demand system shock 3

[674442af6717dicemann]

I explained before, on a fundamental level Bioshock is a terrible game. You of all people should get this, as an 80s gamer. In Bioshock, you have god mode by default in the form of vita chambers, which before you say they're the same as SS2, nope, the execution is completely different. And lets not forget the big yellow arrow of retard. There is little to talk about otherwise. Shoot the same enemy type over and over with janky pea shooters, rummage through bins for trash you don't need, and play pipe dream.

Firstly being an 80s gamer, I've seen games go from a few pixels on a screen (pick anything from the Atari 2600) to what we have today. So I appreciate massively in whatever we get, as its leagues ahead of what was possible back in the beginning 😀. Stuff from the 90s is my sweet spot. I love everything from that time period.

Vita chamber vs resurrection chamber is essentially the same thing, with only minor differences. In SS their not on by default and can be switched off vs BS where it's on from the get go, but can (I think) be destroyed or turned off in the options menu. Beyond that their the same.

The objective arrow I hate as well, but thankfully you can switch that off. I didn't mind the objective stars in BS1 that sadly were removed in BS2. I don't like being constantly told where to go. Exploration is where the fun is. I don't mind the stars since its just there only on the main map for when you need it.

On pipe dream I prefer that over the hacking in BS2 of the moving cursor that you have to get over the target. Pipe dream is puzzle thinking, where as the BS2 style is reaction time based.

[674442af6735aJoin2]

@killjoy The Bioshock copy I played was on the Xbox. PS3 and PC recieved a patch to disable those after backlash from players. The Xbox version did not recieve this patch, and still does not have it to this day.

Secondly, "it's optional" is not always a good defense, and is not in this particular case. I won't bother to explain the numerous reasons why. It's not worth it.

Sorry lady, your game is for morons.

[674442af676a9Join2]

Stuff from the 90s is my sweet spot. I love everything from that time period.

Nice try but there is no redemption for people that think Bioschlock is good.
If anything worked, this statement would be it, though.

[674442af67b2cXkilljoy98]

@killjoy The Bioshock copy I played was on the Xbox. PS3 and PC recieved a patch to disable those after backlash from players. The Xbox version did not recieve this patch, and still does not have it to this day.

Secondly, "it's optional" is not always a good defense, and is not in this particular case. I won't bother to explain the numerous reasons why. It's not worth it.

Sorry lady, your game is for morons.

I believe the collection versions have it, and I do recall seeing it on xbox 360 though I could be mistaken. Though regardless it is an option unless you simply have not played it since the 360 and that is still your only option. Though iirc 2 has it on 360.

I'm just saying that difficulty options exist for a reason and if you find a game too easy then use them. Beside again not everyone minds easy games

It's not for morons, it's just not for everyone. Don't be an ass and call everyone who enjoys it dumb. Unless you wanna gatekeep and that is its own can of worms

The reason it isn't ss2 is cause that isn't the game they wanted to make, again easy isn't bad.

I can be defensive sometimes, though I love it for a reason. As do the many others who played and enjoyed it.

Though I suppose it says a lot about one's character when instead of simply agreeing to disagree and preferring different things they insult those who enjoyed something they did not

[674442af67fa5Join2]

Don't be an ass and call everyone who enjoys it dumb.

People who enjoy it, sure not necessarily dumb (typically yes), but most certainly ignorant on the subject.   

Unless you wanna gatekeep and that is its own can of worms

Lack of gatekeeping is why mostly everything sucks now. In both the video game world and the real one.

The reason it isn't ss2 is cause that isn't the game they wanted to make, again easy isn't bad.

I am to some degree accepting of easy. Bioshock isn't easy, it's retarded. A Pidgeon could beat it. Even when ignoring its fundamental blunders it's a very unengaging game, it just wont seem that way to someone that grew up with 2000s era worthless garbage as their only point of reference. By comparison to that abysmally low standard it actually has some merit.

I can be defensive sometimes, though I love it for a reason. As do the many others who played and enjoyed it

Though I suppose it says a lot about one's character when instead of simply agreeing to disagree and preferring different things they insult those who enjoyed something they did not

Sue me. I have standards and tire of everyone having none. That's how you end up with kids addicted to fortnite and microtransactions, playing the same brainrot game over and over for years. GREAT for their early learning development. This fate was enabled by people like you. Not you specifically, as you were just a kid when it came out. But older generations should have known better. Icemann should know better. The blame largely lies with all the sellout developers though, make no mistake. They know what they did.

[674442af68576Xkilljoy98]

People who enjoy it, sure not necessarily dumb (typically yes), but most certainly ignorant on the subject.   

Lack of gatekeeping is why mostly everything sucks now. In both the video game world and the real one.

I am to some degree accepting of easy. Bioshock isn't easy, it's retarded. A Pidgeon could beat it.

Sue me. I have standards and tire of everyone having none. That's how you end up with kids addicted to fortnite and microtransactions, playing the same brainrot game over and over for years. This fate was enabled by people like you.

People who enjoy it aren't ignorant on it just for disagreeing with you and no aren't dumb just for liking it

What? I'm not saying we can't critique, there is a difference between that and just understanding that people enjoy things that you might not

Bioshock isn't that easy, it can be easier but not as easy as you make it out to be

I and many others have standards, and I think it is wrong of you to assume others do not simply for having a slightly different opinion on what amounts to a distraction from the woes of the world.

Besides the 2000s had lots of good games, even if some aren't perfect

Lastly don't you say that stuff is somehow due to me, you don't even know me. How can you judge me?

I don't like microtransactions any more than others do, so don't assume you know me and don't include me with them

Don't be such an asshole, I like a series that you do, I just also happen to like one that you don't. Somehow that makes you mad

Edit: Also, there is nothing wrong with older people liking a game. Seriously what is your problem? Oh no someone likes a different game than you? Big deal

If you wanna play nothing but SS2 for all your life go right ahead, but don't hate on others just for liking something. We can't control what we like and many argue that things are good or bad. At the end of the day everyone is doing this for the same few reasons so don't be an ass and hate on someone for being different.

I love both Bioshock and System Shock, both are great for many reasons despite having a few flaws here and there, and nothing you will say will change those thoughts. If you can't accept that people like games you don't then let's end it there and move on.

[674442af68677Join2]

Question: when you have kids of your own will you let them play fortnite?

[674442af688abXkilljoy98]

Join2I mean I don't see why I wouldn't. I have played Fortnite a few times and it isn't my favorite game or anything but it's not that different from any other game

I would let them play whatever they found enjoyable. It isn't up to me to make that choice for them

Beside if you tell someone no, they're gonna do it anyway if they really are determined

[674442af689baJoin2]

Yandere Simulator and Furry sex games it is then!

This is why it is the Dad's job to be firm and set the rules.

[674442af68bd7Xkilljoy98]

Join2Don't just assume everyone is going to play the former, and I am a furry myself so......

Though seriously, as long as they have decent/good morals, can be themselves, can get by ok, and are happy, then that is what is important

Geez, rules that say what they can and can't do, don't prevent anything as people will always find a way

[674442af68cd8Join2]

This world...

[674442af68f2eXkilljoy98]

Join2Hey I won't argue that it's kind of shit in many ways, but I think we might disagree on some of the reasons

After all, if they aren't hurting anyone and are happy then I see no issues

You seem like a person that dislikes change for changes sake

Tho at least I am reminded why I don't come on here that often aside every once in awhile

[674442af6908cJoin2]

Disliking change for change's sake couldn't be further from the truth with me. There's simply certain standards and ideals that should be abided by (such as keeping children away from sexual content), UNLESS the standard that is replacing them is measurably better. A rare occurrence in today's world of degeneracy and idiocy unfortunately. Furthermore, it's too late. The standards are well and truly lost at this point.

Anyways, dipping out. I want to continue to speak the truth as always, but what would come next...I will spare you some hurt feelings, and myself some time. Only because you are a woman.

You take care now.
 

[674442af69413Xkilljoy98]

Disliking change for change's sake couldn't be further from the truth with me. There's simply certain standards and ideals that should be abided by, UNLESS the thing that is replacing them is measurably better. A rare occurrence in today's world of degeneracy and idiocy unfortunately.

Anyways, dipping out. I want to continue to speak the truth as always, but what would come next...I will spare you some hurt feelings, and myself some time. Only because you are a woman.

You take care now.

"Degeneracy" isn't an issue as people should be allowed to live freely as long as they aren't harming others

"Idiocy" can vary, though it's no more an issue now than it was before. There are idiots and smart people. That hasn't changed, though I imagine we would have very different ideas on what those are.

If you want to set rigid rules that I imagine I would hate than I don't wanna live in your world. I doubt those standards and ideals are anything too great judging from our brief conversation, but I am not in the mood for politics. I only ask that people not be bigots and help each other when they can. You seem to give off the impression that you hate others from simply being different than you, which isn't a good quality to have.

Well I guess I should feel grateful huh? Well I doubt anything you have to say could count as truth but I have had enough of all this. Time to close this site and not look it again for a few weeks or months

[674442af695dfJoin2]

OK then, a quick lesson before you leave.

1. Degeneracy is antithetical to family values. Family being the absolute core of a healthy society.
2. Degeneracy hurts no one is false. Degeneracy can include, for example, being attracted to children, sex slaves, corpses and animals, none of which can consent. It also spreads STDs, some of which, if you're truly degenerate, can be entirely new ones introduced into circulation permanently.
3. Degeneracy goes hand-in-hand with hedonism; the prioritization of pleasure in one's lifestyle, actions, or thoughts. Sure, we're all at least a little perverse, sex is awesome, I love sluts when they open their legs for me, but free love & promiscuity is supposed to be shamed, contained, and not encouraged in a healthy society.
4. It's also how you get crazed school shooters and other tragic outcomes. Most commonly at the heart of it is a kid seeing free love being spread out in abundance, just not to them. Look up every school shooter. Ugly or mediocre at best. In a more classy society it'd never happen. It's not right in their face every day.

This is just a brief overview. Degeneracy is bad all-around for society.

[674442af69bd1Join2]

Vita chamber vs resurrection chamber is essentially the same thing, with only minor differences. In SS their not on by default and can be switched off vs BS where it's on from the get go, but can (I think) be destroyed or turned off in the options menu. Beyond that their the same."

WRONG

Here's the differences between SS2 and Bioshock respawns, oh blind one.
 
-SS2 Reconstruction chambers are not on by default.
-Not all decks/levels have one. In bioshock, they're only not present on the final boss.
-Currency (nanites) consequence for use, which also scales based on difficulty.
-If no currency remaining, game over.
-Respawn at 10% of max health. I forget what it is in Bioshock but it's a lot more. Possibly 50%.
-High enemy respawn rates means you'll likely have more encounters on your way back to where you were.
-"Where you were" in Bioshock is always just around the corner. Vita Chambers are absolutely everywhere. Your only consequence for death is essentially being moved 10ft away from where you died and a brief moment of no control while you're ressurrected. Health is an infinite resource. It gives you 50% every time.

In Bioshock you can literally just keep charging enemies with the wrench over and over, "dying" (being moved 10ft away) repeatedly if necessary, until they're all dead, Including Big Daddies. This is not at all necessary as ammo isn't much a concern, you just do the same with guns. It's borderline God mode. Bioshock is mediocre as fuck, so instead picture if Doom (1993) released with the god mode command as the default. It wasn't a cheat, it was just on all the time as the intended way to play. It would make the entire game redundant. Until a patch came out. For some platforms. And even then it's still on by default as the intended way to play. The only testing mental engagement via gameplay remaining would be navigation challenge for the most part... which Bioshock has got you covered with GPS lol. It's funny, about the only actual challenge that's not illusion is the thing everyone complains about: pipe dream puzzles. But they are not particularly engaging puzzles, it's true. Or they're just overused. Still, the entire rest of the game is not demanding in the slightest so players probably just get conditioned to be mentally lazy.

So the conclusion is, Bioshock isn't a game, almost, it is merely pretending. But "gamers" are thick as rocks, and Irrational quite ingenious (and shameless) in their selling out tactics. Who would have thought after all LGS' pushing the envelope and amazing game design, all they needed to do was make something that wasn't even a game at all. That's how you cash in off the populace.

It's disappointing that the vast majority of people don't quite comprehend simple concepts in front of them as they experience them. Especially disappointing with seasoned gamers. I see it all the time. Full grown adults playing absolutely braindead video games and thinking they're actually valuable. This God Mode state is hardly vague if you're paying even the slightest bit of attention.
The relevance of this is not to be understated when the vast majority of gameplay all revolves around staying alive. You scavenge for resources, get stronger, engage in combat, sneak past, buy stuff, hack things, all of that is based around survival as the primary motive. The core that all gameplay revolves around. There are other reasons too, yes, pure curiosity of interesting interactions and events, you simply like getting powerful and shooting bees at people etc, but survival is the very core that makes all these things whole, and the game actually a game, which it is hard to qualify it as as it stands.

[674442af69f90Join2]

You've heard me say games went to shit in the 2000s, and it's actually LGS alumni in particular whom I blame as the very core influence of that, alongside Microsoft. Between the Xbox (Shamus Blackley), Bioshock (Irrational), Zynga (Neurath), Tomb Raider: Legend (Doug Church), Invisible War (Spector & Smith), that's quite the swarm of shit! With a huge impact. They really unleashed hell, and it was very intentional. Video games were not at all that dumb in the 90s. the complete opposite rather, even the vast majority big name console games had a strong degree of design intelligence and demand of the player. But it wasn't just them. Other PC developers are to blame. Halo was by Bungie (PC dev). Doom 3 by id. Gears of War by EPIC. Half-Life 2 by valve. all complete trash by 90s standards. There had to have been back stage talks of aggressively taking over the console market in organized fashion for sure, for all the big name games were suddenly dumb as shit but with exceptional presentation, all by PC devs. Whatever happened in those Xbox board room talks, it was shameless. Console games by actual legitimate console devs were actually still going relatively strong for the first half of the decade, definitely hindered by rapidly increasing graphics demand, but only becoming wide scale braindead sellout stuff around 2006, likely in response to the Xbox invasion and the kind of games it produced. The industry now had a new direction in mind. And it wasn't one involving actual principled game design. If you know what principled game design even is. Probably not! Most don't even recognize Bioshock game design is all illusion.

It was definitely not all sinister Xbox PC dev planning though. Fancy graphics increased game budgets exponentially. This is the biggest conflict with intelligent game design imaginable for multiple reasons. Doesn't mean a game can't be good, the odds of that are just very slim realistically. Numerous devs were also blinded by the ability to make things more realistic and tell a story like the movies do, and what this means for games (SHIT was often the result, but that's perhaps not what they thought at the time). Another big factor is just how far engine programmers like Carmack et al pushed graphics capability so quickly. The hardware of even PCs were not ready. It was too soon! That's why Doom3 for example is linear, absolutely cramped with low enemy count etc. That's not an Xbox game (well, it was ported later). Low and even mid-range hardware of the time would shit a brick if those games had old school design akin to OG Doom. I'd imagine even good PCs would struggle, given OG doom would have upwards of 60 enemies on screen, and all their glorious swarms of projectiles.

Anyways, we can't be too mad at LGS for their unleashing of hell when they were always scraping by as a PC dev. Though I'd primarily put that under the lack of marketing (publisher at fault) as to why. Marketing is (mostly) everything. You don't actually need to make completely worthless games if you have good marketing, that's what's so tragic about the whole situation. The rare few modern classics proved that. LGS level of grand game design though, yeah that will never be for mass consumption, reaching as wide an audience as possible approach every big budget game "must" take now. It rules out pretty much everyone under the age of, say, 13 for starters. But mid range budgets of today should be a comfy spot for Immersive Sims. The thing is, mid range budget games have almost ceased to be a thing from what I can tell. AAA insane budget or indie is the new norm, with the very occassional mid range, sensibly budgeted game.

[674442af6a442Join2]

4. It's also how you get crazed school shooters and other tragic outcomes. Most commonly at the heart of it is a kid seeing free love being spread out in abundance, just not to them. Look up every school shooter. Ugly or mediocre at best. In a more classy society it'd never happen. It's not right in their face every day.

This is just a brief overview. Degeneracy is bad all-around for society.

It's also important to add that porn is a big factor here. It is degenerate. That kid, feeling completely unlovable, full of raging hormones, goes home every day and jerks off to the indescribable majesty of a beautiful naked women...getting railed on the internet, in HD and full motion. So close he can almost taste it. He wants it bad. And he also more than anything wants to feel valued and loved. He knows he will never get it. Those same girls at school he wants probably bully him, call him gross. The superior specimen dudes fucking those girls so openly also bully him as a power move, all to impress the woman, whom is attracted to power. Not her fault, biology is a dark mistress. Most mentally well-rounded kids will survive, but throw some other factors on top such as abuse & neglect at home, and you have the recipe for a complete mental breakdown and some dead kids.

Porn needs to go, for the children at the very least. Internet bad. Modern western society is dumb as shit for letting things get this out of control.

And yeah, those zero tolerance bullying policies or whatever they have these days, bad. Bring back slut shaming, not a big deal it's bad behavior. Not like I'm calling for the Hijab. Acceptance for all? No, you hide your attraction to animals. Your actions have consequences. Children should not be seeing this behavior normalized. People should not be advertising their sexual kinks. Keep it under wraps. Have some modesty. You're allowed to have such orientation arguably, but the world does not need to know.

Here is how furry degeneracy in particular is harmful:

Stupid kid brain loaded on hormones: "wait, fucking animals is an option? I never once thought of that. AND it's considered normal".

In walks scruffy the family dog...

Sigh. Why do I even need to type this shit, goddamn clown world. NOW I need an internet detox. goddamn.

[674442af6a60bvoodoo47]

the way I see it, the internet only accelerates what already is there. so yeah, that kid who shot a school up and killed a bunch of other kids? probably would have been able to keep the lid on for longer without it. and grow up to be a fine serial killer, for example.

internet isn't evil. people are.


also porn is a few thousand years older than the internet, and nobody is going to stop it, ever. so good luck with that.

[674442af6a8e2Join2]

so yeah, that kid who shot a school up and killed a bunch of other kids? probably would have been able to keep the lid on for longer without it. and grow up to be a fine serial killer, for example.

I...hadn't considered that. Good point.

As for porn history, it was all just far less accessible before. Especially for kids. Now everyone has it in their pocket at all times, zero restrictions (aside from the small number of responsible parents that apply childlocks). Kids shouldn't have that, that's absurd.
Remember, not just any porn too. All kinds. As degenerate as is possibly imaginable, the internet has it. Or so I hear.

[674442af6aa0fJoin2]

Back to Bioshock quickly, though that dumpster fire doesn't deserve all this attention: I am almost certain playing without vita chambers results in a crappy experience too, as the game is not designed around it. Probably is a massive quickload/save fest. Idk maybe they spawned more medkits if the chambers are disabled. Can't really speak further on the topic though. Haven't tried it, never will.

[674442af6ab07voodoo47]

I'll just repeat what I have said the last couple of times we had this discussion - would pay serious money for BS/BS2 1999 edition.

take the core which is good, get rid of all the bs, release, profit.

[674442af6ac7aXkilljoy98]

Geez you really went on a rant huh? Can’t stop?

I ain’t about to read all that, I’ll just repeat what I said and say Bioshock is a good game and “degeneracy” isn’t actually a problem

Bioshock isn’t a game about dying an respawning and again 
you can tweak options but DO NOT insult others for simply liking it. You are biased against the game and cannot review it properly, that much is obvious. Easy isn't bad, some like it

Also “family values” all just a bullshit excuse to restrict people

Furry isn’t Zoophile, you’d know that if you did any fucking research

Porn isn’t bad either, I’m starting to think you’re some right winged conservative asshole, in which case I’d really call you a pos

In any case given the direction it’s take I’d rather this thread either close, or move on from politics and Bioshock

[674442af6afd2Pacmikey]

Porn isn’t bad either

It really is though. Humans are not meant to see so many naked people getting fucked, it does bad things to the brain. Same with just having easy access to such a stimulating thing, it burns the synapses too fast.

Even worse is porn that shows impossible stuff, cause then someone gets hooked on something that doesn't exist, and IRL people aren't as appetizing anymore.

I personally hate how sexualized everything is. Feels like I live in that world in that Black Mirror episode where if I close my eyes during porn ads it yells at me to open them.