Questions about NewDark.

[66ee342ed67b2CyrusVonNox2001]

We've all used NewDark to play SS2, Thief, and Thief2, but I haven't really came to a conclusion about what NewDark is. Is NewDark basically a source port? Is NewDark open source? Does NewDark have an SDK? Could we make entirely original games using NewDark? I'd love to see a fan recreation of that Deep Cover spy game that Looking Glass was working on before they went under.

[66ee342ed6992voodoo47]

only the Raven knows for sure.

technically, you could create completely new standalone Thief/Shock games anyone could play for free using just the NewDark files, and the T1/T2/SS2 demo resources (maybe combined with other free custom resources) if that's what you have in mind, but I think there is little point - the games are so cheap to buy that just making proper full fan missions is a much better idea.

you probably could recreate Deep Cover in (Thief) NewDark, pretty sure the engine is capable enough. you just need a team of people to do the work - not an easy undertaking.

[66ee342ed6bb2ZylonBane]

Have you bothered reading the readme that comes with NewDark? IIRC it states exactly what it is

[66ee342ed6d7dicemann]

People still read the readme files?

[66ee342ed71e0Valet2]

CyrusVonNox2001
In 2012 some guy anonymously uploaded updated executables for all 3 Dark Engine games and the editor. Which allowed native support of modern hardware and systems, removed various restrictions and added script system for modders to use. Along several years this person provided further updates, and it seems he is aware of the current mods and user reviews. This update was called NewDark, and when NightDive re-released the game on Steam and GOG they have used the updated engine (which was polished by the forum's members).

Sadly, the guy never replied, even when NightDive tried to contact him several times to include the NewDark fixes to the Enhanced Edition port.

To the current date it's still unknown who he was, but I assume it's someone from the original programmers who had the source files and some free time.

[66ee342ed7384CyrusVonNox2001]

So like the Mysterious Stranger from Fallout, he appeared, did what he had to do, and dissappeared never intending to return.

Gee the Looking Glass/Immersive Sim Community is full of wierd characters huh.

Wouldn't be nuts if a bunch of users on on this site and TTLG formed a game studio and and made "System Shock 3" (emphesis on quotations)

But, to be completely honest, I read from wikipedia that the Dark engine was written in C++, which is the language I'm taking a class in right now! If I keep at it, and if Newdark is hopefully written in C++ as well, maybe I can become a modder like you guys.

[66ee342ed7489ZylonBane]

None of us mod by modifying the engine. The closest anyone comes to that is writing custom script modules, but with the integration of Squirrel, that's much less necessary now.

[66ee342ed7a53sarge945]

Wouldn't be nuts if a bunch of users on on this site and TTLG formed a game studio and and made "System Shock 3" (emphesis on quotations)

Certainly would be. Just don't look in my Unity projects folder.

None of us mod by modifying the engine. The closest anyone comes to that is writing custom script modules, but with the integration of Squirrel, that's much less necessary now.

Assuming osm gives a lot more access to the actual engine, some c++ knowledge might be useful to change things squirrel might not be able to.

I don't know anything about osm though.

[66ee342ed8388ZylonBane]

Wouldn't be nuts if a bunch of users on on this site and TTLG formed a game studio and and made "System Shock 3" (emphesis on quotations)

That was already tried about 10 years ago. It was called "Sapphire Scar". It failed.

[66ee342ed85d9MegaBrutal]

I'm also confused about NewDark. I know it was originally an unofficial build made by Le Corbeau which surfaced even before Night Dive Studios came around and re-released the game. But who's maintaining NewDark today? I mean, patches are still being pushed through Steam from time to time; are those still being made by Le Corbeau or Night Dive took over? Or is Le Corbeau simply a Night Dive employee? That would explain a lot.

[66ee342ed8768voodoo47]

it's the other way around - NDS could surface because ND came around.

the ND executables and dlls are sometimes updated and dropped off anonymously at that French Thief forum where the first zip was made available years ago. the steam patches are maintained by systemshock.org (gameplay and level fixes).

[66ee342ed88d3MegaBrutal]

WOW, Night Dive actually gave you permission to push Steam updates?

Then I think my concern is the same as it was 11 years ago. Le Corbeau apparently has the source code, but I'm not sure if Night Dive also has it, while they should to be able to maintain NewDark. If they don't and rely on Le Corbeau unofficially maintaining it, what if he just disappears forever and then no one will have access to the code? Though Night Dive is even planning a System Shock 2 Enhanced Edition (after the SS1 Remake), so I assume they know what they're doing, still it's strange that they're publishing the game with potentially not having the source.

[66ee342ed8a0fvoodoo47]

no, it's the other way around again, we have agreed they could use our fixes.

NDS do have some source code, but they are very secretive about it. and if ND suddenly disappears just like it appeared, well, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

[66ee342ed8b08ZylonBane]

SS2EE won't use NewDark. They're attempting to reverse engineer all the NewDark enhancements for the Kex port exactly because they (presumably) don't have the NewDark source.

[66ee342ed8da4icemann]

NDS do have some source code, but they are very secretive about it. and if ND suddenly disappears just like it appeared, well, we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

If anything was going to disappear in the future, I'd be betting on that being Night Dive itself, considering their take over by Atari. If you go by the history of takeovers, it nearly always ends the same. All just a matter of time.

[66ee342ed9039fox]

That was already tried about 10 years ago. It was called "Sapphire Scar". It failed.

20 years ago. Time flies.

[66ee342ed914evoodoo47]

I call this the old man 2x rule. basically, whatever number of years ago you are thinking, multiply it by 2 to get the actual number.