Tell me where did all the female hybrids go?

[674276ede158bvoodoo47]

it's too distorted to tell for sure, but as I've said back then, it does lean more towards a female face, when you compare it to all the other models. that's why I'm adding "most likely" pretty much everywhere (maybe I shouldn't have used "canonically" there, perhaps, "when you look at the SS2 universe as a whole" would fit better. but that changes little).

anyway, I'm pretty sure I'm done with this - no need to address anything from the post above, I would be just repeating myself.


lets make it short one more time - the reason why the model was not created is that its lack can be explained in a believable way, most likely.


//ah, K has split this up - good, and moving to Recreation.

[674276ede1cc4endwars]

Kolya
Sorry to litter the thread, please do that.

//eh, seems like I have to repeat one more time - the reason why the model was not created is that its lack can be explained in a believable way, most likely.

So I will repeat it again, it doesn't need an in game explanation. You could explain it in a million different yet likely ways, still wouldn't be canon. That explanation is something you made up, like Kolya said, it is your head canon.

I will demonstrate:
Maybe annelid Grub has a high mortality rate on females and Turnbull is one of the rare females to survive? Maybe that's why we don't see female hybrids.

Maybe Many disposes female hybrids, because they have a tendency of disobeying its orders do to having a slightly different brain chemistry than males.

Maybe most females are immune to annelid Grub and Turnbull is one of the exceptions.

See, you could come up with many explanations, all of them are believable, yet it still doesn't require an explanation and still none of it is canon.

Real explanation is they just didn't bother to create one, even though there is supposed to be one.

[674276ede1ff4voodoo47]

the reason why the model was not created is that its lack can be explained in a believable way, most likely.

[674276ede2387endwars]

yet it still doesn't require an explanation

[674276ede2adcvoodoo47]

ok, lets check why this even started;

You know there are supposed to be female hybrids. There is solid proof there are supposed to be female hybrids in the game.

no. if I'm making up explanations to excuse their non-existence, then you are also just making up explanations to excuse their existence. my recommendation is to look at what exists within the game, and see whether it works. which it does, no changes are necessary.

Rectifying a small issue like that shouldn't be a big deal, especially since they are remaking the models. (My pistol female hybrid idea was pretty cool too.)

no. you are making the game into something it isn't. leave that to mods or remakes.

been nice talking to you.

[674276ede3527endwars]

voodoo47
Wait, I thought we were arguing with someone else now? I am jealous..   

ok, lets check why this even started;no. if I'm making up an explanations to excuse their non-existence, then you are also just making up explanations to excuse their existence. my recommendation is to look at what exists within the game, and see whether it works. which it does, no changes are necessary.no.

I hate to repeat myself, but again, there is only one model for male living crew and one model for female living crew model. So they all look alike. Yet this doesn't mean they are all the same person, or they are clones or something.

So, no. Your argument doesn't work. At any level.

I am not making up explanations to excuse their existence, they do exist canonically. They just lack a proper model because ALL hybrids use the same model, only with different textures and attachments. Old games are always like this, they don't have the modern sensibilities of "show, don't tell".

you are making the game into something it isn't. leave that to mods or remakes.

This simply isn't true. This is only your opinion. You can literally say this about anything that's being added to the game, including high poly models. They do not belong in SS2, they were not originally like that.

If this was going to replace the original game, I would agree. But I agree with lastmaster on this, this is going to be Enhanced Edition. Some small changes is to be expected. They need to improve the game, or else, what is the point?

been nice talking to you.

Been nice talking with you as well. (Even though you didn't say this to me... )

[674276ede3672voodoo47]

well looksie, seems like you actually took that over from lastmaster (//you certainly did, in more than one way, heh. will clean this up slightly once you decide which of your accounts do you want to keep). ah well, doesn't really matter.

[674276ede3759endwars]

It matters to me.

[674276ede3a16endwars]

well looksie, seems like you actually took that over from lastmaster. ah well, doesn't really matter.

Endwars said everything I would have said and more. To be perfectly honest, I didn't even think an argument about this could stretch this long, into its own topic at that. You two are hardcore.

[674276ede3b83Gawain]

Real question is was it the memory or the money budget why there are no female models?

[674276ede3e3fChandlermaki]

Gawain
...or maybe because it was just unnecessary?

It wouldn't have improved the game in any way.

[674276ede3fcevoodoo47]

as mentioned (a billion times), they most likely didn't think it was necessary, as the lack of female hybrids could be explained reasonably well within the reality of the SS2 universe, should someone actually ask the question.

even Turnbull works pretty ok - unless AI model upgrades are in play. hence, maybe NDS could make an exception and create a unique model for her - I wouldn't mind that at all. but going all out and actually incorporate them into the ecologies, eeeh, not a great idea, remember, if you look at the mod downloads on this site, most people like vanilla just higher res/bugs squashed. they might not react all too well to half the hybrid population being suddenly turned into women.

so while technically not a change of mechanics, doing that would probably be a bit too much, just like adding a shard hybrid, even though they are canon (09.JUL.14 From: Wood).

[674276ede41a7Nameless Voice]

I don't think any of the in-world explanations are all that reasonable, other than maybe "they're so disfigured that you can't tell."

The problem is really there because the old models weren't detailed enough to really tell, but the new models would be.

Personally, I'd like to see different variants, be that male and female, or just with different uniform colours based on deck, but it's not all that important, just a "nice to have".

If they do it, great.  If not, also fine.

[Edit: Reworded to make it clearer that different uniform colours are a separate thing from male/female variants.]

[674276ede4355voodoo47]

yes, as mentioned earlier, it would be quite hard to guess a gender of a human being that has been taken over by an alien parasite, pumped full of muscle growth hormones, has new tissue growths everywhere (vocal cords included), and essentially had its face ripped off. that alone is explanation enough, as far as I'm concerned.

unless you want to uhh, palpate the nether regions, but lets not go there, shall we? yeeah, I'm done with this.

[674276ede44e3Kolya]

The hybrids are foot soldiers. And the midwifes are dangerous "mothers", matching the theme of the game, in which Shodan herself is a cruel controlling mother figure.
What role would female hybrids have in the narrative? If they are just cosmetically different they would be no win. Changing things because it's "more realistic" is usually a bad guide in System Shock 2.

[674276ede46a3icemann]

I always assumed that the hybrid-ization process would nullify the gender of the effected person once they had changed beyond a certain point, as all genitals, boobs etc, would all be changed into a more set mold.

A bit like the mutants in Fallout that were changed via the FEV toxin. Whether they were male or female they'd all end up looking the same. Unlike SS2 this one was fully explained in-game. There were even some formerly female mutants in game. Tabitha in New Vegas for example.