SS2 Remake could be next

[673f43faea1e9Pacmikey]

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[673f43faea3dbGawain]

Looking at the direct comparisons I notice severe lack of animated screens on walls and ceilings.

Also the room with cyberjack on first level has nice ceiling light in original but the new on is just pitch black room.

[673f43faea624JDoran]

Berathraben, thanks for the screenshots and video, but wouldn't it be better to also put them on the updates webpage? This is a good forum, but it doesn't have a large number of members or visitors, so not many of the backers or potential customers will see your posts here. And many people, myself included, detest Discord, and so probably won't see anything posted on there.

If I may ask a few questions, is the game literally playable through to the end, now? What is left to be done? Would it be practical to release a clearly marked "For testing and bug reporting" build of the game now, exclusively to the backers? That would satisfy many people, and even the gamers who weren't eligable for the build would likely be mollified by this evidence of progress and the nearing of the commercial release?

[673f43faeac87Xkilljoy98]

Xkilljoy98I say that because it's what they called it before they switched to Unreal.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1598858095/system-shock/posts/2115044

Fair, tho I still say that it isn't the right wording

[673f43faeb1c6icemann]

And many people, myself included, detest Discord, and so probably won't see anything posted on there.

I'm definitely in that camp. I see Discord as like Mirc32 was back in the day. A quick chat program, and not one for things of long substance. More quick conversations.

Saying that, I use it daily for a chat group a bunch of work friends setup a few years ago, but that's all I use it for. I have been on the Night Dive discord, but very rarely.

@Berathraben: Screenshots and discussion like you've posted in this thread is the exact stuff I've been saying for years which needs to be in the KS updates. Give us detailed info on exactly where things are at, what's going on, have a random member of staff give info on stuff their working on (like what used to happen in the Twitch streams years ago). That's the exact stuff that backers expect. Especially if you want people to back any future games you may consider putting up for crowdfunding someday. If there is no detail, then there really isn't a point (beyond making that game happen), and it's not treating your backers as backers. More just gamers or people of the general public.

[673f43faeb36bXkilljoy98]

I really like discord, I use it a lot when talking in certain groups

Also yeah I agree that more stuff should be in the KS and not just shoved away into the discord where not everyone can see it

At the very least don't unlist the videos

[673f43faeb85fBerathraben]

JDoran
By web page I take it you mean either Nightdive's official web page or the Kickstarter page. I actually have no control over those and what   is posted there. I did these on my own working with in the wiggle room of the NDA. They are official insofar as I am moderator at their Discord. But these are technically not official Nightdive updates. And should not be taken as such unless it comes directly from Nightdive Studios accounts or Stephen himself.

There are still things I cannot show as much as I would like to. I just thought it would be nice to show something to the people of some further progression. As far as your question "Is the game really playable from beginning to end?" Yes it is and technically has been for some months now. Regarding would it be practical to release a build to backers at this time? I would say not quite.

I can break it down like this. They are working on various fixes to known things like finalizing the sound propagation that is causing enemy voices to carry through assets that have audio tied to them. Like the ones with light sources. They had to write their own code or software for this as Unreal's was not adequate for the job. And are just in the process of implementing it among other things. Once all that is done then I would say it is more then fair to have it ready for backers and hopefully there wont be nearly as many bugs. That is the goal to have it as smooth as possible. And everything in place. There are still some things that are not done yet.

They have a team of people doing QA as well as several of the moderators playing through it poking holes in it.
My personal opinion is that it is close to being ready for the backer beta.

[673f43faebc94Berathraben]

icemann
I agree. Discord is alright for general chat and sharing information on the go. But as you say it is not good for any kind of archiving or finding information with general web searches. Reddit or some other forum is much better for this.

As I said in my previous post I am not part of the decision making process over what goes on the Kickstarter, Twitter, etc.
I am just trying my best to give people something where they can physically see progression with out violating those NDA.

[673f43faebde1icemann]

And for that we are grateful . More just when I see these details, I'm thinking "Why in the world is that not in the KS updates".

Saying that, I know why (of not spoiling). I just don't agree with the why.

[673f43faec1f1Xkilljoy98]

Berathraben
Well I appreciate anything you do share, and am interested to see what else comes up

Also IDK if you know the answer, but is there a reason why they don't seem to be answering certain questions?

Awhile ago I asked about the music and I got a non-answer

[673f43faec4a1Berathraben]

Xkilljoy98
I am afraid I don't know other than they want to keep everything under wraps at this point.

[673f43faec5ebPacmikey]

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[673f43faec9faXkilljoy98]

Xkilljoy98
I am afraid I don't know other than they want to keep everything under wraps at this point.

Well that sucks, IDK why they are making certain changes and refusing to mention them

Hoping for alt models for enemies and cut weapons seems unlikely tho hopefully an alt OST as an option if nothing else

Otherwise I am gonna have to mod the game in order to truely enjoy it

[673f43faecb25icemann]

Its all due to the "not wanting to spoil the surprise" approach, as previously mentioned.

[673f43faecdb7Xkilljoy98]

Its all due to the "not wanting to spoil the surprise" approach, as previously mentioned.

Well it would ease my worries

And plus they kinda gave everything away in the millions of screenshots they've gave

[673f43faecf7bJDoran]

Berathraben, Thanks for answering my questions, and I appreciate that there are hard limits to what you can say about anything related to System Shock Remake. I did mean the Kickstarter update page, and your clearly written updates, and the screenshots and video would be seen by more backers/fans if posted there.

[673f43faed097Pacmikey]

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[673f43faed3a6Join2]

+Cyberspace is quite the improvement even if it leans heavily into 80s thematic styling (sound effects, music, visuals...).
+I just love the HUD (visually, can't truly judge function yet).
+Deus Ex style toolbelt. Nicely done.
+Grid Inventory. Love it. Don't care for the original's list. Everything interface looks better. Looks like a cross between SS2 and Deus Ex in that regard, which is of course awesome.
+I like the visuals overall (minus certain things, like those pointed out by ZylonBane).
+Nice that we get just a little bit of inaccuracy while moving, which to my knowledge didn't exist vanilla. We definitely need certain nerfs now that we no longer have to battle awful controls and the like.
+I like the little details that fulfill what wasn't present vanilla, like AI ambient noises, or grav shafts working on everything not just the player (can AI path on and off of them to chase the player?). And of course I am praying the AI are more than just slow-moving turrets this time around.

-Do we really have to shoot purple stars in Cyberspace while grating 80s arcade sound effects blare? I know it wasn't too different vanilla but I checked my cool-o-meter and it says you guys need to up your game just a little more.
-Player animations, as others have said. Still, they're quite brief at least, so I don't strongly object.

Suggestion:

resources required to use med bed and cyborg conversion chambers on highest difficulty.
More punchy sound effect for the sparq beam
More weapons, inventory , enemy types and obstacles in cyberspace. Please go nuts. Vanilla sucked in this regard.

When can we play this? I really like what I see. I am certainly not the biggest SS1 fan though. SS2 is my game.

[673f43faed6b3Xkilljoy98]

I thought it was placeholder, but Stephen just said on Reddit that the March 2023 date on Steam is accurate. I'm gonna temper my expectations and expect a May-June release, but at least it means SS2 enhanced is coming soon!
https://www.reddit.com/r/systemshock/comments/zmx807/comment/j0hb4f2/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

IDK, we've had so many delays that I can't believe one till it's out

[673f43faedcc3Xkilljoy98]

+Cyberspace is quite the improvement even if it leans heavily into 80s thematic styling (sound effects, music, visuals...).
+I just love the HUD (visually, can't truly judge function yet).
+Deus Ex style toolbelt. Nicely done.
+Grid Inventory. Love it. Don't care for the original's list. Everything interface looks better. Looks like a cross between SS2 and Deus Ex in that regard, which is of course awesome.
+I like the visuals overall (minus certain things, like those pointed out by ZylonBane).
+Nice that we get just a little bit of inaccuracy while moving, which to my knowledge didn't exist vanilla. We definitely need certain nerfs now that we no longer have to battle awful controls and the like.
+I like the little details that fulfill what wasn't present vanilla, like AI ambient noises, or grav shafts working on everything not just the player (can AI path on and off of them to chase the player?). And of course I am praying the AI are more than just slow-moving turrets this time around.

-Do we really have to shoot purple stars in Cyberspace while grating 80s arcade sound effects blare? I know it wasn't too different vanilla but I checked my cool-o-meter and it says you guys need to up your game just a little more.
-Player animations, as others have said. Still, they're quite brief at least, so I don't strongly object.

Suggestion:

resources required to use med bed and cyborg conversion chambers on highest difficulty.
More punchy sound effect for the sparq beam
More weapons, inventory , enemy types and obstacles in cyberspace. Please go nuts. Vanilla sucked in this regard.

When can we play this? I really like what I see. I am certainly not the biggest SS1 fan though. SS2 is my game.

New cyberspace music while having the same sort of flow as the original, lacks the original's power and kick, here it's too muted and reserved imo

As for the look, it looks fine on its own and would be good for a sequel, but for a remake of SS1 IMO it lacks the sort of otherworldly space feel that the original had with its blackness and transparent walls.

[673f43faede61Join2]

"New cyberspace music while having the same sort of flow as the original, lacks the original's power and kick, here it's too muted and reserved imo"

Yeah I'm very concerned about the overall soundtrack, what with what music has become over the last two decades.

As for the look of cyberspace in particular, yeah it didn't have to be a neon lightshow, and it would have been cooler to go wireframe. I did criticize that already.
I imagine at this point they're not changing it, so it is what it is.

[673f43faee267Xkilljoy98]

"New cyberspace music while having the same sort of flow as the original, lacks the original's power and kick, here it's too muted and reserved imo"

Yeah I'm very concerned about the overall soundtrack, what with what music has become over the last two decades.

As for the look of cyberspace in particular, yeah it didn't have to be a neon lightshow, and it would have been cooler to go wireframe. I did criticize that already.
I imagine at this point they're not changing it, so it is what it is.

Well I have less of an issue with music overall outside of this game (though that is another topic), but yeah the Remake's soundtrack is just awful, it completely changes the original's great music for no reason (and the devs refuse to say why no matter how often I ask them), and they won't even mention an alt OST even though that would be the easiest thing in the world to do. The original's music fit so well and the new music doesn't fit SS1.

Yeah it's too colorful, sure it has the cyber of cyberspace but is lacking in the space. Yeah seeing wireframe in HD could have been really cool.

Well hard to say what they're doing, but I doubt they are changing anything cause they refuse to listen to any feedback that doesn't like what they do, they ignore it or ban you for it.

[673f43faee4d9Creamy]

"they won't even mention an alt OST even though that would be the easiest thing in the world to do."

While I agree I too would like an original OST option, you're grossly simplifying and understating the difficulty of game development. It isn't a case of simply replacing some .ogg or .mp3 files, and no matter how many times you seem to suggest otherwise, it just isn't the case.

"Well hard to say what they're doing, but I doubt they are changing anything cause they refuse to listen to any feedback that doesn't like what they do, they ignore it or ban you for it."

This is patently false. Feedback most certainly is listened to, it's just that with all due respect you seem incapable of accepting when certain decisions have finalized, and repeatedly requesting to fundamentally change such things 5+ years into the project is simply unfeasible. You're conflating voicing our personal dislike for something and it not changing - to the developers not listening to feedback at all, which is naive at best and disingenuous at worst.

[673f43faeeb43Xkilljoy98]

"they won't even mention an alt OST even though that would be the easiest thing in the world to do."

While I agree I too would like an original OST option, you're grossly simplifying and understating the difficulty of game development. It isn't a case of simply replacing some .ogg or .mp3 files, and no matter how many times you seem to suggest otherwise, it just isn't the case.

"Well hard to say what they're doing, but I doubt they are changing anything cause they refuse to listen to any feedback that doesn't like what they do, they ignore it or ban you for it."

This is patently false. Feedback most certainly is listened to, it's just that with all due respect you seem incapable of accepting when certain decisions have finalized, and repeatedly requesting to fundamentally change such things 5+ years into the project is simply unfeasible. You're conflating voicing our personal dislike for something and it not changing - to the developers not listening to feedback at all, which is naive at best and disingenuous at worst.

Well fair, I am not saying it is like super easy but all I meant was that they already had the original music done (and people who have offered to let them use their remixes), why not put the time into putting it into the game, people clearly want it. If nothing else they should explain why they changed it. Plus putting in music that is already made is easier than say modeling or texturing from scratch.

I can understand when some choices are finalized but I don't have to agree with them. They could at least bother to explain themselves or give players the option for how certain things work, I don't feel like I am asking for too much.

Every time I tried to give my concerns at multiple stages in development, I never felt it was addressed or listened to.

Would I like some art, enemy, and weapon changes, yes of course, at this point all I really want is a OST option, would I like more yes, but music is my biggest concern.

I gave feedback when development was early and they didn't listen or explain things then either, I even asked for an explanation not even saying they had to change anything, but I didn't even get that. Just a vague non-answer at best and being ignored or being hated on at worst (not to mention a ban without warning or appeal).

Plus you being a NDS mod I don't think that makes you the most unbiased person either. I have my biases and my preferences, but that goes both ways.

Yes I don't agree with the changes, I think they are harmful to SS1, I would like them changed (some of which can be done), but I'd even take an explanation (and not a vague one).

Plus they've delayed it before like 5 times over 8 years, what's another delay?

If some like it, that's fine, but if they change important aspects of the original game without any alt options or even an explanation, I have a right to be upset, even if I can't change anything.