Vurt's Thief 2 Graphics Overhaul

[677edd2d4e656voodoo47]

Nexus.. don't see why anyone wouldn't be registered there

this old man hates to be forced to register. but fine, they can have my underpants size if they really want. or rather, my tertiary mail address I use to buy shady things from china. //yeah they are not liking it, bloody clowns. I'm seriously thinking going meltmail on them.

Trees and stuff? no it's the same as the old pack. what problems did you have, i've had no reports of issues since its release. those files can easily be removed by the user though, it's as simple as not including the .bin's.

this was so very long time ago. I'll check, if the objects stray too far away from the originals, I would recommend splitting the mod into two - textures and objects, so the user can manage this in the modmanager, but we'll see.

Yes i can look at Thief 1 too, i currently don't own it i think, maybe on GoG, i will check.. but it's probably cheap to buy.

excellent. one buck for the next two days on GOG. ping me your GOG id if you want it gift-wrapped.

[677edd2d4e989vurt]

So someone on r/Thief told me the rounded tree(i think he means) is climbable, and because of my model (way more advanced) it likely won't be possible. So that could be an issue. I'll take a look at that. I don't remember it being climbable, but it's been so many years since i played Thief 2 all the way through (was planning to do it, and then i started modding it instead, which so often happens with me...)

I hate registering too, but it's probably not more than 20 seconds of work, less work than for me to google other sites to upload to + it likely will be the usual "fishy" sites with 5 download buttons and just one downloads the actual mod.. No such thing on NexusMods.

I'll get it on GoG then, thanks for the offer though 

[677edd2d4ec2dvoodoo47]

yeah, had to feed them a gmail address.. annoying. anyway, time to get this party started;

- RustsGr.dds and Rusts.dds (in obj txt and txt16) crash the game when trying to enter the Bank level loadout screen. iirc no dds for any object that can appear in the loadout menu (considering some fan missions use other additional vanilla objects there, it's probably no dds for objects at all, if you want to save yourself headaches further down the road).
- the new leafy objects have sorting issues (chroma alpha keying needs to be set in the mtl I think, ZB will probably know off the top of his head).
- candle objects missing vhots (and generally don't seem to be an improvement, probably just replace with the already available hires vhotted models from EP2/NecroAge. will link).
- some doors and other objects have old textures still. some walls too.
- a lot of shimmering on some world textures (checked NecroAge just in case this is some general hires texture problem, but no issue there).
- the zip has an extra folder inside so the modmanager won't load it properly (resources should be directly inside the archive).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vKuoOV0W64
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[677edd2d4ee03vurt]

yes, i've never claimed all textures are done or that the mod itself is done. To my knowledge there's never been such a mod, if there is, the likelihood of all texture really being "new" is close to none since its such a massive task, it will be some lame upscale on many of those, especially textures that would be hard to source from anywhere.

The mod is version v0.9 which means it's not done and i doubt i'll ever get around to do every single texture, sorry.

For me the bank level loads just fine, i've checked all levels to see that they load and i've also played them, though not entirely yet.
Strange that it doesn't work for you. 

I've noticed some weirdness of the leafy stuff but it's not so bad that i've really cared to look into it, yet. I'll take a look.

Yeah, the candles have to go then, didn't see that issue, thanks!

Shimmering, can you provide a save where this happens? Not seen it. Some bugs can absolutely be happening for all users, but this is not always the case because of drivers, windows and whatnot.. PC gaming in a nutshell... as a modder i run into that all the time with my mods.

[677edd2d4ef73voodoo47]

no problem.

yes, I was just about to say (after checking the models in the editor) that the easiest way is to just kick the candle models out of the package (candle1.bin completely broken, TrCandle.bin is inferior to what already is in T2Fix, canhold.bin ditto).

shimmering is very apparent on the ground texture at the beginning of the Shipping level, the youtube vid shows it nicely but you need to select hd resolution.

the flora sorting issues can be fixed, but still, I would recommend it to be a standalone mod (Vurt's T2 Flora), because unless reworked completely, it will inevitably cause issues as it's not 1:1.


can someone else check the Bank level crash (I can pop the zip into my gdrive temp folder if nexus registration is a no go)? but either way, no dds for object textures is still a good idea, probably.

[677edd2d4f0ebvurt]

ah, you mean that kind of shimmering, its due to lack of mipmaps. Not really a bug or anything i can do apart from of course making a texture where it's less visible. This is also a bit user dependent, for me i don't get that type of shimmering at all there, maybe due to my resolution in the game or its something else (some aliasing setting or whatever?)

I can also try generating mipmaps for it, sometimes it does seem to work, for whatever reason. I think NewDark is supposed to make its own mipmaps (and why you shouldn't make them), but this is beyond my expertise.

Yeah i can make the models a separate download. Probably a good idea.

"object textures" what is that more exactly?

[677edd2d4f249voodoo47]

textures under obj/txt or obj/txt16, that's where object textures are stored.

about the shimmering, maybe just copy whatever EP2 and NecroAge did there? as those don't seem to have the issue at all. because for me, the shimmering is bad. nauseatingly bad. Necro Asfalt attached.

//blin.mtl wrong encoding, editor is throwing tantrum about it. should be ANSI like the rest of the mtls there.
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[677edd2d4f34evurt]

edit: ok, misunderstood what you meant with txt/txt16 and format.

i let chatgpt take a look at that .dds, it says it has a whole 11 mipmaps.. so it's a texture, that for whatever reason, can have mipmaps.

[677edd2d4f46fvoodoo47]

no, what I'm saying is the obj textures (probably) should use some other texture format, not dds (png? need to verify with NV or ZB. looking at NecroAge, it's a mixture of gif, png and dds textures, probably for that very reason, lets wait and see).

NecroAge flora is sorting properly, checking what has been done there. //the leafy textures need to have force_alpha_key in their mtls.

[677edd2d4f566vurt]

i see, i can easily convert them to .tga. png would kind of suck, because i don't think its .png with transparency which is supported..

[677edd2d4f6a0voodoo47]

yes, tgas should also be fine. the leafy textures need to have force_alpha_key in their mtls, then they will sort properly. there is a tradeoff - the edges will be sharp, afaik no way around this, either proper sorting and sharp edges, or bad sorting and soft edges.

well, there is a way, but you would have to split the tree object into two - the trunk and the leaves, then set the mod up to replace the original object with just the trunk and then the trunk needs to be script set to spawn the leafy bits upon level start. choose your poison wisely.

[677edd2d4f7cevurt]

ok, i'll do that (.tga's) for txt/TXT16 + edit .mtl's for v0.9a. Thanks!

can someone confirm that trees can't really be added because there are portions of the game where you need to climb them?? or is it more like you need to drop down on them? I can't seem to climb the round small trees (not using my mod to test this, obviously), but maybe it is added for certain levels, if it is, i wonder if it works with my new model or not...

[677edd2d4f910vurt]

I guess i'll also try The Black Parade, just to see how it works with mods.

Might try adding a bit of transparency to windows. Not fully transparent, just slightly.. i did it to a blood texture and it works pretty well.

One issue with windows is how repeating they look, with a bit of transparency i think that could resolve it somewhat. The issue is though, there are SO many windows.. it might not really change anything either, because many times there won't be something behind it.

[677edd2d4fb6avoodoo47]

can someone confirm that trees can't really be added because there are portions of the game where you need to climb them??

the phys object is what matters here, and your mod does not change that, so while the new tree might look not climbable, it still should be, as the actual physical dimensions are unchanged. so whoever told you that, is probably just wrong/was experiencing an unrelated issue.

speaking of trees, tree03 is ok, tree01 seems completely busted, and tree02 is missing completely.

[677edd2d4fe35ZylonBane]

- the new leafy objects have sorting issues (chroma keying needs to be set in the mtl I think, ZB will probably know off the top of his head).

Alpha test, not chroma key.

Textures with transparency in objects should only use one-bit alpha. The only exception is if the object is a surface decal.

Textures with one-bit transparency should automatically render in alpha test mode.

[677edd2d4ff7bvoodoo47]

yes, I got it right when I checked the Necro mtls (force_alpha_key). not sure from where I remembered chroma (oooh I know, that old Incubation 3dfx banner, was thinking a new playthrough is due. the glide wrapper had an issue with chroma keying, resulting in the banner not being transparent where it should. chaos head).

any input on the loadout screen object texture format? pretty sure there were some major don'ts, because of how that screen is rendered.

[677edd2d501e6vurt]

the phys object is what matters here, and your mod does not change that, so while the new tree might look not climbable, it still should be, as the actual physical dimensions are unchanged. so whoever told you that, is probably just wrong/was experiencing an unrelated issue.

speaking of trees, tree03 is ok, tree01 seems completely busted, and tree02 is missing completely.

I'll take a look at that, not sure why they suddenly wouldn't work, but maybe something changed with newdark in all these years.. the .bin files are from 2012.

He didn't test to climb the tree, he just said it might not work because the model is different. Then i bet it'll work, thanks.

[677edd2d503eevoodoo47]

sure. what will happen there is that if the original tree was lets say, 2 meters tall, and was set to climbable, with its physbox also being 2 meters tall, the player would look at it and think heeey this is mantleable I bet, attempt to mantle and succeed. if your not 1:1 model will make the tree 4 meters high, and full of barbs, then it will look not mantleable, but hiding behind that exterior is still just your friendly 2 meter physbox that will allow the player to climb it, and clip into the extra 2 meters of the new model happily.

tree1 looks like it's missing its leafy branch textures (only got white rectangles), or they are not being loaded properly. //model points to v_Appbranch.dds which simply does not exist.

edited the model to load some random branches, here's an example of how it works - original tree on the screenshot, climbable, and the replacement model on the video, also climbable in the same way, because I'm still climbing the same physical object, despite all the branches in my face. shows nicely why the replacement model ideally should have (roughly) the same dimensions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vp47MHsV6O4
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[677edd2d504e5ZylonBane]

Ah, mantling, not climbing. I was confused by these last few posts because I've never encountered a tree in Thief set to behave like a ladder.

[677edd2d505eevoodoo47]

technically it's mantling, but in RL you would climb a tree, not mantle it, unless it's a stump of a very specific size and height. or has large almost horizontal branches.

trees are weird (also the way a very tall tree manages to get water all the way up to its top is quite insane).

[677edd2d506f9vurt]

could you give me a save of that location with the tree? e.g email it or something ? that would be super helpful. vurt72 at gmail.com

Again, i know it comes off as being really lazy, but the mod really takes up all of my time as it is.

[677edd2d5082bvoodoo47]

the broken tree01? literally just run through the first few rooms of the TG training to get there in 2 mins, but sure, quicksave attached (goes into TG\Saves). should work out of the box on your freshly purchased GOG TG, but would recommend patching with TFix full just to be sure.

the way I see the tree01 model, it probably should just not be included. it's completely off (unlike the tree03 model, which is fine even though it's not 1:1).
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[677edd2d50913vurt]

Great, thanks!

edit: Ah, TG, so Thief Gold.. Strange that it even loaded. i just fall off a map lol

[677edd2d50b45ZylonBane]

the way I see the tree01 model, it probably should just not be included. it's completely off (unlike the tree03 model, which is fine even though it's not 1:1).

Internal name notwithstanding, it's really more of a shrub. All those gardeners in the Thief universe put a lot of effort into trimming them into that shape.