Tactical Combat Extreme Difficulty scp5 - Beta

[67311de610e79TheHEX]

extreme difficulty mod looking to slow down the gameplay and make it more scary, methodical, cautious, intense. im not entirely happy with it right now... i think its still too ez even though i die sometimes. when i come back, i fix the issue that i had that caused my death and then its easy again. i dont think i got hit once by a rumbler despite me multiplying their health by 3 or 4 times? id like some ppl to play through a game and give me feedback. thanks.

the goal of this mod is to bring back the old feeling of the game when i was a kid and it was scary. also, to slow down the gameplay speed and make it more of a methodical tactical shooting type cover based experience. no running and gunning and sidestrafing all of the enemies attacks effortlessly here. care must be taken to ensure you have the proper abilities activated. psi powers on, implant, armor, ammo, guns ready, and moving carefully to avoid being quickly killed.

makes the monsters much more dangerous by increasing their damage output, attack speed, projectile speed, accuracy, reaction speed, movement speed, etc. some enemies have more health, some have less health.

update: doubled midwife and assassin health. doubled baby spider movement speed.

[67311de611161voodoo47]

10 second check - why are sound files included, and again, the gamesys has 4500+ lines, you probably have tons and tons of redundant code there. mission dmls look a bit slimmer, but I bet it's the same.

and mission dmls are force adding additional/new AIProjectile links, are you really, really sure this is what you want to do? checked my explanation of how this works in your other topic?

[67311de6112c6TheHEX]

oops dont know why its in recreation deck.

the sounds are for difficulty. i have muted most of the assassins sounds except his footsteps and pain/death so you dont know where they are.

so with the gamesys, i copy pasted everything i changed but also things i might change and i also use lots of enters and lines to organize everything so i can quickly scroll past it.

as far as new projectile links, i dont want to spend the time to delete the plus signs or whatever right now because i have already played this through on hard twice or more and its behaving as expected so i dont see any need. what are the foreseen negative consequences of force adding new projectile links? shooting a shitload of stuff at the player? heheh

[67311de61145dvoodoo47]

the negative consequences of heheh I'm not quite sure what I'm doing is having the mod stuck over at Engineering (the work-in-progress place) until it's updated to be in a ohhoh now I actually do state.

this isn't NexusMods, to have the mod moved to the mods subforum, certain quality standards need to be met. pretty sure a 4500+ line gamesys dml would not qualify.

[67311de6115feTheHEX]

wait... are you actually able to answer my question or just be a sarcastic rude condescending piece of shit?... as usual

also.. do you have any legitimate reason to block me from adding this to the mods section when its... completed? having additional entries in the gamesys which i intentionally placed there so that i may easily edit the game, does not constitute "broken". your unnecessary unjustifiable gatekeeping and constant disparaging of my modding efforts is really tiresome and counterproductive.

and do you realize how stupid it is to constantly talk about how many lines the file has when i have told you.. and you have seen for yourself.. that i use large blank spots and lines of equal signs as spacers and for organization? it makes no sense. unless you're trying to tell me i cant make spacers in my gamesys... which is insane. did you like... get rejected from a police academy or something? you're starting to seem unhinged to me. on some kind of retarded pissing contest or power trip.

and what is this shit at the top of the page now? are you inserting personal attacks against me on your website now?

[67311de611734voodoo47]

ok, let's set the funnies aside for now.

this is standard process - nobody is allowed to post mods just like that, they have to be checked by a senior forum member first. if the mod is loading properly, not crashing the game, and doing what the author describes, then, and only then it's moved to the mods subforum.

so if you insist the mod is ready to go, then sure, I'll take a full look a bit later and see whether this is in a releasable state.


also no idea what do you mean by something at the top of the page.

[67311de611e9bZylonBane]

also no idea what do you mean by something at the top of the page.

Fecking lol, I bet he saw his name in the random message and thought it was some custom insult crafted just for him. The persecution complex is strong in this one.

the sounds are for difficulty. i have muted most of the assassins sounds except his footsteps and pain/death so you dont know where they are.

If all you want to do is silence an AI's idle barks, just add AI Core/Broadcast Customization to it and deactivate the alert zero/one/two broadcasts. Stomping on asset files should be a last resort.

so with the gamesys, i copy pasted everything i changed but also things i might change and i also use lots of enters and lines to organize everything so i can quickly scroll past it.

as far as new projectile links, i dont want to spend the time to delete the plus signs or whatever

Here's what you're not getting: The entire point of DMLs is to change ONLY the specific things needed to make a mod work, so the mod will be more likely to properly interoperate with other mods.

You're currently shotgunning so much default data into the gamesys that you may as well just be distributing the gamesys itself.

[67311de61221bTheHEX]

ZylonBane
so you call everyone on the site names randomly? interesting.

"just delete the sounds in a much more complex way even though there are no negative consequences to muting the sounds"

logic please?

yea well maybe some time when i dont consider it a TESTING BETA as i fucking said in the message... (reading comprehension?) THEN i will take the precious time to delete some fucking spacer lines and plus signs that have not negatively impacted the gameplay in 2 or more test playthroughs? sound good guys? k thx.

it doesnt even matter though because they could just load another mod on top if they wanted and overwrite any of the default info contained in my mod.

why dont u 2 make yourselves useful for once and playtest it and post feedback.

[67311de6123ebicemann]

[67311de6126c0sarge945]

Running a testing beta is pointless because you will need to remove 3/4 of the redundant DML to release it, which will require another round of testing anyway.

The reason why stomping on asset files is a last resort is because it makes the mod fundamentally incompatible with any other mod that edits asset files. Not to mention, if someone wants to use your mod, but doesn't want the silent assassins, it's much easier to edit a few lines of DML than it is to go hunting down which sound is which.

PLEASE, for the love of god, listen to the senior members here and stop acting like everyone is out to get you. ZB may be an ass but he also knows what he's doing when it comes to SS2 modding.

[67311de6128a7Join2]

Isn't modding this game pretty goddamn hard on a technical level relative to most other games? Leave OP be. He said he is done, and if it passes the stated criteria of "it works and does what it says it does", then that is all that should matter.

Sorry, just getting deja vu from when attempting to release a huge mod in the past and getting jumped for not including optimized compatibility, which would have only been achievable by sacrificing the mod's most important feature and nor did I care for optimal compatibility anyway. It was a huge mod with a very specific vision, and designed disregarding full compatibility from the start, like 70% of my mods (making yuge mods is time-consuming enough as it is + extensive specific vision = go away). If people don't like that, simply don't play it.

Just be sure to state compatibility is low and in which ways.

[67311de612c18TheHEX]

sarge945
no im not talking about testing for bugs im talking testing for balance and gameplay dynamics.

it is very easy for someone to delete the snd folder in the mod.

they are out to get me but its ok. he keeps shifting the goalposts every time i respond. now its not picking at dumb stuff about my mod like spacers and the amount of lines of text which would remain static by the way i would simply block everything unused off with // for possible future edits... but now hes saying he does the same thing for all mods um no. im the only person that gets all my shit moved into engineering for no legitimate reason other than the fact that he hates what i do with my mod and how i change the game, probably.

"the gamesys has 4500+ lines, you probably have tons and tons of redundant code there. mission dmls look a bit slimmer, but I bet it's the same.
and mission dmls are force adding additional/new AIProjectile links. , to have the mod moved to the mods subforum, certain quality standards need to be met. pretty sure a 4500+ line gamesys dml would not qualify."

" they have to be checked by a senior forum member first. if the mod is loading properly, not crashing the game, and doing what the author describes, then, and only then it's moved to the mods subforum."

notice the difference.

he might have realized how absurd it is to try to dictate to someone how many lines of text can be in their dml within reason.... he might have a point if it took 5 minutes to load the text file.

[67311de6131f8sarge945]

Isn't modding this game pretty goddamn hard on a technical level relative to most other games?

Squirrel? Maybe. DML? Absolutely not. DML is extremely easy. Even a Javascript or Python programmer could learn it.

Sorry, just getting deja vu from when attempting to release a huge mod in the past and getting jumped for not including optimized compatibility, which would have only been achievable by sacrificing the mod's most important feature and nor did I care for optimal compatibility anyway.

Compatibility helps everyone, and other mods are not going to be able to do as much unless every mod conforms to some basic standards. It's simple code hygiene that benefits everyone. Someone pointing out potential compatibility improvements isn't "getting jumped", neither is a mod needing to conform to a basic set of sanity checks. This goes doubly so when the average person will judge their experience based on picking and choosing random mods to run together. They won't read compatibility warnings, nor will they read readme files. Then, when a mod breaks a feature of a different mod due to compatibility, the other modder will receive unnecessary bug reports.

Making your projects compatible with others isn't just some nuisance requirement, nor is it an unreasonable standard. It's basic courtesy to other mod makers, and to players who want to be able to run multiple mods together without their game imploding in unexpected and difficult to debug ways.

Could ZB and Voodoo be less rude? Probably. But we can't just have massive sprawling DML mods on here, for various reasons, and "just release it as-is" isn't really a viable option. Removing redundancies in DML isn't difficult (even if it's slightly tedious), and is just one extra step that mod makers should do. I do it, everyone else does it, why should anyone else be exempt, especially if it means their mod is going to break things?

[67311de613414Join2]

"nor is it an unreasonable standard"

Yes it is.

1. Nowhere demands compatibility between mods as a requirement.
2. Sometimes a mod is designed to be it's own standalone thing.
3. It can be a lot of work, depending on the size of the mod and other factors.
4. It may not even be possible in some circumstances. This was the case for all of my mods with incompatibility.
5. I think you may be overlooking the fact that creating the mod in the first place may have been a monumental task for the individual. Not all modders are programmers by trade, just hobbyists.
6. Time is precious. Modding takes a lot of time. Even more so if entirely fresh-faced.

"and is just one extra step that mod makers should do. I do it, everyone else does it, why should anyone else be exempt,"

If it's really easy and quick, then sure whatever, it may not be a big ask of people. Nonetheless I feel sorry for OP getting jumped like this. And he has been "jumped". Unless I missed earlier context (I don't drop in here often), this is poor handling of a new member and modder to the community. Completely innocent contribution met with unnecessary rudeness. Though his reaction was even more extreme.

Eh whatever, internet will continue on internetting. Congrats on the release OP.

[67311de613859voodoo47]

a lot of things that are just incorrect

ok, let me clarify how this works to clear all potential future misunderstandings - if a regular forum member posts a mod, it will get moved to Recreation automatically. for it to be declared good to go, and moved to the mods subforum, it needs to be checked by a senior forum member, who will make sure it loads without errors, is not crashing the game, and is doing what is intended. if it's fine, the mod is moved to the mods subforum. if issues are found, the mod is moved to Engineering, and the author is advised to sort them out.


yes, I have quickly used the gameys dml size to gauge whether the mod is good to go or not. and I still stand by this, if you have more than four thousand lines there, it's either the scope of the mod is insane, or you are not doing it right. I kind of think it's the latter, but don't worry, if I dive in and find out it's actually the former, an apology will be issued, I have no problem with that.

so in your case, if the mod is found to meet the absolute minimum that would qualify it to be moved to the mods subforum, then it will be moved there, but as Join2 stated, a low compatibility warning will be added, most likely.


also no, nobody is out to get you, if someone were, you'd be out a long time ago. and the sarcasm started with your responses to the first batch of recommendations (which were absolutely neutral, ok this doesn't seem to be working properly, try this, do that) - yeah, you go lololol everyone else is wrong my stuff is great, you will get sarcasm, standard forum policy.

[67311de613be2sarge945]

Here are just some examples of actual issues that are going to crop up as a result of this DML:

- This mod is incompatible with Heavily Tweaked because it sets the grenade launcher to require Heavy of 1 (default), whereas Heavily Tweaked sets it to 6. With proper DML, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to use these mods together.
- This mod is incompatible with RSD for the same reasons it's incompatible with Heavily Tweaked.
- This mod is incompatible with any mod that changes weapon stats
- This mod is incompatible with any mod that changes enemy stats, even slightly.
- This mod is likely going to be VERY incompatible with SCP b6 and will require a complete rebuild when SCP b6 comes out officially, or in the best case, will have relatively minor (but still significant) unintended reversions and changes from SCP b6.

This mod also has some undocumented features that aren't in the readme, such as:

Many weapon requirements changed:
- Fusion Cannon requires Heavy of 3, STR of 6 and END of 6
- Assault Rifle requires END of 2, STR of 2, and 3 STD (dunno why you would want to make the AR even more accessible AND gain the benefits of scaling from higher STD levels, since it's already extremely overpowered)
- Grenade Launcher requires STR of 2, END of 2
- Worm Launcher requires Exotic of 3.
- Electro Shock only requires Energy of 1

And much more.

This DML is essentially a soup, and it's hard to tell what's intentionally changed and what is unintentionally copy pasted there, because nothing is documented. This is going to be a huge mess to both understand and maintain, both for the mod author and for everyone else trying to understand what the mod actually changes from SCP b5. When SCP b6 comes out, it will be even harder because there will be no way to tell what is intentionally changed vs what is simply different on account of SCP b6 changing archetypes, resulting in different values in the DML because they are based off SCP b5 values.

One of the major reasons why the Randomiser required no changes between SCP b4 and SCP b5 was because barely anything was touched in the DML, other than a few minor changes to existing objects (like adding physics to audio logs). Had I simply copy-pasted large segments of DML it would have been an absolute nightmare to update because it touches almost every object in the game in some form.

We aren't just telling you this to bully you. We are telling you this because at the end of the day the moderators here have to curate this mod collection, and we can't have everything breaking the moment something updates (especially SCP), or have random incompatibilities between everything, because it will cause no end of problems for everybody. If you don't have the ability (or the desire) to fix your mod compatibility before releasing it, perhaps it would be wise to listen rather than defensively lashing out against any and all valid criticism so that you don't make this same mistake next time.

[67311de613d0eTheHEX]

Look at this point i just want some ppl to play test it and give feedback because i feel like it's still too easy mostly. And leave it in engineering until i delete the scp5 data from the dml and finish my tweaking. All of this discussion is moot because mods not even done by my own standards. Problem is people won't really help me implement some of the changes i want

[67311de613e7dvoodoo47]

funnily enough, the gamesys dml making the mod incompatible with pretty much all that exists is not really a reason to reject the mod - as previously stated, managing (in)compatibility with other mods is completely up to the author, so if he is ok with the current state of affairs (this will almost inevitable push the mod into obscurity, as people want to run multiple mods almost always), then sure, his choice.

that however cannot be said about his attempt to modify already existing links on the map concretes, as mentioned, instead of modifying the links, the maps dmls are force-adding new ones. this clearly violates the "mod must do what is intended" rule.

so as far as I'm concerned, the mod is staying here until this is fixed. once it is, then we'll see.

[67311de614019TheHEX]

Why can't i add new projectiles though i already tested it

My current problems with this mod or with system shock 2 that i would like to change but can't:

Rumblers are a joke. I gave them 4x health and they are less of a joke now but they seem to tank grenades and the shotgun or ar seen much more effective in killing them then grenades. I don't think i ever actually got hit by a rumbler in multiple games. Maybe i should make them shoot worms out lol.

Grenades are just weird in vanilla and almost useless. Will probably increase their damage

Sometimes the enemies won't shoot me and just walk towards me instead. Sometimes they don't want to shoot at long range and my attempts at altering their ranged attack behavior proved ineffective

I absolutely hate that the shotgun mod is negating it's recoil. I wanted to make the shotguns recoil very heavy to balance out it's high damage but i can't

When i try to blow up piles of grubs it only blows a few of them up even though i increased the grenades splash range

All i can think of for now

[67311de614265voodoo47]

well, if you are not happy with the mod, then feel free to continue working on it.

Why can't i add new projectiles though i already tested it

yes, this will not crash the game or anything, it is however not what the mod should be doing - if the intention was to modify the projectile links so that the projectiles would pose more of a threat to the player, then that is what should be happening there. so edit links, not add new ones. I gave you an example of the proper code in the other topic.

[67311de614465TheHEX]

so what is the implication that they will shoot slow projectiles and also new fast ones or what? i only observed them shooting new ones so i still dont see the issue. if theyre only doing what i want which is shooting fast projectiles why would i increase my work load to change it when its already doing what i want. i still dont get the reason.

is there a way for rumblers to drop worms or shoot them out WHILE running towards the player and melee attacking?

[67311de6146fevoodoo47]

yes, that should be doable (assuming the rumbler attack messages can be intercepted and used to trigger the worm drop), but that is not going to be easy, prepare to get into scripting.

i still dont see the issue

yes, that's the problem right there, you do not. or don't want to. so again, you should not be adding additional projectile links to the AI concretes. just like you shouldn't be spawning them upside down. some things are just bad practice, and should be avoided, even though they aren't crashing the game right away.

[67311de614817ZylonBane]

"I poured hydrochloric acid down a clogged drain and it cleared it right up! What do you mean I shouldn't do that? It worked fine!"

[67311de614932voodoo47]

I'll offer some practical advice - every single dumb thing I did in the past when constructing mods, came back to bite me later in some shape of form, and I had to redo it right. do you really want to learn this the hard way?