SS2 Randomiser

[673ef745be73dsarge945]

°DML °Veteran

SS2 Randomiser v1.22
by Sarge945

This mod aims to add more variety to System Shock 2, as well as reinforcing the importance of exploration and situational awareness. It does so by randomising the locations of all the enemies, goodies and loot, as well as most quest items (such as the dead powercell in medsci1). It is designed to feel "natural", as if the items were placed by hand with care in each playthrough, and a lot of work has gone into making the mod feel seamless.

Great care has been taken to ensure there are no possible failure states. All progression-related items should be available when required.

While It was specifically designed for long-term players who already have pre-established mental models of where items are, and who instinctively know to check or ignore certain areas, it should be a lot of fun for newer players as well. Speed and exploration are especially important in a game like System Shock 2 with respawning enemies, and a lot of the difficulty can be mitigated by experienced players essentially speeding through the maps without taking the time to explore or look for items.

Features
The mod was made with a focus on maintaining balance while keeping the game fresh, and as such, generally follows these rules:

• Designed for SCP and compatible with almost all DML mods, some may require patches but they aren't difficult to make
• Secmod support out of the box, no addons necessary
• Only existing items are moved, no new items are added
• Enemies are randomised to similar ones, new strategies may be required! Care has been made to make sure the lore is followed.
• Most items can appear anywhere
• Care has been taken to ensure item placements make sense and maintain consistency with the original game - body bags will only contain hypos, bars and kitchens will be stocked with food and beverages, etc.
• Some items are not moved at all to maintain consistency with the world and logs, such as the shotgun outside the fluidics control room
• "Reward items" and such are also unchanged, such as the French-Epstein device at the end of the cargo bays, which is designed to reward the player after a grueling challenge
• Security Crates will randomise their contents with other security crates, but not with the general map items. You will still need to hack security crates to get the items they contain.
• Weapons and other "high value" or rare items will only appear in their given area. The shotgun in R&D for instance will only appear in R&D, it will not appear elsewhere in the Science sector.
• Items that require hacking (such as the medsci1 cryo closet) or skills to access (such as psi pull items) are completely unchanged.
• Randomisers will try to keep roughly the same overall item distribution. If a closet had 3-4 items in the original game, it will likely have a similar amount. Don't expect closets overflowing with items or large stretches of empty areas. Some adjustments have been made to item distribution however to even out certain parts that had too many or too few items.
• Annelid Eggs can be replaced with eggs of any type relevant to the deck. Goo eggs may be replaced by swarmer eggs, worm eggs etc

The mod can be seen in action here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4qi_S4TYLc
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1766191296

Installing
There are 2 main versions. Lite and Full. Full is a superset of Lite, and all addons will work for both versions. Do NOT install both Lite and Full, they are mutually exclusive. Main versions should appear lower priority (closer to the bottom) in the mod manager than any addons.

The table below details the differences between the two main versions.

Goodies	B
Weapons	F
Armor	N (rare and already perfectly placed)
Plot Items	B
Audio Logs	B (only when using the Audio Logs addon)
Security Crates	B
Eggs	F
Enemies	F
Extra Locations	N (medsci only, upcoming in a future version)

B means that all of the items of a given type for a given map are randomised in both versions of the mod
F means that items of a given type are only randomised in the Full version
N means that items of a given type are not randomised at all

"Goodies" refers to any item in the game that isn't part of the other categories, that can be obtained by the player. Game boys, chips, sodas, FE devices, auto-repair kits, implants, etc etc.
"Plot Items" refers to Toxin A, Keycards, Power Cells, Art Terminals, Hardware Overrides, etc.
"Extra Locations" allows items to appear in otherwise empty locations, such as behind boxes, on shelves, in small nooks etc. It is very important to look around and search thoroughly if you want to find everything!

There are also several addons available. Addons should appear higher priority than the main versions in the mod manager. Here's an explanation of what each one does:

• No Spiders - This completely removes spiders from the game. In most cases spiders will be randomised to a different enemy type. In some cases where spiders aren't randomised (such as the vent ambush trap in the rickenbacker), they are instead replaced with worms.
• No Swarms - This completely removes swarm eggs from the game. It also removes the associated audio log talking about them on the recreation deck. All swarm eggs will be replaced with a different type of egg.
• Ops4 Key - Operations contains a Security Card, however it's useless in vanilla because the security booth (containing Bronson's corpse) can be opened using the Security Card found in engineering. Since the card is already randomised, this addon makes it so that you're required to find the card in order to unlock the security booth.
• RSD - This makes some minor changes to some areas to accommodate the Rebalanced Skills and Disciplines mod. For instance, RSD adds a power cell door to Hydro, which normally leads to an empty room. This addon disables the randomiser spot within that room, since RSD already puts goodies in there, and it's important that no plot items spawn in that room given that it's locked in RSD. Load this higher than RSD.
• Trash - In Vanilla, garbage cans can hold all sorts of items - nanites, cybermodules, implants, weapons, etc. This addon forces them to only ever contain junk items such as magazines or chips.
• Logs - This adds randomisation for Audio Logs. This is not to everyone's taste, so it's optional.
• Less OG-s - This adds reduces the number of Shotgun Hybrids appearing in MedSci. Made by request.

Frequently Asked Questions

Q: Does this work with SCP
A: Yes

Q: Does this work with Rebalanced Skills and Disciplines?
A: Yes, use the compatibility addon and load it above both mods

Q: Does this work with Secmod
A: Yes. No additional files or add-ons are necessary, simply enable it in the manager alongside secmod and it will work.

Q: Does this work with <insert other mod here>
A: Most likely yes, as long as it's a DML mod. It should be compatible with most things that don't make extensive changes to the item distribution or positioning. If in doubt, ask in the thread and you should get an answer.

Q: Does enemy randomisation work with other mods, such as Pistol Hybrids or Shard Hybrids?
A: Yes, but it will affect the enemy spawn ratios. If a pipe hybrid is spawned, it may then be replaced with a pistol hybrid, for instance, reducing the total number of pipe hybrids. Please also keep in mind that some enemy replacement mods don't respect patrol paths, links, or triggers, so enemy AI may be affected. This is an issue with these mods which I cannot fix.

Q: Can you randomise keypad codes?
A: No, this is not possible for technical reasons - audio logs cannot be updated dynamically. However, the point of randomising keypad codes is to prevent players using previously learned codes on repeat playthroughs. If this is desired, consider using No Keypad Cheese, which accomplishes the same goal without using randomisation.

Q: I'm a FM author, can I make this work for my FM?
A: The system itself is pretty generic and should be usable with FMs, provided squirrel.osm is loaded. Adding support for your FM will require creating object pools and randomisers in DML, and linking items to pools. I don't know much about FMs, so this answer is intentionally somewhat vague.

Q: I'm a mod author, and my mod adds new items, can I make my mod compatible with this one?
A: Yes. If your mod adds new items to existing containers, it's automatically compatible, no work is necessary. All your items will be randomised automatically. New items and containers added to the world will need to be linked to relevant object pools. See the existing mission DMLs for a list of the object pools on each map and examples of how the original world-items are linked to them. If you want to specifically prevent an object you add to a container from being randomised, there are metaproperties for that, see gamesys.dml

Issue Reporting
Bug reports are always welcome. As well as a description of the problem (and screenshots), it would be very useful to send through a copy of ss2.log as well, since this will contain the seed numbers used by the randomisers. Doing so will allow me to recreate the exact situation in the editor, and should make finding bugs much easier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIgecuBBWJo

You can discuss this mod, provide feedback, and talk about my other mods here

Changelog

Beta 1

- Initial Version

Beta 2

- Fixed the issue where loading an autosave would prevent randomisation.
- Autosaves still happen before randomisation occurs, allowing rerolls. Not sure if I should consider this a bug or a feature.
- No longer set objects transient

Beta 3

- Autosaving now works as intended - You can no longer reroll by loading an autosave.

Beta 4

- Increased initial delay from 0.01 to 0.04 because some maps were causing crashes with a lot of mods
- Added Hydro.

Beta 5:

- Fixed medsci1 crash when loading other script-heavy mods like RSD
- Fixed a case where it wasn't perfectly deterministic in some cases, resulting in autosave rerolling on some maps (like medsci2) for some randomisers.
- Added some Hydro items that were missed.

Beta 6:

- medsci2:
    - Added medbed key to randomiser.
    - Removed dead monkey on medbed from randomiser, it will no longer receive items, since this made for some silly combinations (monkey with a psi amp, for instance).
- eng2:
    - French-Epstein device in Cargo Bay 2 made to not randomise as it is a reward for completing the cargo bays.
- hydro2:
    - Added medbed key to randomiser.
    - Laser Pistol, Laser Rapier and Grenade Launcher can no longer appear in the secret area above the egg observation rooms, only in their respective areas.
    - The LabAssistant implant will now always be found in the offices/labs, never in Sector B or C, to aid progression for people who want to use it to research Toxin A.
    - Added a missing anti-radiation hypo.
- hydro1:
    - Added Cyber Modules back to the small nook near the start of the level, they are no longer randomised. It's difficult to put items up there due to physics limitations, so they are left for now - better to have the same item than a little nook with nothing in it.
    - Assault Rifle no longer randomised, as it's somewhat special (especially with RSD where it's the first Assault Rifle in the game). I may change this.

Beta 7:
- MedSci2 shotgun is no longer randomised, as it's likely the first proper shotgun most players will acquire.
- Added support for Ops maps.
- High Priority outputs no longer get junk items
    - High Priority outputs are used for various situations where guaranteeing loot makes sense, such as various corpses that release worms when interacted with, and for particularly hazardous encounters. These are now guaranteed to give at least one useful item, rather than having the possibility of giving items like chips, a magazine, etc.
- Various tweaks to earlier levels.
- Weapons and key items should now be a lot more evenly distributed with their placements, as they ignore various spawn conditions and can appear almost anywhere.

Beta 8:
- Physics-Controlled objects will remember their state if swapping with an item of a similar archetype
    - Similar is defined as "anything with a similar shape", so for instance vodka, champagne and liquor
    - This realistically means that it should now be possible to see standing-up bottles, even when swapped. This makes the medsci2 bar look much better
- Fixed some bugs including a severe bug where objects could appear on top of or inside each other
- Minor changes to some map randomisation
    - The turret corridoor in medsci1 is no longer guaranteed to contain an item. I might change this.
    - MedSci2 closet where the 2 shotgun hybrids ambush the player is now high priority, so the box in that room should always contain something worthwhile.
- For objects in tricky spots (such as the gun on the roof section in medsci2), instead of disabling item output entirely, those objects can still appear in their original locations occasionally.
    - This realistically means the pistol will appear in it's normal spot sometimes. The rest of the time the spot will be empty. Other items in some spots are also affected.
- The mod now spits out seeds for all randomisers to the log file. This should make reporting bugs much easier, as the exact setup can be replicated in the editor.

Beta 9:
- Major rewrite. Massively simplified everything. Should make development much quicker/easier going forward and result in a lot less bugs.
- Randomised various quest items
    - Science Sector Card (medsci1, still limited to Cryo Recovery B)
    - R&D Card (medsci2, still limited to Dr Watts room)
    - Hardware Override chips (eng1, still limited to Auxillary Storage 5)
- Other minor tweaks to some randomisations.

Beta 10:
- Added Recreation Deck.
- Fixed numerous bugs.

Beta 11:
- Added Command Deck.
- Fixed a critical bug where Weapons and other "specific" items would only ever spawn in containers or on markers (would not replace existing items).

Beta 12:
- Added Rickenbacker maps.
- Bodybags can now contain Nanites as well as Hypos, since in vanilla the medsci ones only contained hypos and the rick ones only contained nanites. This may be changed in the future.

Beta 13:
- Added Body of the Many and Shodan maps
- Added RSD Powercells to randomisers (where possible). Adding all of them will require a new version of RSD.
- Objects tagged "allow self only" now allow other, similar items.
    - This means that item spawns will be more dynamic in a few cases where items originally had weird orientations or characteristics (see the readme for more information)
- Fixed an issue where objects tagged with "containers only" would invalidate the "allow self only" tag. Now thet can appear either in a random container, or their original position.
- Fixed a strange edge case where some randomisers wouldn't run correctly, resulting in items appearing inside each other and inconsistent values when using the same seed.
- Other minor tweaks, addition of some missed items, and small bugfixes

Beta 14:
- Complete rewrite under-the-hood to be message based. Randomising should now be much faster!
- Added egg randomisation for all levels except BOTM (needs thorough testing!)
- Fixed a few errors with some item spots looking weird
- Fixed broken Hydro2 weapon randomisation (broken in Beta 13)

1.0 (Release Version)
- The mod is now split into 2 main versions, Lite and Full. Full contains all the features of Lite, plus it also randomises Enemy placement and non-plot-related audiologs
- All maps are now randomised
- Added "No Swarm Eggs" addon. Will prevent Swarm Eggs from appearing at all, and remove the relevant log in rec1 as well. To enable, use the optional file.
- RSD Compatibility is now an optional file. Will change some minor aspects of the randomisation to not clash with RSD Changes. To enable, use the optional file.
- Items with emails associated with them (Crystal Shards, Toxin A etc) will now randomise, and the email will be setup to work at the new location.
- Fixed "hypo only" outputs (like the medical beds in hydro2, and body bags) allowing medkits as well
- Fixed Hydro2 LabAssistant randomisation
- Added some more item locations, finished randomising all maps
- Added "Trash" addon - makes trash cans only contain junk items (magazines, cola, etc etc)
- Added "Ops4 Key" addon - makes the Security key in ops4 required to unlock the security booth (in Vanilla you can use the keycard from Engineering). Since it's randomised, it makes sense that it should serve some purpose.
- Added "No Spiders" addon. All spiders will be randomised to something else, and spiders which aren't randomised are replaced with either worms or monkeys

1.1 (Release Hotfix)
- Fixed race condition with Object.SetName and Object.Destroy, which was randomly preventing some AI's that were replaced from properly executing signal responses, leading to failed ambushes
- Changed the way Enemy randomisers work, now the ratio of enemies can be specified on the randomisers themselves, similar to other randomisers, rather than using a big table. This should allow proper support for FMs.
- Lite version is now much lighter, it no longer randomises weapons or eggs. There is now a lot more differentiation between Lite and Full, to hopefully give people more options.
- Audio Log randomisation is now an addon

1.2:
- Added Secmod support.
- Randomised a few items that I missed on various maps.
- Randomised the ops4 armoury. It only randomises amongst itself, so this is not a significant gameplay change.
- Fixed missing the captains quarters in command2, now that whole area is randomised properly.
- Added "Spawn Groups", allowing groups of objects to be randomised to the same type of object. This is used in a few places for enemy spawns.
- Moved Batteries from 2 enemies in Rick1 into containers, allowing them to randomise properly when the enemies are replaced. [Thanks Deu Sex]
- The hackable vault behind the athletics lobby desk in rec1 is now randomised.

1.22:
- Attempted fix for objects falling through floor.
- Objects now use radius instead of a fixed height for spawning, which should result in less objects "jumping" after being spawned
- Added a "Less Shotgunners in MedSci" addon (Less OG-S)

Special Thanks
@RoSoDude for testing and development advice
@bombum for testing through multiple playthroughs and finding significant bugs, what a champion!
@JossiRossi for object data from their randomiser attempt as well as development advice.
@voodoo47 for the excellent Recycler mod, which made testing on some maps without squirrel (rick3 for instance) much easier.
@Deu sex for testing and streaming.
@Joe for Secmod testing.
@ThiefsieFool for Secmod information and help.

[673ef745bea2fPacmikey]

.

[673ef745becf1sarge945]

Does this also mean a rogue-like mod could be possible?

No

[673ef745beecaJossiRossi]

Just did a quick run through medsci1, seems to be working great!

The second dead battery position did get randomized, which I don't mind at all, but I think it may have been unintended as most other key items were kept in the same place?

Not sure if adding new possible locations for items is something you'd want? Trying to think of a sane way to do that with the look over your code, but I think ultimately it may require either an external file with the list of new coordinates, or adding some kind of placeholder items to the dml file for the scripts to add to the coordinate possibilities before the script is run (if it even operates in that order).

[673ef745bf5cdsarge945]

Just did a quick run through medsci1, seems to be working great!

That's awesome to hear! Glad you had a good experience with it!

The second dead battery position did get randomized, which I don't mind at all, but I think it may have been unintended as most other key items were kept in the same place?

It was intentional.

I am trying to think of other ways to handle other plot items, but unfortunately many of them are attached to various logs/emails. For instance, for the Crew Card and R and D card we are told both times exactly where to go, so randomising them doesn't make sense.

Some other cards, like the Hydro A,B and D cards, are randomised.

For the Crew card in medsci2, I was thinking of something special for that one that would still be within the lore, but we will see if I can pull it off

Not sure if adding new possible locations for items is something you'd want? Trying to think of a sane way to do that with the look over your code, but I think ultimately it may require either an external file with the list of new coordinates, or adding some kind of placeholder items to the dml file for the scripts to add to the coordinate possibilities before the script is run (if it even operates in that order).

I already have a number of new item locations. In medsci1 you may have noticed some items placed on desks/tables, or in corner spots that aren't normally used. I place markers and add them to the object pools, which uses them as outputs.

[673ef745bfabbJossiRossi]

I am trying to think of other ways to handle other plot items, but unfortunately many of them are attached to various logs/emails. For instance, for the Crew Card and R and D card we are told both times exactly where to go, so randomising them doesn't make sense.

Some other cards, like the Hydro A,B and D cards, are randomised.

For the Crew card in medsci2, I was thinking of something special for that one that would still be within the lore, but we will see if I can pull it off

Yeah, I think these choices come down to the ideology (I guess?) of the randomizing. I had a few modes for instance, where key items stayed vanilla, were randomized within the vanilla room, or just anywhere that would be accessible at that time during vanilla play.

I love it randomized as much as possible, but then you get stuck in the quagmires I did with my attempt. A more reasonable approach is probably options for vanilla placement only, or a small set of possible alternatives with the diversity being dictated by the lore or implementation complexity.

I already have a number of new item locations. In medsci1 you may have noticed some items placed on desks/tables, or in corner spots that aren't normally used. I place markers and add them to the object pools, which uses them as outputs.

Oh sorry! I was still a bit stuck in my headspace for my randomizer attempt, I added like 3x as many spots, so vanilla placement was more rare, so I must have glossed over the new spots. I think I do recall there being a couple spots without items that I thought there was supposed to be. So that's awesome, I'm glad that's already in!

I'm so glad a proper randomizer is being created, this already ticks a ton of the boxes I had been wanting!

[673ef745c04b3sarge945]

Yeah, I think these choices come down to the ideology (I guess?) of the randomizing. I had a few modes for instance, where key items stayed vanilla, were randomized within the vanilla room, or just anywhere that would be accessible at that time during vanilla play.

I love it randomized as much as possible, but then you get stuck in the quagmires I did with my attempt. A more reasonable approach is probably options for vanilla placement only, or a small set of possible alternatives with the diversity being dictated by the lore or implementation complexity.

I am thinking of creating a version with "extended" plot item randomisation. It's not hard to do, it's just on my list.

Oh sorry! I was still a bit stuck in my headspace for my randomizer attempt, I added like 3x as many spots, so vanilla placement was more rare, so I must have glossed over the new spots. I think I do recall there being a couple spots without items that I thought there was supposed to be. So that's awesome, I'm glad that's already in!

I am VERY interested in the locations of the spots you had in mind (namely their X,Y,Z positions and their facing directions). If you could help me with these I would appreciate it very much. I could PM you about it. I would credit you for those item locations.

The hardest part of this has been adding new locations. Both in terms of finding devious spots, but also in terms of actually putting the effort into writing the DML for them, which usually involves placing an object in the editor, making sure it looks right, writing down it's coordinates into the DML, then testing thoroughly.

Please be as devious and evil as possible with your item locations. I consider it good if players are likely to miss items if they don't really look. Don't worry about missing key items though - I already have a system in place for dealing with that, and ensuring keycards and other plot items always appear within their areas in mostly obvious spots.

I'm so glad a proper randomizer is being created, this already ticks a ton of the boxes I had been wanting!

Yeah this is something I have been wanting to do for quite a long time.

[673ef745c07afXkilljoy98]

Shouldn't this be under SS2 Mods?

[673ef745c0a09sarge945]

Shouldn't this be under SS2 Mods?

It's not finished yet, and still needs more testing by more people, as it makes extensive changes to item placements and it's more than possible I screwed something up.

When it's done up to the end of the game and it's been tested by a few more people, I will ask voodoo to move it.

[673ef745c0b6fFlannelpuppy]

Hey sarge, I heard you're looking for feedback on this mod and figured I'd check it out. It looks so cool. This is some exciting shit.

I finished a panic filled, impossible OSA ironman run with RoSo's mod a while back. It was so fun I don't even care that I died to the falling crates in ops (STILL SALTY, I DO CARE). Anyway.

If I do another run, but with your mod installed on top of RoSo's, would you want that feedback, or with just your mod installed? Thanks again for the good work. Balance + randomization is like, the perfect chaos/order sandwich. yum

[673ef745c0e1dsarge945]

If I do another run, but with your mod installed on top of RoSo's, would you want that feedback, or with just your mod installed? Thanks again for the good work. Balance + randomization is like, the perfect chaos/order sandwich. yum

Both are fine. Just keep in mind some of the items added by rsd won't be random, but they are few and far between

[673ef745c0fa0AT]

hey there Sarge,

Feedback no1: for the love of Christ almighty, where is the Hydroponics D card at? :-)

edit: Found it. Jeeesus. All good with the Randomiser, I basically missed a single box across the entire level...

[673ef745c1301AT]

Ok, I'd hit deck four so here's some feedback for the randomiser.


ADDONS  
SCP,  RSD, Item Randomiser, Scary Monsters, AlarmingCams,  Repairman, Unstable Grenades, Enemy Health Randomiser, Pistol Hybrid

BUILD  
OSA + Pistol + Laser Pistol + Repair skill on Impossible difficulty


FEEL
Game feels hard and exciting but not masochistic - tense and tons of fun.
Requires picking one's battles and stealth, which I always incorporate into the playstyle. It should be mentioned that I tend to play in an improvisational / flow-like style, staying in the moment which is to say I prevent myself thinking about minmaxing, hoarding, farming and grinding so that the priority is on role-playing, immersion and memorability of the experience over straight out efficiency and mapping every single corner and box. I also avoid quickloading and roll with the punches when having messed up, using the QRM system and paying up.
Seeing as a majority of players, unfortunately, do tend to play games slightly accountant style to get their money's worth or just maximize advantages (I'll grind now to make it easier/fun later) - it will no doubt have a big impact on balancing and should be remembered in your assessments.

That said, items feel scarce in a good way for me. The overall distribution of loot does not feel as even as I remember it to be in vanilla, but I find that to be a good thing - it feels more organic and less game'ish: lots of empty corpses and few concentrations where more things appear at once but never in a way that feels imbalanced.


FACTS (AKA THE ELEVATOR)
Arriving at deck 4 I have in the inventory / elevator:

450 nanites, hazmat suit, light armour, 3 laser pistols, 1 shotgun, 1 grenade launcher, few stacks of grenades, 4 pistol mags, 3-5 hypos each type on average, 1 stasis gun, 7 maintenance tools, 70 shotgun shells,

Most of the above I gathered as space allowed, for the purpose of your feedback even as I only have skills in using a pistol / laser pistol / hand grenades / light armor / hazmat suit.

I had found other stuff along the way that I'd left behind, such as a set of medium armor,  1 emp rifle, prisms, 2 assault rifles etc.
What I tend to do is drop a nav marker and describe it rather than do a trucking run to the elevator to hoard.

It'll be for you to figure out how much of this is randomiser vs other mods, but all in all - feels great!

[673ef745c1540sarge945]

That's good to know.

The overall item distribution is likely that way thanks to the RSD Loot Hose adjustments (especially on Impossible, which I believe is 70%, although RoSoDude will be able to confirm that).

Also keep in mind your overall resources will be lower because of the way the enemy health randomiser works.

The item Randomiser doesn't adjust item availability/resource management at all, other than players will on average find slightly less items by virtue of missing some that are in spots they miss, which would normally be empty. It only ever randomises the existing items in the maps, it adds/removes nothing.

I have seen veteran players who normally know where EVERY item in the game is, miss a bunch, especially in the cargo bays. I see this as working as intended.

Feedback wise, I am very interested in your opinions on the feel of the item distribution, moreso than the item availability. Have you found any instances where an item was in a spot that didn't quite feel right? Have you had cases where item stacks were wrong (such as finding a corpse with 4+ items on it while everything else is mostly empty?). Are there any item types you feel should or shouldn't be randomised? What was your opinion on the placement of certain key items (like Grassi's body locations)? I'm trying to make it feel as if the items were all conceivably hand placed with intention by the developers (even though they are not), similar to the original item placements. I have played many randomisers in the past for other games that remove all the nuance and interest from item placements and make everything feel generic, which I am trying to avoid here.

While I appreciate your overall feedback, I'm really looking to improve the feel of the randomiser moreso than the item distribution within the game - that's the job of other mods.

[673ef745c174bAT]

Fair. Does your randomiser only switch around items across vanilla predetermined spots (ie swopping object x from corpse A to B) or does it add its own placements also (ie added custom spot C nearby the corpse B)? I'm assuming new placement points were added, right?

Best I can say is that nothing felt to me out of place, which would be a testament to you having done a good job on the overall - since its coming from someone hardly remembering placements of items from vanilla, beyond few key spots of med-sci and the like.

If one point comes to my mind that may be worth investigating, where I felt concentration of things was high in one spot, was a little office room of the chemical storage in hydroponics, where I recall I felt there were a lot of items between the corpse there and the desk.

The only time, on the other hand, where I felt noticeable frustration was when I was re-running and sweeping the entirety of hydroponics deck for the hydro D keycard multiple times. It turned out I have missed a single little box in hydro A where the card was. Objectively, it was me having missed something - my own fault. Subjectively, addressing your question, it would have felt more natural to me were the key to be found on a dead body, sunk in the pool or another such location of a nature somewhat more notable than a random little crate stashed away in a distant corner.

Other than that, all felt good. I'll keep an eye out going forward, with what you said in mind.

[673ef745c25a9sarge945]

Fair. Does your randomiser only switch around items across vanilla predetermined spots (ie swopping object x from corpse A to B) or does it add its own placements also (ie added custom spot C nearby the corpse B)? I'm assuming new placement points were added, right?

Yes, but adding new locations is a bit of a tedious process (help is appreciated) because it involves creating markers. Currently only Medsci1 and a few other places have extra item locations. For everything else, it simply swaps vanilla placements (any previous location that had an item can now have a different one, items are evenly spread amongst corpses, containers etc. There are a few exceptions though).

Best I can say is that nothing felt to me out of place, which would be a testament to you having done a good job on the overall - since its coming from someone hardly remembering placements of items from vanilla, beyond few key spots of med-sci and the like.

Awesome, thanks

The things that will break and work horribly are the really big items - like weapons. I'm very curious as to whether any weapons are clipping through walls, etc.

If one point comes to my mind that may be worth investigating, where I felt concentration of things was high in one spot, was a little office room of the chemical storage in hydroponics, where I recall I felt there were a lot of items between the corpse there and the desk.

Can you describe the area more?

The only time, on the other hand, where I felt noticeable frustration was when I was re-running and sweeping the entirety of hydroponics deck for the hydro D keycard multiple times. It turned out I have missed a single little box in hydro A where the card was. Objectively, it was me having missed something - my own fault. Subjectively, addressing your question, it would have felt more natural to me were the key to be found on a dead body, sunk in the pool or another such location of a nature somewhat more notable than a random little crate stashed away in a distant corner.

Fair. I might look into making keys in some of the larger maps (hydro, rec) be corpse-only, just to make things a little less frustrating overall.

Other than that, all felt good. I'll keep an eye out going forward, with what you said in mind.

Thanks

[673ef745c2a30AT]

The things that will break and work horribly are the really big items - like weapons. I'm very curious as to whether any weapons are clipping through walls, etc.

Didn't find anything clipping at all.

Can you describe the area more?

Not really. There's an office in chemical storeroom in hydroponics, with a desk and a dead body. I remember I thought that I'd found quite a few items there between the two. Did not find it unnatural though.

[673ef745c2d02sarge945]

Didn't find anything clipping at all.

Not really. There's an office in chemical storeroom in hydroponics, with a desk and a dead body. I remember I thought that I'd found quite a few items there between the two. Did not find it unnatural though.

The desk in that room already contains 2 chemicals, which are unchanged. The Randomiser may add additional items to that desk, so you probably found 3 items, which isn't unreasonable.

[673ef745c2e1cAT]

There's a body there too, but yes - as I said, it didn't feel unreasonable to me.

[673ef745c3082sarge945]

There's a body there too

You mean Erin Bloome? No enemies are randomised at all.
[ops.meme_.nba_.jpg expired]
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[673ef745c32e7AT]

sarge945
Booted up hydroponics again to check and... no body there. Could swear there was.

Anyhow, those are not the droids you're looking for. You can go about your business. Move along.

[673ef745c345csarge945]

I have 2 playtesters, one has done a full playthrough, the other is up to Ops.

Once those are done, I will probably want to get this pushed to the Mods subforum so that all the people finishing the SS remake and wanting more System Shock will see it in the list when they come here.

Anyway, in case anyone is wondering, here's what I've been working on...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnU1pa5Pk8w

[673ef745c35f0voodoo47]

not loving that, as the first rumbler encountered should be the one in Athletics.

[673ef745c3855sarge945]

not loving that, as the first rumbler encountered should be the one in Athletics.

I agree. This was just a test for meme value.

I probably won't leave it in.