Sarge's Gameplay Experiments - A collection of Mini Mods

[673f62052aa84sarge945]

Ooh, or how about a hybrid with no head who carries bombs in each hand while running at you screaming?

Wow, that sounds serious!

[673f62052ac14sarge945]

I have uploaded an alternate version of Standard Ammo as Standard which replaces 50% of the special ammo, rather than all of it.

Please keep in mind, replacing 50% of the ammo does NOT guarantee an even distribution, because the replacement is done per stack, not per round. A stack of ammo with 6 bullets in it has the same chance of being replaced as one with 18 bullets.

[673f62052b0d6sarge945]

I have recently been thinking more and more about the Security mechanics and how easy cameras are to bypass by simply destroying them. I know many other mod authors have had similar thoughts and have come to their own conclusions for how to resolve the issue. I myself have shilled Alarming Cameras in the past as I believe it's been the best solution to the problem so far, however I don't particularly like it much either for a few reasons, mostly because I feel like the punishment (setting off the alarm) is too generous a tradeoff for permanently removing a threat, and while alarming cameras has introduced some more interesting interactions into the game in some playthroughs (both my own, and various ones I have watched), it's still rather easy to either hack security (made a bit harder by making security terminals require HACK of 3 in RSD) or freeze/stun it with stasis, and once they have been disabled, you can basically blow up every camera quite easily thereafter for almost no cost. I also feel like these solutions further emphasise Hacking as a skill, and make it even more important, when it's already a very good skill, because outside of investing in heavy weapons or psi, a typical player will need to get hacking to eliminate cameras without setting off alarms.

Since I have been playing (and modding!) Deus Ex again recently, I've come to realise that it's camera system is FAR superior (although hacking is a bit too good there too, I'm noticing a pattern...), and one of the main reasons why is because, outside of hacking, there's no real easy way to bypass cameras without spending resources. You can either blow it up, which is a costly and noisy process, or bypass it with a multitool or EMP/Nanovirus grenade, which drains precious resources.

As an experiment, I have decided to try and replicate some of that gameplay in SS2, to make what I believe is a more interesting trade-off mechanic. Now, destroying a camera can't just be done simply and easily with a wrench. Cameras have a fake "damage threshold" system (done by making them take damage via a special stim) so that you need AP rounds, EMP, disruption grenades, or overcharged laser shots to take them down, and they are much tougher than before. You can't simply destroy them with cheap ammo or for free with a few wrench hits anymore.

This essentially means now there's two "tiers" of bypassing cameras. All of the old methods of bypassing them without destroying them still work - hacking security, disabling cameras with the stasis field generator or the psi power, etc, and their temporary nature affords them a naturally low cost. Meanwhile, bypassing them permanently is a far more valuable prospect, especially for high-traffic areas, but also requires significantly more resource investment. This also naturally devalues hacking slightly (which in my opinion is a good thing, since the skill is already VERY good), because it reinforces it's place as purely a temporary solution to the problem, as you can't destroy cameras with impunity anymore while the security system is hacked. Previously, hacking was usually only done once upon finding the first security terminal on a given deck, and the player would then be able to walk around and shoot all of the cameras with no consequences. Not anymore! Expect to hack terminals multiple times upon returning to areas you've previously been!

I have uploaded an alternate version of Security Overhaul that contains the new tougher cameras, and doesn't contain any of the changes of the other Security Overhaul version, so there won't be any extra spawns when blowing up cameras. I would be very interested if people could test it and give me feedback on how they feel about the idea overall, as well as the specific balance of the numbers (like whether or not you think the cameras are too tough, not tough enough, etc). It's very possible that I may have overtuned things and the cameras may be a little too tough overall. It's also possible that this is a horrible idea and I should abandon it entirely.

Additionally, I have made the cameras rotate slightly faster as a way to potentially make them a little more dangerous to leave alive, as they are generally quite easy to avoid currently. If more of them end up staying alive because of the resource cost to destroy them, this may not be necessary as they may already pose enough of a threat at that point, so it's likely this change will be removed in a future version.

I am very interested to hear people's thoughts on this. While I'm not certain this is the correct way to solve this problem, I feel like I may be on the right track with it. If not, it was only an hour or so of work and was very fun to create, so if it ends up being detrimental to the game overall, then it's no big loss.

[673f62052d44fZylonBane]

...outside of hacking, there's no real easy way to bypass [Deus Ex] cameras without spending resources.

That's why I always max my Rifle skill. Pops cameras in one shot.

[673f62052d58dsarge945]

From the sawed off?

Also, getting maximum points in rifles IS the resource investment.

[673f62052d6f9voodoo47]

shotgun + sabot rounds = problem solved. no need to max out.

[673f62052d835sarge945]

Sabot rounds are relatively rare, and you have to trade off using your limited rounds on bots vs cameras if you don't have another way to deal with bots, so it's pretty fair overall.

Not to mention, AFAIK you can't put a silencer on the shotguns, so it's going to be a noisy affair.

Still, all of this back and forth goes to show how much better Deus Ex's camera mechanics are compared to the mindless camera shooting we have in SS2.

[673f62052f04eZylonBane]

From the sawed off?

Uh, no. From the sniper rifle.

[673f62052f2a0sarge945]

Uh, no. From the sniper rifle.

You're wasting ultra-rare 3006 ammo on cameras?

[673f62052f8e9tiphares4]

I have recently been thinking more and more

Wowwwww, it is good to see that this problem is still getting worked on...  It is indeed one of the last crucial problems / obstacles between perfectionizing ss2 i guess. I tried also thinking more & more about it with my modest & extremely limited brain capacities🦠, but no solution in sight...

I will try out this mod soon..

[673f62052fb99ZylonBane]

You're wasting ultra-rare 3006 ammo on cameras?

It's hardly "ultra-rare". There's more than enough throughout the game to pop the relatively few targets that require it, especially when paired with a sniper pistol for taking out human targets.

I just checked an old save from the end of the final level, and I had 89 rounds of 30.06 ammo.

[673f62052ff32tiphares4]

tiphares4
i haven't tried both security overhaul versions yet, but i'm already trying to make good sugestion as a layman: wouldn't be a combination of both great - without buffing the cameras too much?

Ok, it is mentioned we can tweak damage numbers by ourselves, then
Let's say destroying 1 camera requires:

● 3 or 4 standard bullets / 1 or 2 ap round
● 3 or 4 standard shotgun slugs
● 2 lasgun overcharge
● 2 frag or prox / 1 emp / 1 disruption grenade(s)

etc.

THEN it would be interesting to additionally send to each destroyed camera: at least 1 maintenance droid and / or protocol droids - to simulate that xerxes thinks camera has failed and / or wants to get them repaired.

And also send swarms of stronger enemies as the game progresses to location wherever a camera is destroyed.. send swaths of protocol droids / assassins / multiple maintenance or other droids etc. on later decks.

As opposed to permanently enhance threat level / upping enemy population - because i think this is a too unforgivable punishment - just resulting in tempting players to reload savestate.

Wouldn't this be deterrence enough for all players to mostly avoid destroying cameras whilst keeping it realistic / believable?


i think there is great game-loop potential in this waiting to be unlocked...

[673f6205304fesarge945]

Let's say destroying 1 camera requires:

● 3 or 4 standard bullets / 1 or 2 ap round
● 3 or 4 standard shotgun slugs
● 2 lasgun overcharge
● 2 frag or prox / 1 emp / 1 disruption grenade(s)

etc.

This is pretty much how it already is, except cameras are a bit stronger

THEN it would be interesting to additionally send to each destroyed camera: at least 1 maintenance droid and / or protocol droids - to simulate that xerxes thinks camera has failed and / or wants to get them repaired.

And also send swarms of stronger enemies as the game progresses to location wherever a camera is destroyed.. send swaths of protocol droids / assassins / multiple maintenance or other droids etc. on later decks.

As opposed to permanently enhance threat level / upping enemy population - because i think this is a too unforgivable punishment - just resulting in tempting players to reload savestate.

Wouldn't this be deterrence enough for all players to mostly avoid destroying cameras whilst keeping it realistic / believable?


i think there is great game-loop potential in this waiting to be unlocked...

As "cool" as this is, it's really over the top given that destroying cameras is already sufficiently difficult with this mod. It also seems like a solution looking for a problem.

[673f6205306ectiphares4]

Yes, yes... maybe you are right indeed. Settings for destroying cameras were already far too extreme imo:
After dumping 9 AP rounds (!) into 1 camera to no avail (!!!) i have changed AP round factor or whatever it is called in the dml from 0.50 to 1.75. Now it takes exactly 3 AP shots to take 1 camera down. Combined with standard weapon special ammo 50 % reduction mod i think now this is absolutely spot on.  :)     🍸   🍾        ✔

No more possible to mindlessly destroying every & each camera - but keeping it plausible/immersive.

Like this it seems well balanced now. Btw i have 51 mods running at the same time now - it all seems to work just fine - will download silent or 'lonely shock' soon as well..   :3

[673f620530812voodoo47]

*cough* ss2bmm.log *cough*

[673f62053090aZylonBane]

So... many.... obsolete/outdated/conflicting... mods.

[673f6205309e3tiphares4]

:l

[673f620530d81sarge945]

Yes, yes... maybe you are right indeed. Settings for destroying cameras were already far too extreme imo:
After dumping 9 AP rounds (!) into 1 camera to no avail (!!!) i have changed AP round factor or whatever it is called in the dml from 0.50 to 1.75. Now it takes exactly 3 AP shots to take 1 camera down. Combined with standard weapon special ammo 50 % reduction mod i think now this is absolutely spot on.       🍸   🍾        ✔

No more possible to mindlessly destroying every & each camera - but keeping it plausible/immersive.

Like this it seems well balanced now. Btw i have 51 mods running at the same time now - it all seems to work just fine - will download silent or 'lonely shock' soon as well..   :3

Yeah the numbers are probably a little too high. I appreciate your adjustments.

Also, that mod manager screenshot gives me nightmares.

[673f620530e87voodoo47]

hey, at least they are not videos.

[673f620530f90sarge945]

>Loads up Windows Movie Maker
>Selects "Sky Blue Screen with White Text" for the introductory slide.
>Queue's up Numb by Linkin Park

Motherfuckers, it's time to make a VIDEO.

[673f62053106bZylonBane]

*Cues

[673f62053125bsarge945]

*Cues

I've become so numb...