Opinions on the different versions of System Shock 2? Which one do you prefer?

[678b5b12add80Brisk]

So I initially played System Shock 2 doing a single playthrough for the first time around 2004 directly from a physical disc copy after having played the first game in the late 90's on DOS. Then in 2014 or 2015 I noticed both games were available for sale on GOG. I ended up purchasing them both for a few bucks during a sale since I left a lot of my belongings at my parents place when I moved out to another state a decade prior. I played the first game almost immediately and rememeber that the version GOG had at the time was playable but kind of a broken mess with keybind issues/crashes above a certain resolution despite being available in the game settings. At the time I had the intention of  playing the second game right afterwards but life happened and then when I did have time again it fell down the priotiy list ultimately being overlooked. Fast forward to present day and I want to play both games again. I always do a little bit of research before either playing an old game after several years or for the first time to see what mods/source ports/quality of life features are available. I came across the “SS2 newbie modding guide” thread here. Upon checking my GOG account it appears that the latest update of System Shock 2 was back in 2018. I also noticed that since I had purchased both games previously that the “Enhanced Edition” Nightdive rereleases were added to my games list as well. Now I have already decided that I will play the “Enhanced Edition” of the first game for the reasons previously mentioned but the second game I'm unsure about. Upon further review it appears that many of the enhancement mods recommended in the System Shock 2 guide I cited were actually used with permission for the Nightdive “Enhanced Edition”?...

So my question now is, would you preferably play a modded 2018 version of System Shock 2 or the new enhanced Edition? What are the differences?

Installing both and playing half way through to find out and decide really isn't ideal.

Thanks in advance to anyone that takes the time to respond.

[678b5b12ae0a8voodoo47]

SS2EE is still many months away, and SS2 is a 20-30 hour deal. go play SS2 modded now, once SS2EE is (hopefully) out sometime next year, go play that too.

[678b5b12ae3dfBrisk]

SS2EE is still many months away, and SS2 is a 20-30 hour deal. go play SS2 modded now, once SS2EE is (hopefully) out sometime next year, go play that too.

It appears that you are right. The "Enhanced Edition" in my GOG account is simply a place holder for System Shock 2 with no content to download. What's strange though is that the publisher of the 2018 version has been edited to include Nightdive now even though they had nothing to do with that version of the game and the system requirements list "windows 10" even though I remember installing the same version on a windows 7 machine back in 2014. Did they arbitrarily lock out a 25 year old game from being installed on anything other than modern windows? Seems rather ridiculous if that's the case...

[678b5b12ae503voodoo47]

SS2EE will be using their KEX engine so the requirements will go up inevitably. this is nothing unusual, Starcraft Remastered also requires a modern operating system and gpu, for example.

[678b5b12ae886JDoran]

Yes, play System Shock 2 now, using the recommended mods (https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=4447.0), it's a brilliant game and very stable when you've done everything on that page.

Also, you might want to play Prey (the game from 2017, not the game of the same name from 2006), as it's by far the closest game that I know of to System Shock 2, and it's really good. And I take it you've played the original Deus Ex (from the year 2000)? That's my favourite ever immersive sim, and if you've already played and liked it, then try replaying it with the brilliant mod GMDX (https://www.moddb.com/mods/gmdx/downloads), and then when you want to play it again, try the rebalanced version of GMDX (https://https://www.moddb.com/mods/gmdx/addons/version-rsd-beta-10-future-official-update). The respective authors of the two versions of GMDX (Join2, and Rosodude) both post on this forum, if you have any questions for the,.

[678b5b12aee10sarge945]

Yes, play System Shock 2 now, using the recommended mods (https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=4447.0), it's a brilliant game and very stable when you've done everything on that page.

It's not a typical day on SS.org if I don't shill my own stuff

And I take it you've played the original Deus Ex (from the year 2000)? That's my favourite ever immersive sim, and if you've already played and liked it, then try replaying it with the brilliant mod GMDX (https://www.moddb.com/mods/gmdx/downloads), and then when you want to play it again, try the rebalanced version of GMDX (https://https://www.moddb.com/mods/gmdx/addons/version-rsd-beta-10-future-official-update). The respective authors of the two versions of GMDX (Join2, and Rosodude) both post on this forum, if you have any questions for the,.

If only you knew what's in the works...

[678b5b12af0aeBrisk]

SS2EE will be using their KEX engine so the requirements will go up inevitably. this is nothing unusual, Starcraft Remastered also requires a modern operating system and gpu, for example.

The 2018 version of the game doesn't use the kex engine. Also what engine they use is irrelevant. it's determined by what settings they use when compiling the executable or what flags they set as requirements for the installer. I think you skipped over the section of my post where, (as I'm sure you're already aware) I mentioned that nightdive has zero to do with the current version of the game. So why they are now listed as a "publisher" and the system requirements changed for that store page is an illogical mystery.

The placeholder for the "enhanced edition" is a different story.

[678b5b12af3deBrisk]

Also, you might want to play Prey (the game from 2017, not the game of the same name from 2006), as it's by far the closest game that I know of to System Shock 2, and it's really good. And I take it you've played the original Deus Ex (from the year 2000)? That's my favourite ever immersive sim, and if you've already played and liked it, then try replaying it with the brilliant mod GMDX (https://www.moddb.com/mods/gmdx/downloads), and then when you want to play it again, try the rebalanced version of GMDX (https://https://www.moddb.com/mods/gmdx/addons/version-rsd-beta-10-future-official-update). The respective authors of the two versions of GMDX (Join2, and Rosodude) both post on this forum, if you have any questions for the,.

Both great games in a similar vein indeed. I haven't played Deus Ex fully since 02 or 03 though. Started it a second time in the early 2010's but ultimately never finished and I remember getting it running was a bitch due to either DX7 or DX8 that the game initially ran on. I can't remember which anymore...

Thanks for the mod recommendations. What's the difference between the two?

Prey (2017) I played through including the Mooncrash expansion in 2020 I believe shortly after it became available on GOG. The first game in that series is interesting as well but a lot more straight forward with less intricate game mechanics.

[678b5b12af636Brisk]

It's not a typical day on SS.org if I don't shill my own stuff

Appreciate the guide. This will come in super handy when I can sit down on the weekend to set this up. It's a lot more detailed than the "newbie guide" I previously referenced.

[678b5b12af7a7voodoo47]

the currently available GOG/steam build of SS2 uses NewDark, that means win2000 minimum, and xpsp3 minimum if modded. if the page says something else then it's simply incorrect.

[678b5b12aff77JDoran]

It's not a typical day on SS.org if I don't shill my own stuff

I didn't know about that, it's a good guide for people who want comprehensive information about upgrading the game. Maybe it should be linked to on the Mother (https://www.systemshock.org/index.php/topic,817.0.html) page here?

If only you knew what's in the works...

Oh, now I'm intrigued! A remaster, or maybe a new, top quality extensive single player campaign made by a dedicated group of hardcore fans, or perhaps a comprehensive recompilation of the game's code so that new features and upgrades can be added natively into the game, what? Can you give more information (if not publicly, then maybe PM me)?

Both great games in a similar vein indeed. I haven't played Deus Ex fully since 02 or 03 though. Started it a second time in the early 2010's but ultimately never finished and I remember getting it running was a bitch due to either DX7 or DX8 that the game initially ran on. I can't remember which anymore...

That's no problem nowadays. Deus Ex did have problems running on multi-core processors, very fast processors, etc, but you can download a fix for it that makes the game work properly on modern versions of Windows. I am working away from home, so I can't check what fix I installed on my games PC, but I think that this is the one:

https://coding.hanfling.de/launch/

Thanks for the mod recommendations. What's the difference between the two?

I don't know the specifics, as I've not yet played the latter version (it is on my mental 'games to play' list). The earlier, original, mod updates many, many aspects of Deus Ex, from new additions, to game balancing, even down to graphically enhancing areas for atmosphere and immersion, it's *very* comprehensive. And the later mod is the earlier mod but with changes and new improvements by RosoDude, who has made some very good improvement mods for various  games, including some very well thought out re-balancing mechanics, so i don't doubt that it will be well worth a play-though.

Prey (2017) I played through including the Mooncrash expansion in 2020 I believe shortly after it became available on GOG. The first game in that series is interesting as well but a lot more straight forward with less intricate game mechanics.

Yes, Prey (2006) is very different from the 2017 game, being a first person shooter with physics bending portals. They are so different that they shouldn't really have the same name (or at least not be thought of as being connected), but I've read somewhere that the company had to use the name 'Prey' or they'd lose the trademark or copyright over it, so they named the 2017 game, which at that time had a different name, 'Prey' to protect their rights.

[678b5b12b05fesarge945]

Oh, now I'm intrigued! A remaster, or maybe a new, top quality extensive single player campaign made by a dedicated group of hardcore fans, or perhaps a comprehensive recompilation of the game's code so that new features and upgrades can be added natively into the game, what? Can you give more information (if not publicly, then maybe PM me)?

No need for PM's. I will be open about it.

Over the last year, I have been working on a new modern version of GMDX, based off vRSD, mostly focusing on QoL changes, but there are some big gameplay enhancements in there too. The changelog is absolutely huge and there's some really big improvements (Lay-D Denton support, The removal of HDTP as a hard requirement, a significant belt and user experience overhaul, and much more). This keeps the gameplay largely intact while improving it in some areas I felt were still unbalanced/unpolished. This won't be the disaster that was GMDX v10.

If you're interested in learning more, or even testing it for yourself (it's not quite ready for release), I'm mainly sharing it with the Deus Ex channel on RoSoDude's Discord server - it started out as a minor mod to vRSD to allow the laser sight to stay on whenever you put away your weapon, but it grew into something much, much more significant since then. You're welcome to join and try it out if you want to. I need testers.

Some of the new QoL features:

• Huge overhaul of the belt mechanics (including many fixes for the very broken Invisible War toolbelt option), including the ability to disable autofill and enable double-click unholstering.
• The ability to toggle on/off every HDTP object individually, or to not use HDTP at all, with many HDTP exclusive features (skin colours for first person models, crossbow bolt skins, etc) being given Vanilla-friendly alternatives.
• "Belt Memory", which will reserve a specific belt slot when you run out of a particular item
• Laser Sights no longer deactivate permanently whenever you holster your weapon or mantle anywhere, now it auto re-enables itself when the weapon is re-equipped
• "Searched" labels on corpses and darkening of DataCube screens when read
• A fully dynamic crosshair showing only a dot when you have nothing equipped
• The ability to use the number keys in dialog windows
• The ability to use HUD Colours in dialog windows
• A full menu to toggle which items you take from corpses, to replace GMDX's janky "Decline Knives" option (this is similar to what Deus Ex Transcended offers, but in my opinion, is implemented better from a UI standpoint, since it's built into the Inventory menu, whereas the Transcended feature uses a separate list menu)
• Much, much, much more

Some of the gameplay changes:

• Cameras and turrets which are hacked will reset after a certain time (usually 3/4/5 minutes based on hacking skill), rewarding using Multitools and making hacking generally less overpowered.
• A bunch of new perks
• The Rifle Grenade doesn't require reloading to switch to/from, allowing using it in combat
• Plasma damage normalised (now it's always torso damage) to make it more reliable and less instant-kills on the player and enemies. Plasma feels far more satisfying to use overall.
• Significant Augmentation rework (currently in progress). Most passive augs have been given an "energy reservation" system to increase depth and tactical decision making.
• Putting a scope or laser sight on the GEP gun requires an Advanced-level perk, since they provide full rocket guidance, making the lock-on system useless and making the GEP ultra overpowered.
• Dragons Tooth Sword damage increased from vRSD where it was weak, but it requires recharging with biocells to use (you get about 50 hits on a full charge)
• Several new playthrough modifiers including No Keypad Cheese, Enemy Weapon randomisation, and more.
• Many other little adjustments and tweaks for balance

[678b5b12b0925ZylonBane]

It's not a typical day on SS.org if I don't shill my own stuff

Absolute LOL at any mod guide that recommends pixelating the textures and installing Migraine Cyberspace.

BTW 400 doesn't have any space textures. SHTUP does.

[678b5b12b0b95Brisk]

the currently available GOG/steam build of SS2 uses NewDark, that means win2000 minimum, and xpsp3 minimum if modded. if the page says something else then it's simply incorrect.

Good to know. This wouldn't be the first time the OS requirements were incorrect.

[678b5b12b0c84voodoo47]

and certainly not the last.

[678b5b12b0fd7Brisk]

Absolute LOL at any mod guide that recommends pixelating the textures and installing Migraine Cyberspace.

BTW 400 doesn't have any space textures. SHTUP does.

My plan was to continue using the mods suggested in the "newbie modding guide" but reference that guide for the actual install process since it's much more detailed. The only issue that I can foresee (due to lack of it being mentioned anywhere) is whether or not the "Grosnus' Hi-Res Spinning Marine/Navy/OSA logos" where ever actually incorporated into 400 or SHTUP-ND? I could only ever find it being mentioned as a possibility.

Also are any of these fan campaign addons (that are actually finished) worth playing?

https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?board=3.0;wap2


I also found a video from a couple years ago referencing a "redux" mod that appeared to be the majority of the mods mentioned (minus SCP) all combined into one but couldn't find many other references to it outside the video and pages on moddb/nexus mods where it was removed. I'm guessing this is due to combining the mods without the permission of the individuals that created them?

[678b5b12b11favoodoo47]

yes, modpacks bad, the people who put them together usually have no idea what they are doing and the results reflect that. just..don't, even if you manage to find some somewhere.

you will get the new logos with the latest SCP+SHTUP combo.

if you want to try out fan missions, start with Blaydes99 RttUNN, and continue with Christine's stuff (Polaris is my favorite, probably because it doesn't follow the traditional SS2 premise). Minstrel is ok too, the rest is pretty much just demos/unfinished missions, diehards only.

[678b5b12b15c8Brisk]

yes, modpacks bad, the people who put them together usually have no idea what they are doing and the results reflect that. just..don't, even if you manage to find some somewhere.

you will get the new logos with the latest SCP+SHTUP combo.

if you want to try out fan missions, start with Blaydes99 RttUNN, and continue with Christine's stuff (Polaris is my favorite, probably because it doesn't follow the traditional SS2 premise). Minstrel is ok too, the rest is pretty much just demos/unfinished missions, diehards only.

Thanks for the info.

A couple other things, "Olfred's fixed objects" is now redundant on it's own since it's incorporated into one of the other mods, correct?

Regarding the "Classic Final Boss" minimod for SCP, the wording explaining what it does contradicts the name. So will using this disable the SCP changes to allow for a vanilla final boss fight? Or will using this enable the SCP changes?

Sorry about all the seemingly random questions but I'm trying to piece things together from multiple different threads...

[678b5b12b174cvoodoo47]

right now, at this very moment, the fixed models are redundant if you have SCP. but if I stick the fixed rec counter object in there tomorrow.. not anymore.

pretty sure the minimod reverts the SCP changes? because the description kinda says so. and what else it could do? apply the SCP changes to SCP again? that was one weird question.

[678b5b12b1865ZylonBane]

Adding the fixed counter to Fixed Models would be a bit pointless since it's not used by anything other than SCP. I don't think even the Christine missions use it.

[678b5b12b214bBrisk]

pretty sure the minimod reverts the SCP changes? because the description kinda says so. and what else it could do? apply the SCP changes to SCP again? that was one weird question.

I agree but based on what's written here, is why I had to ask. One would think that for a first time playthrough that you should play the vanilla experience first?

https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?PHPSESSID=502d9tjclm5ulduubekbmju5ni&wap2;topic=12433.0

Classic Final Boss
Reverts (mostly) S​CP's changes to the final boss fight. If you've played SS2 before, you know who this fight is against, and might prefer the original fight mechanics. If you haven't played SS2 before and are playing through with S​CP for your first time, you shouldn't use this yet.

[678b5b12b2317voodoo47]

if I were to present what SCP is in one sentence, I would say this is the smoothest, most polished SS2 experience anyone can ever have, we've been at this for more than 25 years, we know you better than you know yourselves.

that also means sometimes you add a bit here and there, and sometimes you cut something away. but yes, you absolutely should go for SCP as a first time player, and not poke into its internal workings too much, unless you are looking for something very specific (ok, do RealSG, everyone should do RealSG).


also, extra points to whoever catches the hidden reference.

[678b5b12b2450ZylonBane]

The only possible explanation I can come up with is that Brisk here doesn't understand what "revert" means, so instead of looking it up he's trying to guess from context.

[678b5b12b281dBrisk]

if I were to present what SCP is in one sentence, I would say this is the smoothest, most polished SS2 experience anyone can ever have, we've been at this for more than 25 years, we know you better than you know yourselves.

that also means sometimes you add a bit here and there, and sometimes you cut something away. but yes, you absolutely should go for SCP as a first time player, and not poke into its internal workings too much, unless you are looking for something very specific (ok, do RealSG, everyone should do RealSG).

Ha?

I'm sensing just a tad bit of bias here.

Anyway, I think I'm set now.

I guess I will wait a couple days for your updated "Olfred's fixed objects" download and use that.

Thanks for the prompt replies.