System Shock, System Shock Portable, System Shock EE, or System Shock Remake?

[673f55b643fabJDoran]

System Shock Remake has been out for a while now, so I thought it would be interesting to see which version of System Shock people prefer to play.

We have:

1. System Shock, the original DOS floppy disc version,

2. System Shock, the enhanced DOS version on CD ROM,

3. System Shock Portable, made by people on this site, which is the DOS game + remaster + various patches and the ability to play the game without having to fight the DOS memory settings first,

4. System Shock  (Sold on Steam and GOG, the DOS Version in Windows Wrapper),

5.  System Shock Enhanced Edition (Sold on Steam and GOG),

6. System Shock Remake.

And soon we will also have Josiah Jack's remake (which is going to be great!), but  I can't include that as it's not yet available, and I don't know of any other fan-made remakes.


I haven't yet played System Shock Remake, as I'm still waiting for the console version, but I really like System Shock Enhanced Edition, and it does everything I want (aside from running on a console, or making cyberspace less tedious), and I like it's graphics, despite the low resolution, and the 2D sprites the game world looks good and uncluttered.

I'm still looking forward to System Shock Remake, though, especially since from what little I've read of it (I don't want to spoil it for me, I want to play it afresh) Night Dive Studios haven't dumbed  it down or 'streamlined' (removed parts of) the gameplay to make is accessible to more people.

So which do you prefer to play? I know most people will prefer System Shock Remake, as it's graphically the most modern, plus it's the version that has had by far the most publicity and exposure to modern audiences, but many people on this forum would be maybe more traditional, and so used to the original DOS versions (however you can play them on your hardware) that you'd see possible negatives in SSR that other people wouldn't.

[673f55b644371Marvin]

I only played the CD-ROM version, with and without the various minimods as well as the mouselook mod. Nowadays, I would probably switch to System Shock Enhanced and keep the mouselook disabled. From what I read, SSE uses VirtualMidiSynth, meaning you can at least use a best-match SC55 soundfont so you can enjoy the original sound. Don't know how close it comes to the real thing, though. Sounds close enough to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZjAn-X3YU4


System Shock Remake is simply a different game. It's not really a matter of preference to me.

[673f55b6444e9Joe]

Personally, I vote for the remake. I had an extremely enjoyable time with it. Might even take over the RE4 remake as my GOTY.

[673f55b644783sarge945]

Enhanced edition, although I use a slightly old patch which doesn't have scuffed player movement.

I did enjoy the remake quite a bit though, even if it also irked me in many ways. Some of the art and gameplay choices seemed quite questionable, but I didn't let it stop me having a good time.

[673f55b6448d5Gawain]

System Shock Portable with resolution mod. No mouselook.

[673f55b644a68icemann]

SSR is a little too broken as of present, and Night Dive are 2 months late in releasing the 1.02 patch for it (announced in their last KS update 2 months ago). CD Projekt Red for as bad as Cyberpunk 2077 was released regular patches for it to attempt to fix what was broken. Night Dive on the other hand, has their priorities elsewhere for reasons unknown.

So for now, I recommend sticking with SSE. It's stable, has far superior music, better voice acting and less odd design decisions.

[673f55b644b65Marvin]

How broken is "broken"? Cyberpunk, depending on which platform you looked at, was broken for more than a year.

[673f55b644cb0icemann]

The comparison to Cyberpunk was only in terms of patching of issues. On a stability scale, SSR is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better. Has some broken physics, and rare condition style events that can corrupt saves (essentially as the game is unplayable if saved once the game is in that state), and there's apparently some items just outside the walls.

But if your lucky and speed through it, chances are you'll only encounter a few issues. I've not been keeping track of Night Dive's "Bug Reporting" channel however, but I know there were quite a few issues reported in there several months back that have yet to be fixed.

[673f55b6450b9JDoran]

Enhanced edition, although I use a slightly old patch which doesn't have scuffed player movement.

What do you mean? What is the bug or flaw that you're referring to, and what earlier patch or version are you using, please?

System Shock Portable with resolution mod. No mouselook.

No mouselook? How do you 'aim' then? It's been so long since I've seen System Shock without mouselook, that I can't remember how aiming was handled in the original control setup.

[673f55b645236Marvin]

You can move the mouse around the screen without changing the viewport. You mostly move without strafing via keyboard and can lean while taking care of any inventory stuff and of course shooting with the mouse. You can play the game almost entirely with a mouse as well but that is extremely cumbersome and simply not viable on harder difficulties.

[673f55b645571sarge945]

What do you mean? What is the bug or flaw that you're referring to, and what earlier patch or version are you using, please?

They updated EE to fix an issue where enemies were getting stuck on terrain, but in the process they also made the players movement jerky and stuttery. They are "working on it" but they have been saying that for years with no patch in sight. I don't expect this to ever be fixed.

The only fix is to downgrade to the previous version.

More info here
https://steamcommunity.com/app/410710/discussions/0/3114773449967279006/

[673f55b645b47JDoran]

They updated EE to fix an issue where enemies were getting stuck on terrain, but in the process they also made the players movement jerky and stuttery. They are "working on it" but they have been saying that for years with no patch in sight. I don't expect this to ever be fixed.

The only fix is to downgrade to the previous version.

More info here
https://steamcommunity.com/app/410710/discussions/0/3114773449967279006/

I see, thanks. But according that page, if I use the latest GOG version of SS1, which is version 1.2.16, and use the fix to lock the framerate to 30 , as detailed in:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/410710/discussions/0/3114773449967279006/#c4650551739526490685

Quote: "you can lock the game engine to 30 FPS by setting

seta cl_engineFPS 30

in %APPDATA%\Nightdive Studios\System Shock EE\kexengine.cfg"

then this bug will not occur, and I will also have the advanatge of whatever bug-fixes are in the latest version of SS1?


Regarding this long time bug that Night Dive Studios haven't gotten around to fixing, I really don't understand NDS. They have done some fantastic things for us gamers, such as making System Shock 1 and 2 purchasable again, bringing some great games to modern gamers and consoles, releasing the source code for System Shock 1, and allowing Josiah Jack to continue with his System Shock 1 Citadel remake (which is rather amazing, most companies would have said no), and so on.

But then NDS do so much to harm the goodwill that they have inspired with their customers. Their customer communications range from bad to non-existent  (to be fair, maybe they do communicate satisfactorily to some customers, but if so, then I've never heard of it, and I personally have given up expecting an answer from them), their seeming refusal to fix long term bugs in their games that fans have paid money for, the way that NDS seem unable or unwilling to announce their plans or releases properly (for example, we STILL don't know when their Sin re-release/remaster  is due out, or when the console versions of System Shock Remake are due out), and so on.

Night Dive Studios have a great niche in the market, bringing old but great games to modern audiences, which I think is brilliant, since there are many still fantastic old games that aren't available on modern hardware (or in some cases, not easily available), and given how jaded I am with the modern gaming industry, NDS would be my favourite current video gaming company, at least if they bothered to answer e-mails and fix their games bugs.

[673f55b646006sarge945]

I see, thanks. But according that page, if I use the latest GOG version of SS1, which is version 1.2.16, and use the fix to lock the framerate to 30 , as detailed in:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/410710/discussions/0/3114773449967279006/#c4650551739526490685

Quote: "you can lock the game engine to 30 FPS by setting

seta cl_engineFPS 30

in %APPDATA%\Nightdive Studios\System Shock EE\kexengine.cfg"

then this bug will not occur, and I will also have the advanatge of whatever bug-fixes are in the latest version of SS1?

The drawback is being forced to play at 30 FPS

[673f55b6474e5voodoo47]

whoever fixes the player potato physics and SS2ifies the hud interactions will get my vote (requests logged in the Shockolate tracker, I expect good results in a decade or two).

[673f55b647644sarge945]

The 90's style over-engineered GUI design is half the charm of SS1's interactivity. Please don't take that away.

[673f55b647755voodoo47]

that's what option menus are for.

Potato physics ON/OFF
SS2 style HUD interactions ON/OFF

[673f55b647854sarge945]

"your memo" repeated every 2 seconds ON/OFF

I'd pay a huge bounty for that feature alone

[673f55b647c43voodoo47]

log it. I'm dead serious.

https://github.com/Interrupt/systemshock/issues


also, putting the SS2 style UI interactions request together finally made me realize why SS1 (still) feels off (even after all the already existing enhancements) - if you are a SS2 player, then some actions will always be mapped to the other mouse button, not the one you would expect (and it doesn't matter whether you use the right button to shoot and left to pick up or vice versa).

The idea is that SS2 got this right, and ideally, SS1 should be moved in that direction as much as possible.

World item pickup:
SS2 (right)click and done, SS1 need to hold shift, (left)click //unnecessary key hold.
Recommendation: one-click use key to pick up world items and insta-move them into the inventory

Container open:
SS2 (right)click and done, SS1 need to double(left)click to open container //unnecessary double click.
Recommendation: one-click use key to open container

Container pick item:
SS2 (left)click item in the container and done, SS1 need to double(left)click item AND (left)click again to release it into the inventory //two additional unnecessary clicks.
Recommendation: single click to move item into inventory. Be aware - to mirror SS2, this should be the shoot key, meaning if left click opens the container, then right click on the item inside the container insta-moves the item into the inventory, and vice versa. This can be made configurable (config var: same click for container open and container object pickup YES/NO)

Extra notes:
-need a config option that would flip left/right mouseclick
-ideally, the game would remember the position of the mouse cursor when in use mode after going into the shoot mode, and resume that position after going back into the use mode again, not just resetting it to the center of the screen each time player switches between the shoot mode and use mode
-when in use mode, (shoot) clicking into the world should enable shoot mode automatically (unless an item is attached to the cursor. in that case, throw the item into the world, and next shoot click into the world enables the shoot mode. this actually is the current behavior when an item is being held, so no change necessary, just careful to not break this, as sometimes it's necessary to grab an inventory object and frob it onto another world object )
-single use click to press buttons, use healing beds in the world etc, no need for doubleclicks

Extra suggestions:
-double use click (fast) container will auto-grab the first item from a container, maybe this should just grab the first item and move it straight to the inventory (flashing the icon of the looted item for a second perhaps), allowing quick looting but without being able to select the pick. Or just disable the fast doubleclick action looting altogether when SS2 UI interactions are active, if the fast doubleclick action is too much hassle to change

Obviously, the hold SHIFT click action that currently helps to speed the interactions up would be superseded by this, and should automatically be turned off once SS2-like UI interactions are active.

[673f55b647f87JDoran]

The drawback is being forced to play at 30 FPS

I don't mind that, thanks.

[673f55b6481ebsverXRazum]

It's really hard to tell why you should choose one version over the other without going into details. Almost every version of System Shock provide different experience.

The Classic, DOS and Floppy give you near perfect 1994 experience where you have to deal with weird controls and slow pacing which is similar to early Resident Evil games that make you feel weak and underpowered because of that.

The Enhanced and Portable versions speed player up with mouse look and more intuitive controls but it results in much easier game. Do I think this is bad? No, not really. The game is still slowly paced since inventory management didn't change at all. But now the inventory itself feels off, forcing you into dead stop most of the time for basic things like reloading or throwing a grenade.

The Remake could be seen as a merge of SS1 and SS2. Comparing it to the Classics feels like a really different games since it's leaning into more FPS mechanics rather than old school quest games. And comparing it to Enhanced edition feels more natural and right.

Remake is a way to go but it's hard to get into it without a context. I personally think everyone should a least try to play the other two versions to enjoy the remake more and to understand why this game is important. Errant Signal said these things way smoother in latest System Shock video so I recommend checking it out.

[673f55b648481Xkilljoy98]

I prefer the EE, though the remake was better than I thought, just needed the original music.

[673f55b6486ebJDoran]

I prefer EE over the DOS versions, because it adds modern conveniences (such as mouse look, redefinable keyboards, widescreen, etc), and it just works. I can't remember what it does that SSP doesn't, but I did have a reason for preferring EE over SSP* (and not just that by buying the EE version then I was actually able to legally own the game). I've not played SSR, so no comments there.

Mind you, having recently learned from:

https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=12412.0

that the EE version has the following bugs:

* In original version if you throw items into elevator they are moved outside of the elevator door when you change the level.
In EE the items disappear.

* Also the random number generator from the computer nodes is broken, and it results in the same code every time.

* The screens in the lobby of deck 6 are stuck with the same picture, not showing the codes.

* And of course the bug detailed earlier in this thread:

          "They updated EE to fix an issue where enemies were getting stuck on terrain, but in the process they also made the players
            movement jerky and stuttery. They are "working on it" but they have been saying that for years with no patch in sight.
            I don't expect this to ever be fixed."

then perhaps SSP might be preferable to some people who prefer strict authenticity in their System Shock experiences. Though at least the terrain/movement bug can be fixed/worked around, fortunately for us EE fans.

[673f55b6488e1voodoo47]

SSP will be updated with the latest stuff as soon as Shockolate supports modern resolutions.

then it should be (almost) on par with EE (but doing some things differently, for better or worse).

[673f55b648a25JDoran]

Oh right. I thought SSP had been abandoned, due to System Shock/EE being now available commercially. They can co-exist of couese, along with Shockolate and any forked versions.

I've never visited the Shockolate discord (because I personally detest Discord), so I don't know what has been added to the current release version. What has been added, please? Has cyberspace been improved at all (I can dream...)?