Doom & Gloom

[673f51b2066c6Pacmikey]

Not a psychologist, but I think you should consider an internet detox. Constantly thinking about this kind of stuff is gonna keep you enraged forever. The internet now mostly exists only to get people angry.

[673f51b206a0eJoin2]

I have gone no internet many times. This is a world problem, not internet. And again, it's mostly all stuff on my mind since I could interpret said world. any time I receive my paycheck and see that tax rate and gross pay, or slog up the hill at 6am in the freezing rain, commuting packed on a bus shoulder to shoulder like sardines with 100 indians, is when it's most on the mind! I moved to a new country (not india) and haven't really had the opportunity get a car in order yet, despite half "decent" pay relative to some other unlucky souls. Money is tight. I don't think I want to get a line of credit for more future shafting.

Stupid post. Sorry. I need a reality detox (video games). Recommend one to me, if you have taste.

Or hell, a vacation is good for the soul but I'm still thinking about it when I see the poors servicing me abroad and treating me like a king because I give them paper. I didn't even ask, that's just how the system made them. To be specific, my last vacation was in mexico at one of the typical tourist traps. The entire place is sustained on foreign money. It's gross. It circles back to the system in that the peso is garbage and everyone is super poor, weak infrastructure in place and such with no busting industry, not much fertile land for farming, so their best bet is to service foreigners. I'm not sure exactly the factors but it's a fucking mess.

I told you, I dont want hold my hands over my eyes and pretend all this shit is sane and sensible. The sheeple go through life and along with the system without question. You need the goddamn detox or to have your mental state checked. That's what gives it power. Sheepish compliance.

I bet you're the kind that refuses to discuss wages with coworkers 😆

[673f51b206b20Pacmikey]

Why are you so hostile all of a sudden? That came out of nowhere.

[673f51b206c95Nameless Voice]

I have to say, the problems with the world have little to do with the internet.
The internet just lets us see them more clearly.

[673f51b206e41voodoo47]

yes. give a man a mask, and he will become his true self.

[673f51b207232Join2]

Why are you so hostile all of a sudden? That came out of nowhere.

Your post came across as patronizing, or at least a little insulting. No big deal I don't think you meant it. And even if you did, still no big deal. I will happily patronize you the moment you start talking about braindead sellout unsubstantial modern games in a positive light. Especially those that are extra absurd. Don't take it personally, I just find it highly disappointing that more are not critical, and that it lowers standards for all. I'm passionate about the subject.

[673f51b20752bJoin2]

I have to say, the problems with the world have little to do with the internet.
The internet just lets us see them more clearly.

Generally I agree. I've been saying burn the internet etc but if I really think about it, the problems it causes wouldn't be too hard to tackle if more primary real world concerns weren't so broken. Still, I do think the issues is does cause should not be understated.

[673f51b207672Nameless Voice]

We likely wouldn't even know about those real world concerns if the internet didn't make information accessible.

Though I'm sure there's an argument to be made that we'd be happier if we didn't know about the horrors of the world and just kept our heads down.

[673f51b20796cicemann]

yes. give a man a mask, and he will become his true self.

Words of wisdom and truth right there.

[673f51b207d02Join2]

While on the subject of taxes, that's another thing I missed in the OP. Taxation of the lower and middle class is the fucking worst. Gov. tax in western nations was first introduced at a reasonable rate, in theory and in practice, for the good of society...and then they kept raising it little by little over the years in small increments so that it never seems like a big jump at once. Now some people are paying around 40% in income tax, then yet more tax any time their money changes hands. And tax owning a house. Tax for even owning a TV! Originally, there was not all these extra bs income deductions like pension schemes which are a total scam. A significant portion of people die before they can even cash it in, after which a bunch of fuckery is involved for family potentially laying claim to it, designed as such so that a portion of it can be pocketed instead of just automatically being handed to next of kin as it should be. That's if anyone even comes forward to lay claim to it...

It's scams all the way down. Every system. The working poor are fucked hardest, followed by the middle class. Well, that's debatable really. The poor need a break from it the most as they have so little and suffer additional nuanced charges in society that no other class does, the middle class get robbed the most in raw numbers but it hurts less as they have a more solid foundation. Sure the rich pay the most in reality but it in most cases barely puts a dent in their wallet, is almost irrelevant. The Rich don't thrive on income, but assets. Don't even get me started on banking. That's another one actually that's changed since Pre-2000 world: savings account interest rates so pathetic you may as well not even bother, among other things.

Like Nameless Voice said, late stage capitalism. It didn't have to be this way though, capitalism is a good system in theory, or at least it could be with some corruption failsafes in place. The evil fucks that walk among us clamoring for power are always going to ensure things turn out this way though, just as they have throughout our species entire history. I guess this really does mean war is coming, as that's always the cycle right? Fuck. Why do we have to be so variable as a species? Evil/Good, Weak/Strong, Ugly/Handsome, Dumb/Smart...that is the crux of the issue but can't be helped. It's all natural.

[673f51b207e19icemann]

We're all living in that cyberpunk future predicted back in the 80s I keep telling people, but no 'ones listening.

[673f51b208031Nameless Voice]

We need that tax money to benefit society, but of course it's in the interest of the people in power (who are always rich) to gather the money from everyone poorer than them, because they don't actually want to give up any of their wealth for anyone else.
Oh, and also to squander most of the tax money on corruption, because that benefits them personally.

Anyway, no, capitalism isn't a good system in theory.  Its entire concept is built around exploiting people.
At its most basic, capitalism only works if everyone is paid less than the value that they contribute, so that someone can siphon off the excess and get rich.
The tiny capitalist class are the only ones with any power, because they control the money and therefore control what can be done / tried / invested in.

I saw a very interesting video about how a lot of our current economic systems were set up by the displaced nobility after the French Revolution (and end of monarchy), because they wanted to find a way to keep power in the new system, now based on their family's wealth rather than their family's titles.  That's why they worked so hard to change the system of values from "the value of a product is how much it costs in materials and labour" to "the value of a product is how much a rich man is willing to pay for it."

[673f51b2082f0Nameless Voice]

We're all living in that cyberpunk future predicted back in the 80s I keep telling people, but no 'ones listening.

I keep saying the reason cyberpunk isn't really popular any more is because we're already living in it.

[673f51b2085c3Join2]

I've noticed a steadily increasing surge of awakening of late, both in real life and the internet. It's impossible to ignore for the middle and lower classes, especially where I live. Older people and the financially-set however are clueless and/or don't care.

Anyway, no, capitalism isn't a good system in theory.  Its entire concept is built around exploiting people.

Hence my mention of corruption failsafes. Though it would need many. As many as there are tax codes.

Other economic systems all had the same fate did they not? Corruption and exploitation was the final outcome, the same triangle power structure of feudalism. The same abuse of power. Every time.

Capitalism does have merit. It's the only system that is proven to result in very prosperous times for the majority (e.g numerous nations of the west post-WW2 until 1980 or so) while advancing society, even if that time was short lived.
It is also to a degree merit-based. The more you put in, the more you get out. Competence is rewarded. In reality that's not often the case, but the foundation is there: Smart, hardworking, accomplished, then pretty much no matter what you're going to be better off than a total retard with nothing going for him and doesn't work hard. That is how it should be, right? It's not fair to get the same as him if you work harder and are simply more efficient and ingenious.
Capitalism itself doesn't explicitly result in exploitation by design, but it doesn't defend against it either. So it is taken advantage of until it all compounds to the sorry state we have today. Your competition outsources jobs and materials to India for super cheap? This leaves you little choice to follow suit, or else collapse as a business. With laws and regulations in place, this could have been avoided. That's what it needs. An anti-corruption overhaul. This is what ANY system would need.

That's my understanding. I am not super well-versed in the subject. Educate me if I'm wrong.

[673f51b208922Nameless Voice]

Every system is broken by corruption, yes.

But by its entire definition, capitalism is a two-class system, with those who work and those who own things and get rich off the work of others.

What gets investment (time, money, people) is what those capitalists want to invest in - and it's usually something that makes them more profit or brings them some benefit.  I'd rather investment was selected by people trying to benefit humanity instead.

Also, I think you're specifically talking about free-market capitalism, which is the main system that has been used in the West.  That, by its definition, wants to have as little regulation (e.g. "corruption failsafes") as possible.

The biggest argument for free-market capitalism has always been "that it drives innovation", e.g. if people are desperate and need money, they will innovate.  But that's been repeatedly proven to be false, because most of the real innovation (new technologies, medicines, etc.) come from public bodies, public research, and/or public funding (and the results are then often made private so that someone can profit, instead of being used to help humanity.)



I also generally disagree on the "meritocracy" stuff, because I don't think anyone should not be allowed to live just because they don't want to or can't work like an idiot.  We have enough resources for everyone to live comfortably. Sure, you could say people who work hard should get more luxuries, but there's no reason not to let everyone have enough to survive.

We as a society have a crazy over-fixation on work anyway, and most of that work is, frankly, pointless.
Most people can't choose to do what they want, because most activities aren't profitable, and so they wouldn't be able to afford to live.

e.g. I'd say making mods that people enjoy is more beneficial to society than working in an office job no one cares about, yet you'll starve to death if you decided to make mods instead of doing a job.

[673f51b2091dcJoin2]

What superior alternative is there though? It would surely only be a modified version of capitalism with extensive anti-exploitation/corruption built in by design, no?

e.g. I'd say making mods that people enjoy is more beneficial to society than working in an office job no one cares about, yet you'll starve to death if you decided to make mods instead of doing a job.

Hits too close to home. If I could do it, I absolutely would. Mods for days. All the classics.

I also generally disagree on the "meritocracy" stuff, because I don't think anyone should not be allowed to live just because they don't want to or can't work like an idiot.  We have enough resources for everyone to live comfortably. Sure, you could say people who work hard should get more luxuries, but there's no reason not to let everyone have enough to survive.

I agree, but then nobody would do the shit jobs (which is a good 50% of them). They would overwhelmingly just take the "just surviving" option instead. Unless those jobs paid very well...which they probably should. Definitely more than whatever shit rate min wage is at now anyway.

Personally I want to see less slavish work weeks before anything. 4 day work week is a healthy balance. Still a lot of work getting done for society at probably the same level of productivity, and a better standard of living for all otherwise. I'd be way more enthusiastic about work life if it weren't a thief of all my time. Fucking bullshit.

I miss my old 4 days 10 hour shifts job. Three days of freedom. Four on a public holiday. It was mentally and physically freeing. Should be 4x8 for all though.

[673f51b2093d3voodoo47]

the way I see it, things are going to be garbage no matter what you do. it's just how people are.

that said, I much prefer a system where people are lining up for iphones, and some can't afford one, opposed to a system where people are lining up for bread, and some can't afford one.

probably because I remember both.

[673f51b209925Nameless Voice]

What superior alternative is there though? It would surely only be a modified version of capitalism with extensive anti-exploitation/corruption built in by design, no?

Not necessarily.  Capitalism means "rich men own and control the means of production."
Basically, everything is run by big companies controlled by rich men (and sometimes women).

We could have a society where production is instead controlled equally by the workers, who share the proceeds equally (a cooperative), or one where production is publicly controlled for the common good (a planned economy).

Both are open to corruption, of course!  Especially the government-controlled one if there's not enough protections against corruption.



As for people not wanting to work jobs if they didn't have to - I'd argue some people would still want to, and that at least half of the jobs in our current society are completely pointless anyway, and could be done away with.
It'd obviously need to be balanced so that essential jobs - especially food production and healthcare - are still being done.  But there are people who actually enjoy being doctors, nurses, farmers, craftspeople, artists, programmers, etc. - and would still choose to do those things even if they didn't need to in order to survive.

[673f51b209bfcfox]

I really do wonder what the world would look like without the internet.

"You take the blue pill... the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill... you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes." 

Or if you prefer it more traditional: would you eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

Do you really want to be woke, motherfucker?

I feel like the way the internet and globalization makes us (semi-)aware of way too many issues all at the same time and (seemingly) with barely a way to change them in a meaningful way. It's like constantly overdosing on something that could be a powerful medicine when used in moderation and with a strong ability to focus. It's not like that for everyone but for very many of us who grew up with it in their daily lifes, it's often addictive in a self-destructive way, too. And I certainly do believe that the woke craze can be seen as bad reaction to that overexposure to the world and human flaws, mostly by a generation that has never experienced anything different, which may also explain why they can't understand and accept anything outside of their own rightous thinking bubble.

I wouldn't want any of those pills, pure ignorance is terrible and losing all illusions all at once would be horrible too, at least if it doesn't come with a veritable saviour figure on your side that can provide a fighting chance for positive change. Which is key. Knowledge and awareness alone are nothing but a burden. Probably what makes "woke" people push too hard, too.

[673f51b209d58voodoo47]

lets maybe not do the planned economy/give power to the workers thing. we've already tried that, and it was.. not great.

unless you really like steamed rice with dill gravy and bone scrapings for your sunday lunch. ahh, childhood memories.

[673f51b209eafNameless Voice]

Not really, it's never truly been tried.  There were some brief notions of it during the Russian revolution, but the whole thing quickly got taken over by corruption and replaced with... something else.  Military despotism, mostly.  Or whatever on earth Stalin was.

But of course, that's always been the problem.  Any great idea for how to improve society never survives meeting actual humans.
We destroy everything.

[673f51b20a10evoodoo47]

well yes, that is how people are.

so this isn't a problem that can be solved, all you can do is look at the past, and try to do whatever produces the least amount of people starved to death. and democracy and open markets, as much as they suck, seem to be the least awful solution.

getting things into perspective also helps - so yes, current state of affairs is not amazing, taxes aren't great, rent is up, food is more expensive, and there are people riding all the misery and getting rich (this actually always happens, no matter where or when). that said, when compared to what we had here thirty something years ago, I can;

- get whatever education I want
- get a job I want, and quit it if I want the moment I want
- marry whoever I want, and not marry who I don't want
- move to a different city whenever I want
- pay for better treatment if I want and can afford it
- buy whatever thing or service I want, and can afford
- leave the country without being shot at
- express my dissatisfaction without winning a trip to the uranium mines
- read whatever I want without the cops banging on my door
- toilet paper is always in stock
- am not forced to attend idiotic parades waving stupid flags where I get irradiated because the same morons who scheduled the parade also mismanaged a nuclear reactor and blew it up

yeah, I think I'll take what I have right now without batting an eye.

[673f51b20a524Xkilljoy98]

I don't plan on staying here as I know how these arguments can go but I do agree that a lot of things suck and it is getting harder and harder for many just to get by. Especially in certain parts of the world.

Environmental Issues, Politicians not fixing anything, Fascism on the rise, bigotry, prices through the roof, basic needs (food, water, healthcare, etc) getting harder for people to get, the wage gap increasing, etc

Just wish I could do something and wasn't powerless.

Not to say it was perfect before cause it wasn't, but it feels like it's worse recently given all that is going on. IDK, I can't really speak fully for what I wasn't around for.

I hope it gets fixed but I guess we'll see. I just wish I lived in a different world.
I like to think that someday things will be fixed and we'll evolve past our current flawed state, but who knows

Tho speaking of doom and gloom, I do recommend this video:
https://youtu.be/3-mjTQ0VBwI?si=_H6NvVUg4ci35KvQ
It is depressing, but good

[673f51b20a652icemann]

The important thing is to protect your family, friends and yourself. The rest are the random variables that you can't control. Pandemic lockdown days taught me that.