Vurt's Thief 2 Graphics Overhaul

[677edee15c5cbvoodoo47]

in 1999, it might as well have been a blob of green cotton candy.

Strange that it even loaded. i just fall off a map lol

yeah not going to work with T2, obviously.

lets see what NecroBob did with those models. that. ok I guess.
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[677edee15c884voodoo47]

ok, good progress on the last package (0.9b);

- no more loadout screen crashes.
- more flora fixed.
- no more shimmering on the asphalt texture.
- extra folder removed from the archive so modmanager now loads the mod directly.
- broken candle models removed.

ok, so lets continue;

- fungball.bin (frob-destroyable mushroom) was removed, while not exactly true to vanilla, the model looked ok, and was in sync with the other mushroom model, now that it's gone, we have upgraded mushrooms sitting next to unupgraded mushrooms, pretty much the least ideal situation. would recommend shrinking the model some and adding it back. making a proper puffball model would be even better.
- more flora needs force_alpha_key in the leafy bit texture mtls. I'll take a guess here and say that unless the entire model is a single flat plant texture like the wall vine, it will need force_alpha_key on the leafy parts to avoid transparency issues.
- consider some replacements for tree01-03, they will stick out as a sore thumb if left vanilla. maybe uhh, borrow them from the NecroAge pack (and your tree03 model was actually fine after force_alpha_key).
- whatever was done to the latest version of the asphalt texture helped, and should be applied, well, pretty much everywhere else. I'll say this without any sugarcoating, the shimmer needs to go, else people will be noping out.

one small niggle to wrap it up - the install instructions (of any new mod) should mention the TFix/T2Fix modmanager first, and manual install second. we really want to promote safe tools now that we finally have them available, not potentially scare away people who are bad at editing config files.

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[677edee15cbe2vurt]

Good feedback, thanks. I don't think i realized i removed fungball.bin, oops. I'll check the .mtl's too. I thought i had fixed all, but i also remember i reverted back at one point for some files so it likely got added back in there.

I'll do a test to see if the game crashes if i add mipmaps back to all .dds files. I hope chatgpt can make a script for that, pretty tedious.. what resolution are you using to get that much shimmering though? I get basically none. But since at least one more commented on it i guess people are still using low resolutions (1080p).

The trees are a bit a of bummer indeed, i'll see what can be done, i'm probably not gonna use some other mods trees though.

The grass texture needs some fixing too... sometimes it looks like the grass is seen from the side, depends on where you stand, so it's weird.

What's the official link i should use for the T2 mod loader so that i can link / advertise it?

[677edee15cd37voodoo47]

WUXGA, so 1920x1200, because nothing I do is normal. and yes, still a lot of shimmer on some level textures, the grass in the first level for example.

did a few edits to my previous post - as far as tree01-03 go, maybe just recycle your tree03 model which was fine after getting the force_alpha_key treatment.

you probably just should link TFix/T2Fix (getting the modmanager exe and popping it into an unpatched Thief install is not exactly recommended), or even better, the TTLG mod sticky.

[677edee15ce59vurt]

Mission 3 will just crash the game if i add mipmaps to all .dds files.

I'll let chatgpt make a script that checks some other T2 texture mod that has mipmaps and then tell me exactly what is going on, which folder has them or which files didn't have them etc. It's really a God sent thing for modding sometimes.. at least for me who can't program for shit..

ok, i'll link that, thanks.

[677edee15cf59voodoo47]

yes, as mentioned, just copying whatever EP2 and NecroAge are doing with the FAM textures would be fine. lets try to ping @Nameless Voice here.

[677edee15d043voodoo47]

oh, and if you are doing any TG exclusive assets, they go into the Thief1 folder (which needs to be right in the zip, so Thief1\fam etc).

[677edee15d1a8vurt]

its strange that these other texture packs has folders like Opera, sewer, quite a few others... never seen those folders in the .crf's that i have for Thief 2, so no clue what they're supposed to represent in the game.

the script chatgpt did found quite a few textures that didn't have mipmaps in the texture pack i tested (Thief 2 HD Mod 1.0, which seems to be the most popular on NexusMods). I can not figure out why, it's not like i can see a pattern. i'm out of credits now for chatgpt so i can try something else tomorrow where it compares stuff perhaps, likely i can tell it to just look at their folders and apply it to my files when needed (when my files differs).

[677edee15d316voodoo47]

poking around the files;

- barebrch.tga seems.. broken.
- confirmed following mtls as needing force_alpha_key;
barebrch.mtl
falbrch.mtl
sprbrch.mtl
v_branch.mtl
v_bush.mtl
v_mapleaf.mtl
v_mapleaf2.mtl
v_pleaves.mtl
v_snbranch3.mtl
and very sure there will be more.
- something is not right with VINLEAF.tga, the plants have holes and extra bits if it's in use (pic).
- you will need a gamesys.dml to repel the transparency being forced by other mods, attached (goes into root). might need more archetypes included, we'll see.
- blin.mtl still wrong encoding, fixed file attached.

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[677edee15d456vurt]

Great!

I figured out what the issue was with level 3. The engine can only handle so many 2048 textures, if there are too many the game can either crash or texture will start blinking, get white and change its texture and other weirdness.

barebrch.tga yes, fixed it. thanks.

the leaf, no idea, looks good in the places i've seen it. odd..

[677edee15d760voodoo47]

it actually also looks bad on the big plant, bit less bad but there should be no splits anywhere.

it's like the replacement texture is too small, and unable to cover the actual model, leaving some parts open because that bit of the new texture is transparent even though it should still be leafy.

The engine can only handle so many 2048 textures

aha, so that's why the recommendation to not go above 1024 unless absolutely unavoidable. again, EP2 and NecroAge probably can serve as a template.
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[677edee15d89avurt]

that will happen with 2D planes, from certain angles it will not be visible. but it's also likely i will have to move the small part where it connects to the plant so that the UV-mapping gets a bit better, i will check that. Thanks

edit: yes, the original doesn't even have an alpha channel its just a big green plane so i can see how parts are missing.

[677edee15d995voodoo47]

well, the model is ok with the vanilla texture.. lets see.. yes, that is exactly it.
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[677edee15da68vurt]

yeah, i'll do another leaf with no alpha channel.

[677edee15db85voodoo47]

yes, that should fix those two plants.

also, as the flora is getting fixed slowly but surely, I'll walk back on the recommendation to split the mod into two. will be just fine as one if the issues are ironed out.

[677edee15dd27ZylonBane]

Throwing 2K textures at Thief? Yikes. In SHTUP even for the skyboxes I "only" used 1K resolution panels and it looks perfectly fine. In 400, 99% of the textures don't exceed 512x512.

2K for anything sounds like resolution just for the sake of resolution, especially in games this old. It's not like players are going to accept the low-poly everything, but then walk away in rage because they can barely discern a pixel in a texture.

[677edee15de61vurt]

If i get around it i can always do a 1K version, it's usually what i do with my mods anyways.

Obviously i'm not doing 2K because i believe anyone would rage over not having a 2K texture here and there, i make them because it simply gives at least a bit better quality, at least its something in a game where other stuff might not always look great. Maybe not everyone cares, but i do and i do know a lot of people appreciate high res textures, this from doing these kinds of mods for 15 years.

[677edee15df73voodoo47]

well, it's not like you have much of a choice if you are hitting the engine/map limits.

any idea which model uses v_snbranch.tga and v_sn2branch.tga? probably force_alpha_key too. //yes. v_asp.tga, v_sqbranch.tga, v_fir.tga, v_fir2.tga too. updates to the gamesys needed, attached.
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[677edee15e0c6vurt]

I just have to keep an eye out, make sure the levels loads and that graphics aren't corrupted. it's mainly stuff like windows and doors i wanted to have in 2K, stuff you get really close to, it's probably not too many out of the 1500 textures, maybe 200'ish or so.

2048 textures are not exactly what we call hi-res these days, not for a big surface like a door. If you make a 2048 texture for a small vase we are talking about hi-res in a way that might be pushing it to an idiotic degree almost.. Big surfaces like walls, doors, 4K is good, 2K is decent, lower and it's pretty noticeable that it's lacking in detail.

I've forced it on all the nature / branches textures with alpha.

[677edee15e261voodoo47]

eeh I would avoid forcing it on all the flora, the standalone branches that are its own object don't need it, and will look slightly worse because of it. so for example, seqbrch1 won't need it.

I'll sift through it slowly.


but to make it short, it's pretty much this - as far as I can tell, single flat texture standalone branch/leaf objects do not need force_alpha_key, everything else does (branches attached to trunks, shrubs consisting of multiple flat textures etc). and if force_alpha_key is set, the archetype and all of its parent archetypes must NOT have any transparency set (hence, the gamesys dml).

as far as the tree01-03 situation goes, yeah, maybe just restore tree03, use the model for tree01 and tree02 as well, adjust the texture color to resemble the vanilla 01 and 02 model and call it good.


//a new texture for the EyeballPlant is in obj\txt16, but the model doesn't seem to be using it?

[677edee15e3edvurt]

i checked the vines, they look 100% the same with it forced. but yeah, like you say, it's probably not needed. i just didn't want to think about if something was layered or not so i used it for all nature alpha textures.

yes, eyeplant.bin isn't in use any longer because that model didn't move like the original. Maybe i'll take a look at models as well later on..

[677edee15e57fvoodoo47]

ok, but the old model still could take the new texture? //yeah, loads ok after renaming it to eyeball.tga, though the texture has a weird cut at the top part that could use fixing. if you still have the non-moving hires model somewhere, post it, Olfred may be able to fix it.

yes, forced on all flora should be fine, if you don't want to sweat the details, definitely less risk than not doing any. also, VINLEAF will not need it as its transparency is getting removed, but you probably know that.

guess I'll wait for 0.9c, and then we'll see.

[677edee15e6dfvurt]

its made for a completely round eye, not the octagon-like original one.

Here's the model if @Olfred can take a look at it
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[677edee15e7e7voodoo47]

and here is the original - I'm guessing it has those odd turret joints, which did not get transplanted to the new model, hence, no movement.
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