SS2 Randomiser

[66ee870343a4dsarge945]

@RoSoDude had a mod idea a while back to randomise the skill options that you can buy with cybermodules, which would likely do a lot to change up playstyles in this manner.

I can't remember what the actual idea was, though.

[66ee870343ccdDeu sex]

We naturally came up with this idea together shortly after a stream we did a couple of months back playtesting RSD 2.0, and yeah he seemed very optimistic about it!
But this would be different, in this case you'd had zero control over your character progression at all, in the case of randomized objects but not skills, you would still have control and have to live with your own choices. For example you'd stumble across an exotic suit very early into the game, you could decide to ignore that, or save cyber modules to enjoy it as soon as possible (maybe not the best example but you get the idea). Got a ton of ammo? Maybe putting modules in stats would be more adequate, but that would be a risk maybe for later, etc...
Don't get me wrong though, I think your mod definitely does what it intends to do, I'm just thinking about what a roguelite variant could look like. Even randomized weights (with dedicated mins and maxs of course haha) for the current run could be really fun.

[66ee870343e65Joe]

A patch for Secmod would be amazing...

You mentioned enemies being randomized. What sorts of randomization can one expect on the early decks, for example?

[66ee870344343sarge945]

A patch for Secmod would be amazing...

Maybe in a few months. I'm pretty burned out with SS2 and this project after putting so much time into it already. If anyone wants to take a crack at the DML work for it, I would appreciate it

You mentioned enemies being randomized. What sorts of randomization can one expect on the early decks, for example?

If an enemy type appears on a deck or any previous deck, it's in the pool and any enemy in the map can be replaced. Eventually some low-tier enemies (like blue monkeys and pipe hybrids) stop appearing on higher decks. Areas with eggs aren't randomised so expect to see Midwives and baby spiders as in vanilla.

Enemy positions are currently unchanged, but after looking at the maps, there's not really a lot of benefit to doing this. Changing up the types already alters the required strategies significantly, and there aren't many extra spots where enemies would make sense.

It's pretty lore friendly, you aren't going to see Rumblers on medsci, for instance.

[66ee8703447cbsarge945]

A patch for Secmod would be amazing...

As you wish...

--

There's a new beta out. The most significant feature of this is Secmod support. I don't really play Secmod and only tested this in a somewhat hacky playthrough.

Someone who's more familiar with Secmod should let me know if I screwed something up.

I have purposely left sshodan.mis out because Secmod does it's own thing with enemies and items there. If I think of something, I can randomise that map too.

I have probably missed some new Secmod enemy/egg placements, so the No Swarms addon might not work completely and I'm too lazy to thoroughly test it out - if anyone uses it, let me know how it goes.

Even if you aren't interested in playing Secmod, this new beta fixes some item placements that I missed, so it might be worth using regardless.

There is currently one bug I cannot figure out. When playing Secmod, random effects (pyrokenesis balls, etc) will appear at 0,0,0 for some reason. This is a purely visual issue and is only noticeable on medsci1. Everything should still be perfectly playable. @ThiefsieFool I'm hoping you can help me figure out why this is happening. My theory is that it's related to the enemy randomisation. (This bug and a whole lot of others are fixed in 1.2 Beta 2, see next post)

1.2 Beta:
- Added Secmod support. Support is currently in beta.
  - Known issue: Various objects appear at 0,0,0 on some maps. This is purely visual and mostly only an issue in medsci1
- Fixed a few locations that I missed on various maps
- Randomised the ops4 armoury. It only randomises amongst itself, so this is not a significant gameplay change.
- Fixed missing the captains quarters in command2, now that whole area is randomised properly
- The hackable vault behind the athletics lobby desk in rec1 is now randomised.

[66ee8703449d0sarge945]

Massive bug fix, including the visible floating particle bug. Everyone using 1.2 Beta please use 1.2 Beta 2 instead, as 1.2B has some very serious bugs with Secmod, including one that may completely break the UI permanently.

1.2 Beta 2:
- Moved Batteries from 2 enemies in Rick1 into containers, allowing them to randomise properly when the enemies are replaced. (actually fixed in 1.2 Beta) [Thanks @Deu sex]
- Fixed SecMod issue with particles (such as blue monkey cryokenesis balls) appearing at the origin in some maps (was visible on medsci1 and rick1)
- Fixed issue where FakeNanites and other important items could be randomised, breaking the UI
- Added some missed item locations from Secmod
- Fixed some Secmod items not being randomised correctly (such as Empty Hypos)

EDIT: 1.2 Beta 3 now available here

[66ee870344b9cJoe]

Wonderful job, Sarge. I only use Secmod 3 so before I do anything I want to know for sure which one to download.

BTW, a tiny niggle here:

"Trash - In Vanilla, garbage cans can hold all sorts of items - nanites, cybermodules, implants, weapons, etc. This addon forces them to only ever contain junk items such as magazines or chips."

Conceptually, it makes sense, obviously. Finding a pistol and ammo or whatever didn't make a ton of sense, I suppose, but now the trash can as a lootable container is far less enticing. Is it possible to make a table for the trash can that contained all the vanilla items but those items might only show up *extremely* rarely? Reducing them to magazines and chips, while more realistic perhaps, almost eliminates the trash can as a loot source.

[66ee870345304sarge945]

Wonderful job, Sarge. I only use Secmod 3 so before I do anything I want to know for sure which one to download.

The new beta version will work with secmod out of the box without any special extras. Just load up Lite or Full with any add-ons you want, and it'll automatically work with secmod.

For obvious reasons, don't use the rsd addon. It won't break anything if you do, just a few small little things will be different, like the corpse in the radiation storage in medsci2 won't be randomised.

"Trash - In Vanilla, garbage cans can hold all sorts of items - nanites, cybermodules, implants, weapons, etc. This addon forces them to only ever contain junk items such as magazines or chips."

Conceptually, it makes sense, obviously. Finding a pistol and ammo or whatever didn't make a ton of sense, I suppose, but now the trash can as a lootable container is far less enticing. Is it possible to make a table for the trash can that contained all the vanilla items but those items might only show up *extremely* rarely? Reducing them to magazines and chips, while more realistic perhaps, almost eliminates the trash can as a loot source.

The randomiser works by swapping around all the existing items in the map, it doesn't create any new ones.

I could make it so that if a trashcan is rolled as an output, it could do an additional roll to see if it will get junk or not. But I don't really like that approach. The way I see it, trash cans were fine in vanilla and if you want useful trash cans, don't use the add-on. I mainly created it for immersion, more than anything else, and because someone asked me for it.

Keep in mind the booze, chips, etc that you can find in them is far from worthless. A large portion of your healing in the early game will come from stuffing your face.

I might update the next version to make empty hypos count as junk items. This will make trash cans especially worth searching for people with Tinker.

I don't really play secmod so I don't really know the nuance of how the randomiser should work with it. I don't know certain things like what items should count as junk items, etc. Maybe you can help out once you've had a chance to play it. I've done a secmod playthrough with the randomiser, but I'm far from a secmod expert.

Maybe someone who swears by secmod can help me out.

[66ee87034541cJoe]

Oh, I didn't even see that the trash can change was contained in its own separate file. My fault.

I'll be sure to let you know of any issues when I decide to start a new run with your mod + Secmod.

[66ee8703454f7Joe]

Should this be above or below Secmod?

[66ee8703456c8voodoo47]

considering Secmod is a gamesys/map mod that should always occupy the very lowest slot, I'd say it would be very safe to say above.

[66ee8703457c0Joe]

Yeah, fair enough.

[66ee8703458d7Joe]

Gonna do a bit of double posting...

So, I installed the latest version and while I'm in the very beginning, containers don't really seem randomized. I am getting the same loot I remembered before. Is that normal?

[66ee8703459ebvoodoo47]

are you using the beta?

[66ee870345b0cJoe]

I sure is. Using the Full version and installed with Blue's manager. The folder for the 1.2B2 beta is in my DMM folder.

[66ee870345c95Joe]

Alright so false alarm, I guess? I started a new game to test and a few containers were definitely different so I guess it's working.

It was just weird, I've been using Secmod since release and got so used to the containers' fixed loot that I could tell you about what corpses or desks contained what most of the time, and so seeing those same items in the beginning with the Randomizer mod active was a bit strange.

EDIT: Actually, though, doesn't Secmod have its own mini randomization going on? I'm not really sure how to tell if this mod is working correctly if that's the case.

[66ee870345ddcsarge945]

Secmod occasionally has the loot property set on some corpses/containers which can add a random item to them (usually nanites). It's not used super often past medsci1. It shouldn't interfere but is also not technically supported.

It's possible something broke. If you have your SS2.log from that session where you think it broke I'd like to see it.

[66ee870346118Joe]

sarge945I'm not sure it broke... in fact, I'm pretty sure it *is* working -- I've seen too much different loot now, and perhaps I'm misunderstanding what your mod does to an extent but I just figured every container would be changed. I've seen a mixture of loot I'm familiar with finding in certain spots and loot that I'm not used to.

In other words, it seems like a mixture of both old and new. I don't know if that's intended but I'd sure like to know. I attached the Shock2.log that was in my main folder, let me know if that's not what you needed.
[Shock2.log expired]

[66ee87034629asarge945]

According to that log either it's not running at all, or you didn't enter any new areas during that session.

Each randomiser should log a message with it's seed when you start a new map.

Next time you change to a new map, send your shock2.log again. Do it before restarting the game or it will get cleared. If you see "randomiser started" type messages you know it's all working.

Is bmm giving you an error of any kind?

[66ee87034658bJoe]

sarge945I had enough time to do a quick test; last night, I was in the beginning of Engineering, so I'm pretty sure I changed maps during that session. To be sure, I went from Engineering through the ladder transition back to Medical and saved then quit. Attached the new log that should be affected by the level transition. BMM is not giving any errors.
[Shock2.log expired]

[66ee8703466e1Joe]

Wait wtf? There's a Shock2.log AND an SS2.log?

Well, here's the SS2.log you mentioned earlier.

EDIT: Interesting... SS2.log does not show the Randomizer but Shock2.log does... 
[ss2.log expired]

[66ee8703467d1voodoo47]

you may be running 2 executables there, botched install?

[66ee8703468cfJoe]

2 executables? How so?

I don't see how it could be a botched install. I'm using a backup from the last good configuration I had. I guess anything is possible, though.

[66ee8703469f7voodoo47]

well check it for executables? there may be a ss2.exe, and also a shock2.exe, the latter probably very outdated.

yeah, people copying an old install around using the "it worked fine before" logic is one of the top reasons of issues happening (though letting the tool crunch through such an install should eliminate this in 99% of cases).