlermaki]

I did see the screenshot for BotM and I think they should smooth out some of the polygonal map design, I know SS2 is from 1999, but I'm pretty sure none of our insides are that angular.

Great idea! Hop into DromEd/ShockEd, and let us know how that goes for you! Surely this is entirely possible in Dark and there will be no technical limitations whatsoever!

[67d0e580a50d3Livo]

ZylonBane
I know Nightdive said they were redoing some cutscenes in higher quality, like the "von Braun with crew members walking around" comparison in one of their promo articles. I was rather naively hoping it was a "we only did the very first ship flyby as a video file, due to the vast amount of work needed to make 3D spaceships in KexDark, but surprise, everything else is in-game!" situation. Very optimistic I know 

Actually, has Nightdive explicitly confirmed that ALL of the cutscenes are just higher-resolution video recordings of their updated models & textures? All I can find is articles that just say "Redone higher quality cutscenes", but nothing on the format type. A lot of those articles are badly written by people who genuinely are unaware of any mods for SS2, or haven't even played it apparently.

[67d0e580a55d5eldrone]

eldrone
Cheers, thanks for that info, I really appreciate it!

With the Squirrel based animation implementation for KexDark, does that make life much easier to port/create in-game scripted sequences, like the "Journey throughout the Many" hallucination, or Shodan's office reveal compared to the old engine? Or was that more a "Cinematic & camera tools for Dark was the real headache for Irrational & Nightdive" problem?

Hopefully Squirrel scripting for level-sequences will greatly benefit future modders and FM authors. Speaking of in-game engine scripted scenes & animations, I've posted about this before as the dumb ideas guy, but is there any possibility of some of the cutscenes being rendered in-engine with the improved tools? I DON'T mean the cheesy "Trioptimum von Braun promo with the fancy 3D ship fly-by" intro, that'd be way, way too fiddly & time-consuming to make! Just the actual "Goggles in his cryo-pod waking up", "Career choice shuttles leaving the station" and the final "Nah/don't you like my new look?" scenes.

Maybe the career choice shuttles could also be video files if Nightdive is really pushed for time, but in-game cryo-pod & ending would be fantastic, as you'd be able to see any graphical tweaks you're running displayed, rather than an awkward transition between engine and video. I've seen a few Let's Play videos of people running SHTUP or other mods, being taken aback at the abrupt quality shifts, as they didn't know about the video files prior.

The idea has crossed my mind a few times but all the cutscenes are still hand-remade and pre-rendered like before.

It would absolutely be possible though.


This is made as modders tools, so like you said, a fan mission or a mod could make something like a small cutscene without having to deal with shocked setups, or for example add something without having to edit SCP .mis files.


But the idea is just a table you create in squirrel that has a series of events at certain time points. Like teleport camera, move camera from point a to point b over time, trigger a TurnOn message on something, spawn an object, make an AI walk somewhere, fade in fade out etc.

At the end of it the cutscene state is cleaned up and game returns to normal.


And then you just send a message such as PlayCutscene with the name of the cutscene to the player object and it'll trigger.

[67d0e580a5783CyrusVonNox2001]

Chandlermaki
Ok, bad take on my part.

[67d0e580a5872voodoo47]

a situation where Dark decides to be Dark and gets stuck on some step during an in-engine cutscene softlocking the game surely is less than desirable.

[67d0e580a5a5feldrone]

a situation where Dark decides to be Dark and gets stuck on some step during an in-engine cutscene softlocking the game surely is less than desirable.

True, but this goes for pretty much anything in dark.

Scripted cutscenes would only lock up if the actual script execution locks up.

The game is actually full of in-game cutscenes, but most happen with the player still in control.

[67d0e580a5cf2Livo]

eldrone
Fantastic to hear, that's wonderful news! I'm sure the scripting animation Squirrel system will encourage a lot more people to experiment with the editing tools!

I guess I'd better start learning how to animate in Blender and also how to code in Squirrel, if I want to attempt an in-engine cutscene mod, or a "career choice affects the type of sleeve the player has a la Gareth Hinds' concept art" mod, or any one of my utterly crazy ideas 

[67d0e580a5df3sarge945]

Does this mean we can have a more accurate/realistic representation of the macarena?

If so, sign me the fuck up. In fact, just hook it up to my veins.