SS2 Randomiser

[673f94408d56bJoe]

Hey, as long as they actually shoot me again, it's cool with me. Well done!

Will report any other issues. Otherwise, so far so good. In the past, with Secmod, I knew certain containers wouldn't have anything no matter what. Now, I actually check them all. It's good stuff.

[673f94408d8ecJoe]

I finished my run with Secmod and Randomizer and it was very enjoyable.

I was worried there would be some issues with key items at first, and there were times such as in Hydro where finding the vials of Toxin-A were a bit hairy, but no true issues were found. I mentioned this earlier but after using Secmod for so long, I could identify what certain containers would have, and it was a pleasant change of pace to actually search containers that previously would have contained nothing and then actually find something new.

I'm not sure if this part was touched by your mod (I think it just moves things around, right?) but I felt lower on resources than normal, which was nice. I don't know if that was the latest Secmod being rebalanced RE: loot tables or not, but as an example, I was swimming in AP rounds whereas I was struggling with standard rounds which is the inverse of how things usually are. Keep in mind that I am a very thorough explorer and I can say I had a little bit  more than "enough" supplies to keep going, although I rarely bought Replicator items, which was disappointing. Still did, but not as much as I would have hoped I'd have needed to.

That last point brings me to some suggestions. Ideally, things would be a bit more random... this might be a hot take, but I'd really like the Randomizer to err on the side of giving you very few supplies so that playthroughs can be made or broken by the Randomizer. The description of this mod says that only existing items are moved, none are added. IMO, it should go a bit further than that -- I want to start sweating when I realize that my last playthrough at a similar point, I had X amount of ammunition and I currently don't.

Second point: some of the enemy spawns could be manipulated by saving before a level transition and loading if the subsequent spawns were not ideal. I am, of course, guilty of doing this. I suspect that this is unavoidable, but I know nothing. Furthermore, some parts were easier than with vanilla Secmod such as certain later areas normally being patrolled by Assault bots rather than the normal Rumbler spawns. Assault bots can be more easily cheesed with their fusion cannon than Rumblers can and so there were times when I was disappointed with the spawns because those hard moments that were guaranteed in Secmod are now up to chance, like the elevator up to the Bridge on Command -- when it was just Secmod, it was always staffed with an Assault and Security bot, and this time, it had a Cyborg Assassin and an Assault bot. I mean, it's fine, and I realize the potential for the balance pendulum swings both ways, but I just figured I'd mention it. I like that the enemies are randomized, though, so don't get me wrong. I'd rather have it than not.

Overall, great mod. Injected some much-needed variation for me and it will stay in my load order forever.

[673f94408e9e4sarge945]

On your points:

I've noticed during RoSoDudes scuffed randomiser streams that he was also a bit lower on resources compared to usual.

I chalked this up to missing various items due to either using optimized routes or just not looking in new places.

For instance, I noticed RoSoDude would skip looking in a few rooms in hydro which usually contain nothing, potentially missing items.

While there's no actual change in item numbers, this factor alone reduces the "real" number of items a player will get.

Think back to your first playthrough. I'm sure you missed tons of items.

With the randomiser it's largely supposed to be the same way, you'll miss stuff that you just don't notice because the item layout is essentially fresh again.

As for item removal, I could probably implement this. It's not really part of the scope of the mod, but multiple people have asked for it now, and you have to give the masses what they want.

Also, are you sure the elevator used to have assault droids? The randomiser is set up so that bots can only be replaced by each other or rumblers. This means that each bot must be either a bot or a rumbler. If one of them got replaced with an assassin then something is very off.

Also you shouldn't be getting significantly lower tier enemies. Usually a deck can only randomise between what that deck already contained, plus a low chance for some previous enemies, but it's very low. So difficulty wise, you shouldn't be having experiences that are significantly easier or harder than stock secmod. Was that the case? What sort of rerolls did you do?

[673f94408eaf6sarge945]

okay, I just checked.

Secmod 3 places a Cyborg Assassin and an Assault Bot at the top of the command2 elevator

[673f94408ecf8Joe]

Interesting... I swear my previous version of Secmod had an Assault and Security bot at the top. TF must have changed it, then?

RE: resources -- Yeah, fair enough. Personally, I'd *really* like a version that was brutal with regards to item placement. On a somewhat unrelated tangent, though, I did find a Recycler on a Maintenance bot. Not sure if that's a Secmod change or added by your mod but I had a Recycler before you typically get one on Ops (with Secmod, anyway). Things like that, finding certain rare items just because you get lucky, is very appealing to me. I am not opposed to you adding more potential item spawns with your mod, as long as they are rare. Not in the scope of your mod, I know, but it might spice things up even more.

RE: enemies -- I remember the level on Ops that has the armory I cheesed several times by loading. There were instances where there were like 2 or 3 Rumblers and I said fuck that even though I hacked the turrets, so I'd reload and then get some Midwives and Cyborg Assassins. I remember that very clearly, and it wasn't even that one instance, either.

BTW I wanted to say that I also learned that the Slug Turret is the undisputed GOAT of turrets with the latest Secmod. The others are absolute trash. Not necessarily a Randomizer thing although your mod does replace turret spawns which was both cool and irritating because I'd actually get upset at a Laser Turret spawn, reason being that they are so ineffective against the Annelids. Laser Turrets and Blast Turrets need a buff. This is not a knock at your mod, of course, just wanted to mention it while I'm here.

[673f94408ee28sarge945]

Rumblers aren't allowed to spawn on ops, they aren't in the enemy pool until command, so I think secmod is doing it's own thing

@ThiefsieFool do you add rumblers to ops at all? Specifically ops4?

[673f94408ef88voodoo47]

ops4 will spawn rumblers when the give Shodan core control quest is active.

[673f94408f238ThiefsieFool]

That would explain things, my memory tells me I didn't add any rumblers, but you'd have to check to be absolutely sure.

Isn't there a tool to diff two mission files in these technologically advanced days? Then you would know if ecologies were modified pretty damn fast.

[673f9440902d7voodoo47]

the dml takes care of that, so no, not really.

[673f9440903cbJoe]

Ah, that's right... it must have been after you go back to Ops for SHODAN.

[673f944090f03sarge945]

I have just released Version 1.2. Secmod support is now official!

I actually broke assassins in the previous beta, whoops!

I briefly tested this with SCP b5 and it seems to work. The only issues should be new items and items/containers with chainged ids, which I haven't found any of as of yet.

@voodoo47 could you please transfer the download counts from the 1.1 version as well as the 1.2 Beta Releases so I can remove the 1.1 files?

[673f944091040voodoo47]

done. no previous version of lite, it seems.

[673f94409113bsarge945]

I may have accidentally deleted it, since I had to reupload 1.2 due to an issue.

Oh well. It had about half the downloads of full if I recall.

[673f944091263sarge945]

Update: I have given this a test with SCP b5 and it seems to work perfectly fine.

The only possible issues are if some object IDs have changed, but so far I haven't found any that are significant.

If anyone is playing this with b5, let me know if you find anything that isn't randomised that you believe should be.

[673f94409143dtiphares4]

Playing SS2 from the beginning again as SCP Beta 5 version with Randomizer enabled: The very first hybrid on med/sci was a shotgun-hybrid. Is this intentional?  I made picture of another one    :l

[673f944092e87sarge945]

Yes.

• Enemies are randomised to similar ones, new strategies may be required! Care has been made to make sure the lore is followed.

[673f9440930e7tiphares4]

:l  But would be greater if the player would encounter shotgun-hybrids for first time in med / sci 2 even with randomizer on - in compliance to ascending difficulty curve. Its a bit over the top encountering  hybrids with shotgun when just having a wrench.... Especially for new players.

Anyways, otherwise Randomiser is extremely great so far, all the other items & enemies are very greatly distributed - it's a nice change to encounter psi-monkeys in those coolant tubes for a change for instance or one of those protocol droids in engineering auxiliary storages..  Or finding gamepigs™ & cartridges etc. in places never seen before - it implies new ways how things did happen via enviromental storytelling on each run.  Really adds up to the experience.

Placement of items is extremely great, really really brings fresh wind into the gameplay - now ss2 really feels like a rougelike - immense replay value now.
Really loved the new finding places of Toxin-A for example


BUT now here is the problem: I have found only 3 toxin-vials instead of the usual vanilla-5.


I've searched every nook&cranny of all hydro subdecks 2 times to be sure...    :/

Also that hybrid (Turnbull?) at the end of Hydroponics A when trying to get back into the airlock didn't carry any vial. Wasn't she having one in inventory in vanilla? i don't remember. Anyways, there isn't enough toxin now, just for info.


have to cast via console now - to finally be able to reach deck 4 for the first time with that rosedude's rapier assassin mod activated..............


[dump040.png expired]

[673f944095f4asarge945]

:l  But would be greater if the player would encounter shotgun-hybrids for first time in med / sci 2 even with randomizer on - in compliance to ascending difficulty curve. Its a bit over the top encountering  hybrids with shotgun when just having a wrench.... Especially for new players.

You can already experience Shotgun Hybrids in the original game with just the wrench, as they can naturally respawn from the ecology in that level. It's rare but it does happen.

I could reduce the chance of shotgun hybrids in that map.

BUT now here is the problem: I have found only 3 toxin-vials instead of the usual vanilla-5.


I've searched every nook&cranny of all hydro subdecks 2 times to be sure...   

Please send your save. This shouldn't be happening.

Also that hybrid (Turnbull?) at the end of Hydroponics A when trying to get back into the airlock didn't carry any vial. Wasn't she having one in inventory in vanilla? i don't remember. Anyways, there isn't enough toxin now, just for info.

No, she only carries a log.

[673f944096095tiphares4]

:l    i've uploaded the save states, 'hydro2.mis' should be the one:


zip:  https://ufile.io/125npirk

[673f94409617csarge945]

It would be much easier if you zipped them

[673f94409625esarge945]

Great, I go to finally check this out and ufile is down....

[673f9440963bdsarge945]

I have found the issue

The Toxin A vial is supposed to be here, but for some reason it seems to have fallen through the floor for you and was at some ridiculous Z coordinate (-12537625375367 or something).

You can fix this in your savegame using

Code: [Select]

summon_obj Anti-Annelid Toxin
Honestly, I don't know how this was even possible. Objects are supposed to "bump" themselves into position, and for some reason this one seems to have failed.

I will test this further and maybe adjust some things.




[ss2_vial.PNG expired]

[673f9440964cctiphares4]

Nice   :)        So i wasn't imagining things...


Btw.: Regarding those shotgun-hybrids - it was stupid suggestion by me - i totally forgot about that chasing scene in medsci 1. Makes total sense to have them, but lower chance would be nice nonetheless..    :l

[673f9440965b6sarge945]

It's very easy to lower the chances in the dml. I might make you a custom version