Ammo vending machines, Bioshock and stuff

[6745f91756dfaRocketMan]

I'd not call Doom 3 a "Doom game". I'd call it more System Shock inspired with it's audio logs and GUI system. Comparing Doom 3 to Doom's 1 & 2 is a night and day difference. Yes it has "Doom" in it's title, but it is a COMPLETELY different style of game.

The difficulty is, I'm not sure what to call it since, it's definitely not System Shock (it wasn't supposed to be), so I call it a "doom game".  But I see your point that it's not a doom game either. 

So I guess this gray area that it sits in may end up disappointing a lot of people.  On the other hand, if you don't hold any prejudice against it and just let it fall wherever it pleases on the map, it's a good game, whatever it is.  I was just pointing out the similarities with SS.  And as a doom player myself I wasn't exactly disappointed with what we got.  If doom isn't going to be faithful to doom, I'm at least glad it's this instead. 

[6745f91757037icemann]

Completely agree with you on that. Despite it's lack of similarity with past entries I really enjoyed it. I love the main menu music. The expansion was pretty good as well.

I didn't mind the flashlight stuff either, as I knew of the game mechanic going in.

[6745f9175724bXkilljoy98]

I own Doom 3, but still hadn't really played it

[6745f91757330RocketMan]

Well I guess your weekend is booked then.  Marathon that shit!

[6745f9175747bXkilljoy98]

Yeah I do wanna get around to playing it

Also on another note, does anyone here have access to the backer beta, whenever it would come out?

IK it is only for people who paid 50 or more on the kickstarter (which I did not do back then as I didn't know if it would be backed or even finished), tho imo given how long it has been it should be open to all backers.

Tho if there is anyone here that does have it, if you could take some screenshots or videos for the wiki (of stuff like levels, enemies, weapons, etc), I would appreciate it.

Assuming there isn't any sort of NDA or anything.

[6745f917576b7JDoran]

I don't know why the BFG version of Doom 3 was so different from the original release, though I suspect that some of it was due to id Software wanting it to be easier to play/complete - not that it was a difficult game to being with, of course. But that doesn't explain some of the other changes, such as the mandatory checkpoint saves, which can take place actually mid fire-fight. Why not set the check-points for events such as you entering a new area or going through a certain door AND only when no enemies were within sight? And WHY were the cutscenes now unskippable?

And I imagine the more hardcore Doom 3 fans would hate the way the weapons now have higher ammunition carry limits, and that ammunition is very noticeably more common and easily collectable, thereby removing the (admittedly not very prominent) feelings of survival horror in the game.

There were other steps backward, but I can't recall them off hand. Oh, I remember that the BFG edition was incompatible with some fan-made mods, though I can't remember to what extent. For a game with a fairly vibrant modding scene (IIRC) that wouldn't have gone down well.

[6745f91757ae8sarge945]

JDoran
It was mainly just a quickly-rushed product hastily shit-out to cash in on a particular generation of consoles.

[6745f91757c32Xkilljoy98]

I don't wanna resurrect an old topic but in regards to the replicators and ammo, I would like to mention that upon checking there are some that seem to have ammo

https://shodan.fandom.com/wiki/Replicator

And there is no way to prove if they've been hacked before

[6745f91757db0voodoo47]

as already mentioned, replicators getting hacked on regular basis is a thing even before Goggles joins the fun (the first ghost).

[6745f91757fdfXkilljoy98]

voodoo47Yeah but it isn't said anywhere that every single replicator with ammo was previously hacked

Best just to move on, but wanted to mention that

[6745f917580e5voodoo47]

well, not every single replicator sells ammo by default.

the point was that replicators on a spaceship suddenly selling ammo when there's fighting going on is believable. vending machines, not so much.

[6745f9175834aXkilljoy98]

well, not every single replicator sells ammo by default.

the point was that replicators on a spaceship suddenly selling ammo when there's fighting going on is believable. vending machines, not so much.

Yeah I know not all do, but some do

Well replicators are vending machines, so I don't mind either if it makes sense or is just there for gameplay, similar to how in Bioshock, the ammo and weapons started to be sold/sold more when the civil war started

For SS2, I just don't know if every single one with ammo was hacked, more-so some were hacked and maybe they put ammo in the others due to violence that started to happen, IDK

Tho I understand why it would upset people when it is there with no lore explanation, but for me I just sorta put it down to gameplay reasons

[6745f91758492voodoo47]

that's the thing, you don't put anything into a replicator - you just change a few bytes of code and the replicator makes the new item appear out of thin air. unlike vending machines, which require to actually get loaded with the items beforehand.

"hey, is that tech? we are kinda fighting mutants here, can you get over here whenever it's convenient, swap the cola tray on the vending machine and fill it with pistol ammo? credits are not a problem."

I can see this happening in Rapture, which is filled with unhinged capitalists. Citadel, not so much.

[6745f9175860aNameless Voice]

I should presumably have access to the backer beta when it comes out.

[6745f9175894fZylonBane]

Yeah I know not all do, but some do

Because. They've. Been. Hacked.

Are we really going to have to explain ludonarrative dissonance to you?

[6745f91758b4aXkilljoy98]

ZylonBaneDo you have proof that all of them with ammo have been hacked?

Just admit that it is an assumption

I mean it might be a likely reason, but unless there is direct evidence saying or implying so then it is only an assumption

[6745f91758cfcvoodoo47]

the second ghost literally says this right into your face. you need a written document with Korenchkin's signature or something?

here's a link to a LP by a girl with a furry avatar (cow?), that proof enough? https://youtu.be/NCYnbqLtams?t=1992

[6745f91758efeXkilljoy98]

voodoo47"Someone has hacked the replicator again", doesn't mean all of them

Yes, we know some had been hacked, but it that means all of them, we don't know for sure

[6745f9175900bvoodoo47]

yes. but what does that have to do with anything? nobody said all of them have been hacked. why would ALL replicators have to be hacked?

a rhetorical question, no need to answer that (please).

[6745f917591d3Xkilljoy98]

voodoo47I'm just saying that it is possible that some of them had ammo to start with, we don't know

[6745f917592f2voodoo47]

possible yes, probable no. but fair enough, we do not know that for sure.

anyway, the point was;
- reps selling ammo on VB, sure
- vending machines selling ammo in Rapture, ok why not
- vending machines selling ammo on Citadel, no, not really

howgh.

[6745f91759547RocketMan]

There are many things in the universe that are "possible" however it's counterproductive to discuss them all due to their unremarkable nature.  It is far more productive to discuss things in terms of their probability. 

It's possible that a man is living on the far side of the moon.  The means exist for it to be true.  But it is so improbable that it becomes completely arbitrary to even mention it.  The point is, it pisses people off to be reminded of the possibility of some insignificant thing when there are probabilities that supersede it.  It's usually a tactic people use to salvage a lost argument so they don't have to be 100% wrong.   

In this case you're saying it's possible that some replicators had ammo.  Yes, it is possible.  Is it probable?  No.  But if 1 or 2 did, let's say because they were in the security area and served the guards there, what would it matter?  We're saying that replicators were hacked to make them useful for resisting the incursion of the Many and Shodan.  The ghost sequence is as much proof as we'll ever get or could reasonably expect.  How many of them were hacked doesn't matter.  The point is that hacking them to make bullets is plausible because replicators convert energy into matter using software so there's no suspension of disbelief there.  Vending machines are literally stocked by someone and this is just not how the VonBraun works. 

If we were talking about the Rickenbacker, then I'd say that's an entirely different story.  Everybody on that ship has to have weapons training and is authorized to carry firearms and going through bullets presents a serious problem on a regular basis.  The VonBraun however is a scientific vessel and while they do have a limited military presence, they have sufficient room in their armories and security stations to store ammo before they leave.  It would be stupid to have public replicators with bullet recipes in them where any scientist could get their hands on them.  They have bad days at work you know.

[6745f91759c4fXkilljoy98]

possible yes, probable no. but fair enough, we do not know that for sure.

anyway, the point was;
- reps selling ammo on VB, sure
- vending machines selling ammo in Rapture, ok why not
- vending machines selling ammo on Citadel, no, not really

howgh.

I agree that citadel makes the least sense, according to what NDS said, it is for security, tho why does security need to buy their own ammo?, is TriOp that greedy or doesn't want them to be able to do their job?

Compared to replicators which can be programmed and hacked to make lots of stuff (some of which might have been added either for security or when things got bad), and ammo/weapons being sold during a civil war by greedy objectivists with questionable morals

(Also for some reason this pic is blurry and they didn't bother to upload a higher res one)

There are many things in the universe that are "possible" however it's counterproductive to discuss them all due to their unremarkable nature.  It is far more productive to discuss things in terms of their probability. 

It's possible that a man is living on the far side of the moon.  The means exist for it to be true.  But it is so improbable that it becomes completely arbitrary to even mention it.  The point is, it pisses people off to be reminded of the possibility of some insignificant thing when there are probabilities that supersede it.  It's usually a tactic people use to salvage a lost argument so they don't have to be 100% wrong.   

In this case you're saying it's possible that some replicators had ammo.  Yes, it is possible.  Is it probable?  No.  But if 1 or 2 did, let's say because they were in the security area and served the guards there, what would it matter?  We're saying that replicators were hacked to make them useful for resisting the incursion of the Many and Shodan.  The ghost sequence is as much proof as we'll ever get or could reasonably expect.  How many of them were hacked doesn't matter.  The point is that hacking them to make bullets is plausible because replicators convert energy into matter using software so there's no suspension of disbelief there.  Vending machines are literally stocked by someone and this is just not how the Von Braun works.

That is fair, I just think that we shouldn't say that all Replicators with ammo are for sure hacked already without knowing for sure

[6745f91759f12ZylonBane]

Do you have proof that all of them have been hacked?

Nobody said ALL of the replicators have been hacked. FFS, are you being deliberately obtuse, or are you honestly this bad at understanding things?