SS2 Randomiser

[67433fa156b01Joe]

There is indeed an ss2.exe and a shock2.exe. Is that bad?

The reason I am using a backup is actually because I ran the SS2Tool on my previous install that kinda screwed things up. The HUD after running the tool disappeared and was very low-res so I deleted that install and copied the one from my last good backup. Other than the Randomizer potentially not working, it runs exactly how I remember it. I haven't played SS2 since 2021 so some things escape my memory.

I'm guessing the SS2Tool not being run in years could have something to do with the issues I've posted about...

[67433fa156cfcvoodoo47]

yes, having two executables and trying to load modern mods using an install that has not been updated in multiple years is bad.

I don't see how the tool could break your install* (as in the perfect mode, it literally reloads everything clean, creating a clone install of the master build from the server), but either way, you need to sort your install out - ideally, just get a new base from GOG or steam, patch it with the tool (perfect mode to be sure), and load your mods there.


*if you can replicate, share the details, a tool issue is extremely unlikely, but no piece of software is perfect.

[67433fa156e10Joe]

I don't know either, obviously. All I know is that my HUD afterwards was busted. Anyway, I took your advice and installed the Steam version with the latest SS2Tool and will attempt to get the mod situation sorted. Wondering if the Randomizer was going bonkers because my install was out of date.

[67433fa156f24Joe]

Hmm... well, my HUD is gigantic again after using the SS2Tool. Not sure what settings I had but I assume it's something within cam_ext.cfg but I am unsure what to change to get my HUD to be tiny and crisp. Plus my FOV settings don't seem to work when changing in cam_ext.cfg.

[67433fa157024voodoo47]

aha. well, busted and upscaled are not the same thing. if you don't want any hud scaling, then go cam_ext.cfg, and comment out d3d_disp_scaled_2d_overlay 64 (place a ; at the beginning of the line).

fov settings are also set in cam_ext.cfg, so as long as you set them properly..

[67433fa157168Joe]

Ah, you save the day yet again. Fixed. The FOV had the semicolon that I missed.

Thank you again, Voodoo.

BTW, do you know if there's a way to get quicksave and quickload to F5 and F9? Every time I try to bind it, it doesn't commit.

[67433fa157291voodoo47]

those keys are reserved - you can force this by editing the bnd files directly, but doing that would be strongly discouraged. just use ALT+S and ALT+L like everybody else.

[67433fa1573d8Joe]

Discouraged why and reserved for what? BTW, attached is my log -- you can see at the bottom that the Randomizer is active. It appears a new install was needed, so thank you for the suggestion.
[SS2.log expired]

[67433fa1574cevoodoo47]

no problem. the F keys are reserved for psi disciplines switching.

why the old Secmod?

[67433fa1575baJoe]

Because I have many changes in the shock2.gam that Secmod provides that I don't want to re-do.

[67433fa1576d1voodoo47]

if that version of Secmod still uses shock2.gam, then it technically is not fully compatible with the current SS2 mod/dml ecosystem (as it will consider it vanilla, even if it's anything but). minor issues may/will ensue.

basically, as always, if you are using old stuff, don't expect it to work right.

[67433fa1577ceJoe]

 

Well, that definitely sucks... what kind of minor issues could ensue?  And if I were to download the latest Secmod, what file would I edit to make changes to creatures and whatnot?

[67433fa157924voodoo47]

off the top of my head it probably will break Rick turrets.

ideally, you would load your customized Secmod 3.1999 and export the entire gamesys as dml, then do the same with standard 3.1999 gamesys, do a diff using windiff or similar, and then export your changes into a dml that you could then use with any gamesys you like.

yes, doing hard changes to some other mod is going to bite you in the long run (as once that mod gets updated, you will either have to reapply your changes, or continue using the outdated version, and both those options are bad). that's why I always say, you wanna do a minimod? go check how dmls are made.

[67433fa157a27Joe]

I see... I had a look at the latest Secmod and it uses a shocksec.gam. My tweaks are (mostly) nothing I couldn't simply replicate, so I don't suppose the old process of load map > make changes > save as shock2.gam (this case, shocksec.gam) would still work?

[67433fa157b38voodoo47]

if you are asking whether you could take your customized Secmod3.1999, change its gamesys name to shocksec.gam, and then edit all the maps to use that, then yes, that would fix the incompatibility issue. but this is just pushing the issue away, not actually solving it.

maybe you would want to have it fixed properly instead? especially if the changes aren't extensive.

[67433fa157f06sarge945]

The randomiser dmls differentiate between vanilla and secmod using the secmod qvar, which I believe was added semi recently. You can't just use an old version if you want everything to work properly.

Also, why not just make your changes in dml? That way you don't have to have your own special version of Secmod, and depending on the changes they might even work for vanilla/scp too

[67433fa158011Joe]

I don't know how to make the changes in dml. I suppose I must learn how to, somehow

[67433fa158110voodoo47]

all the more reason to do this properly.

[67433fa158465sarge945]

Discouraged why and reserved for what? BTW, attached is my log -- you can see at the bottom that the Randomizer is active. It appears a new install was needed, so thank you for the suggestion.

Looking at this log again, it seems the Cryo randomiser only has 3 inputs, which is definitely wrong (every corpse, container and loose item available before you enter through the keycard door into Science should count as an input for that randomiser), so something is definitely very borked. I don't know if it's the mod, I did change quite a lot since the last major version, but it shouldn't have so few inputs and I tested it pretty thoroughly. I guess we will find out once you fix your issues. It's weird though, even outdated maps should still have mostly the same object IDs, so my DML should work and everything should be fine, and no DML or squirrel errors were reported. Something weird is going on...

[67433fa1585ccJoe]

This is my latest log after all issues have been solved. I was ready to dive in and officially start later today but if you say something is borked, well... 

I can tell you that things are absolutely randomized now (for the most part, from what I've seen, will report more later in the evening) as opposed to when I posted previously wondering about the container loot. But you say something is wrong so... wtf.
[SS2.log expired]

[67433fa1588c8Joe]

sarge945I just re-read this post and saw this: "every corpse, container and loose item available before you enter through the keycard door into Science should count as an input for that randomiser"

I don't think I got to Science when I made that post. AFAIR, it was a test save. Perhaps that's the reason? I will test later.

[67433fa158b2cJoe]

So I've been playing for a bit and the randomization is very apparent, but when I got to Med, I exited and checked the log and was greeted by a ton of entries talking about failing to load many script modules and the entries that belong to Sarge's mod don't seem to be all that different from before.

EDIT: Regarding script modules -- Google brought me to voodoo's post that says the following:

"mod order already is in the log. anyway, it confirms that squirrel.osm fails to load - check the OSM folder, is the file actually there? if it is, try rightclicking it, open properties and see whether it's getting blocked by security, something like what you can see on the screen capture here (maybe explore the logs of your antivirus, it might be blocking the file as well). the file should be about 2.6MB (if it's smaller, it might be corrupted) - attaching for convenience.

one more idea - the game is on the L drive, try moving/copying it to the C drive (this will work, the build is portable), and see whether that makes it work (L is a bit further down the road than most apps expect).
[squirrel.osm expired]"

I have this particular SS2 install on the W drive, so I will see about moving it. Will report back.

EDIT 2: Well, that didn't work. Made things worse, actually. Moving it to C: puts it in Program Files and now the Randomizer doesn't even show up in the log and the modules still failed to load (unless it only loads once per map in which case fair enough, but I tried transitioning between the different Med/Sci levels and the Randomizer isn't showing in the log).

EDIT 3: Went to Engineering to test and it shows up in the log so I guess it still works, but am concerned about the failing script modules.
[SS2.log expired]

[67433fa1591advoodoo47]

not a problem, unless the game is failing to load allobjs, NVscript, or squirrel. the rest is deprecated/nonexisting script modules.

[67433fa1595a6Joe]

That's a relief. Still, that leaves the issue of the mod potentially not working properly... I have noticed a small chunk of containers being empty, I wonder if that is related to Sarge saying things are borked...