Ammo vending machines, Bioshock and stuff

[6745dcdd82438Xkilljoy98]

ZylonBaneI meant all of them with ammo, you are ignoring what I meant
I am trying to prove a point, someone said that all the replicators with ammo had been hacked, when we don't know for sure

Anyway this topic is supposed to be about the remake, not Doom 3, Replicators, or Vending Machines

[6745dcdd8271cRocketMan]

And yet it's so damned tempting to talk about other stuff!

[6745dcdd82854Xkilljoy98]

I have been working on documenting the changes, I think I got everything, at least everything that I could find, still need to check and see when some things were added tho

https://shodan.fandom.com/wiki/Version_History_(System_Shock_(Remake))

[6745dcdd829d6Nameless Voice]

It also makes sense for replicators to charge security staff for extra ammunition, since nanite costs aren't so much a price being charged as they are the raw materials that the replicator uses.  It makes more sense to have multi-purpose nanites on board, since they can be converted into whatever is needed, rather than needing to have large storage bays full of bullets on the off chance that they'd need them.

[6745dcdd82c01Xkilljoy98]

Nameless VoiceI always assumed nanites were digital money rather than materials, tho tbh IDK what they really are

[6745dcdd82eb0RocketMan]

It also makes sense for replicators to charge security staff for extra ammunition, since nanite costs aren't so much a price being charged as they are the raw materials that the replicator uses.  It makes more sense to have multi-purpose nanites on board, since they can be converted into whatever is needed, rather than needing to have large storage bays full of bullets on the off chance that they'd need them.

I forgot about nanites.  I guess these replicators aren't the star trek variety but instead work on the premise of rearranging matter using the nanites to follow a set of instructions on how to assemble the final goods.

[6745dcdd83242Nameless Voice]

Xkilljoy98
Not enough people read the object descriptions, there's a wealth of lore in those.

Efficient Nanite based technology was introduced after a series of radical experiments at the University of Masala in 2078.  Nanites are sub-atomic machines that are capable of being programmed to perform a nearly infinite variety of tasks, from forming themselves in a replication grid to form into arbitrary objects, to fighting bacteria and viruses in the human bloodstream.  In other words, nanites (combined with replication tech) created the "every material".  The UNN Currency Redefinition Act of 2082 opened up the door for moving financial transactions to a strict Nanite basis.

[6745dcdd83584Chandlermaki]

I own Doom 3, but still hadn't really played it

I’ve always enjoyed it a lot despite its reputation. Easily one of the most atmospheric games I’ve ever played to this day. Definitely worth a shot.

[6745dcdd83979sarge945]

If they REALLY wanted to make actual, physical vending machines for ammo with actual, proper currency, what they SHOULD have done was had "authorised ammo licenses" (similar to prey) with some lore behind them about how the ammo vending machines are actually a security measure to stop people stealing ammo, where all ammo that is dispenced is logged and associated with a limited license, which is supposed to be given by HQ for a given purpose.

In the medical field, a PIXUS works similarly.

A plausible situation would be something like:

Security Guy: I need some ammo to deal with <some threat on the station>
Security Chief: Okay, here's an authorisation to dispense 3 clips.

Then the gameplay would involve acquiring licenses.

It's not exactly "deep lore" and probably has some other implications, so is not a great solution, but it's something. Instead we got gold Mario coins.

[6745dcdd83d03Join2]

Doom 3 was among the first, if not the first, to set the precedence of the now standard extreme graphics & realism over gameplay principle. The level design is significantly reduced in complexity, monster counts divided by 10, it's very visually busy so interactivity was reduced to a minimum (e.g no more switches everywhere that you have to figure out which does what), and it has a very realistic presentation so the gamey goodness of classic doom was reduced further still - no more elevators everywhere, no switch hunts, arenas no longer built around interesting combat encounters but rather those that make realistic sense, no wall trickery (transparent/non-solid/shoot to open/frob to open), no gamey mazes, no teleportation puzzles. I'm surprised it even has the occasional explosive barrel. Or was that only in the expansion pack to justify the gravity gun? FPS died in the early 2000s, for me. They didn't even try to replace all the missing gameplay with anything but reloading, stamina management & a flashlight.
Fuck Doom 3. I probably won't touch it again even heavily modded. I feel a deep sense of regret when I think of all the time I wasted as a teenager playing garbage 2000s era FPS. If nothing else it served to provide perspective and form standards at least. In hindsight third person shooters win that era no contest believe it or not, up until EPIC's Gears of War came along and put a stop to that anyway.

About the only 2000s FPS I respect as a solid game is RTCW, and even that has its problems and isn't hugely enjoyable to return to. Meanwhile TPS had The Punisher, GUN, Duke Nukem: Zero Hour, The Saboteur, Max Payne (overrated but still better than the hordes of FPS trash), Destroy all Humans 2, Resident Evil 4 and many more titles that actually were fun.

[6745dcdd8416dsarge945]

Join2
you say this as if the endless maze-running and switch-hunting of classic Doom was a good thing.

[6745dcdd843d9Xkilljoy98]

I’ve always enjoyed it a lot despite its reputation. Easily one of the most atmospheric games I’ve ever played to this day. Definitely worth a shot.

From what I hear, I should play the base version before the BFG version

[6745dcdd845fesarge945]

From what I hear, I should play the base version before the BFG version

Just NEVER play the BFG Edition

[6745dcdd847e5JDoran]

Last night, when trying to get to sleep, I remembered the (to me) biggest failure of Doom 3 BFG, the lack of subtitles. I can't believe I forgot  about that, as lack of subtitles is a pretty big bug-bear with me (I'm not deaf, but getting there). In most first person shooters, the lack of subtitles is annoying but not too damaging to the experience, but in Doom 3, some of the codes you need to use for ammo/weapon/etc storage are given only in audio files, sadly. That was bad enough in the original Doom 3, but for a version of Doom 3 that was released nearly a decade later? That was utterly inexplicable and unacceptable.

[6745dcdd84c43RocketMan]

Join2
you say this as if the endless maze-running and switch-hunting of classic Doom was a good thing.

I was thinking the same.  I got used to it quickly because Doom was such a fun game but when I started playing harder wads like Thy Flesh consumed, TNT and Plutonia especially, I started to dislike it.  Doom and all its irks fit the best in my opinion with the first half of Doom 1, Doom 2 for sure and even stuff like Scythe.  One wonders if the game would have been even better without switch-hunting, etc.

[6745dcdd85042Join2]

sarge945
In moderation and with good implementation, navigation and puzzle elements are indeed good in an FPS, yes.

@RocketMan saying you liked it then going on to blaming a particular modder's implementation of it...well that's an unfair argument don't you think? It's all well implemented in Doom. Game's a stone cold classic.

JDoran
Eh, there's only like 4 or 5 lockers that ever require a passcode anyway. I was thinking of listing that as an element of gameplay they replaced OG Doom's with, but it's so goddamn minimalist. And the code is always nearby guaranteed because it's a linear game, so further minimal still. All that's ever inside is some ammo and/or health, so consider your version of Doom 3 to have a bonus harder difficulty modifier, which the game could probably use anyway.

[6745dcdd851d8voodoo47]

the only oldschool fps that comes to mind where they overdid it with keys (and keyhunting) was Blood. up to 6, yeesh. classic Doom was fine, 3 keys max.

some annoying jumping puzzles, but those are now non-issue with source ports and full mouselook.

[6745dcdd85313Join2]

Blood had 6 keys? I recall the standard 3, and also never had any issue with its navi and puzzle elements.

Now Hexen 1 & 2, those are what take it too far. Not a fan at all.

Turok games are generally considered to be mazes from hell/a navigation nightmare, but I'm a fan so therefore I'm masochistic I suppose. But then why hate Hexen and not Turok? The switch hunting is rather straightforward (unlike Hexen) but the maze element is not. Doesn't help that hexen combat is really boring, with only 4 weapons per class, and at least one of which is always garbage.

[6745dcdd853f9voodoo47]

oh yeah right, those weren't great in that regard. especially the first one.

[6745dcdd854e6Join2]

Question for you guys: does any modern FPS (including the indie revival movement) truly bring back classic 90s interconnected, maze-like, grand-scale level design that you can actually get lost in? I know of none.

[6745dcdd8687ckrumpet]

Join2
you say this as if the endless maze-running and switch-hunting of classic Doom was a good thing.

Guess everyone has different tastes but the maze-running is one of my favourite parts of old FPS titles. Part of the fun is committing the level layout to memory. Descent I is my all-time favourite partly for that reason (but then they introduced a guidebot into Descent II and it wasn't the same.)

Curious to see how a younger generation of gamers takes to SSR's level design from the 90's.

[6745dcdd86c82Xkilljoy98]

Well, try not to be too outraged. I have seen every classic game franchise I ever loved absolutely butchered, turned into something beyond grotesque, featuring "gameplay" for the most mediocre of men, and all quality and identity gone. Every IP or concept that continued as a franchise suffered this same fate, generally speaking. And I love a fuckton of games. This game, while definitely far from perfect, actually seems to be turning out a bit better than most. I'm definitely not saying don't demand more from them, but keep expectations grounded in perspective. It could be far worse. They could make this game another Bioshock.

Sorry, I could not resist that one.

Well if they did make it another Bioshock then it would actually be good, but yeah this isn't the first time a series I love has became worse, but I still hoped for more.

I mean IDK if it is turning out better when the soul of ss isn't fully there

At least the dead space remake while having some issues still feels like dead space

[6745dcdd86fbeAutz]

They could make this game another Bioshock.

And by the looks of it, that's what we gonna get. lol

[6745dcdd870ddJoin2]

Nah. Very first requirement for that is increasing cyborg conversion chamber quantities to every few rooms and enabled by default, as well as putting a yellow navigation arrow top-middle of the screen. Then you have your clown game where the entire thing is an act; pretending to be a game.