Movie rant

[67edaf0d8d875sarge945]

Stop trying to read into the "subtext" of Bioshock Infinite. There is no subtext. The game says nothing. It's only there to be a shiny spectacle for people who don't understand storytelling, good writing, or functional game design.

[67edaf0d8daefJDoran]

I'd be the first to agree that Bioshock: Infinite is all glitter and no depth. But my pointing out one scene from the game that has a link to something under discussion (the Star Wars films), and mentioning someone else's idea that perhaps that scene (the name of the film in the scene, at least) is meant as a (clumsy) clue to what's coming up is hardly a long-winded, heavily forced discussion about Bioshock: Infinite's storyline (when it remembers that is should have one) and the depths (or rather the shallows) of it's themes.

It's a very beautiful, very promising first person shooter that was supposed to be ground-breaking, but turned out to be several steps back, gameplay-wise, from it's two predecessors, with an interesting premise that the game disappointingly failed to live up to, a game that at worst was boring, and at best was (graphics aside), mediocre, and with a ridiculous and pretentious ending that somehow seemed to really captivate half of the players (the rest of us didn't rate it at all).

[67edaf0d8dc9dhypatia]

Surprised that no-one has mentioned Knights Of The Old Republic...

Yes it's a computer game but it's simply the best Star Wars storytelling since the original 2.5 films (I *so* agree about the ewoks, in fact ages ago when I recorded the original trilogy onto VHS I made my own edit and purposefully cut out the ewoks).

It's difficult to get across just how important the 1978/9 original film was (I refuse to call it A New Hope).  Even here in the UK it was so big that in primary school (aged 9), a teacher took our entire class to see it, by which time I'd already seen it twice already.  We'd NEVER ever done anything like that before.

If only Lucas or Jar Jar Abrams had licenced the KOTOR story off Bioware (IIRC) then we may have had a good post-1985 Star Wars film, but they're all trash...

[67edaf0d8de91JDoran]

The original Star Wars film was amazing at the time (and still excellent even now). Everything about it was so well done, not just the story and the acting, but the characterisation (so many story stereotypes, but done so very well, such as the young hero, the wise and powerful old mentor, the beautiful princess, the rough and tough rouge with a good heart, the evil and very powerful wizard, the army of evil who don't seem to value life at all), the special effects, the designs of the space-craft, even the (fantastic) music and the scrolling text at the start of the film, and the way the screen is 'wiped' to the next scene during scene changes.

Everything about it was done so well. And Darth Vader was superb, the voice, the walk, the look, the breathing (I'm not sure why a breathing sound should add to whole thing so well, but it does), the whole I-own-this-place-and-everything-in-it attitude. If you had to write a list of the best cinematic villains ever, then Vader would have to be top five, at worst.

Star Wars (the film) was just one of those very rare times where everything came together and just worked. No flaws, no "They should have changed that*, it was just so well done and well judged.


* Well, Chewbacca should have got a medal at the end of the film, along with Luke and Han. Did they fix that in the remaster? They made some terrible changes in the remasters, it would be nice if they at least gave Chewy a medal.

[67edaf0d8e68bhypatia]

Everything about it was so well done, not just the story and the acting, but the characterisation (so many story stereotypes, but done so very well, such as the young hero, the wise and powerful old mentor, the beautiful princess...

Agree with your entire post but don't forget Lucas lifted elements of the plot and characters from Akira Kurosawa's film 'The Hidden Fortress' (as Lucas freely acknowledges). Kenobi and Leia are very recognisable, although the biggest lift was that much of the story is told from the viewpoint of two endlessly squabbling peasants, which Lucas masterfully repurposed as the two droids.

Akira Kurosawa is of course best known for 'The Seven Samurai' (licensed and remade as 'The Magnificent Seven') and the masterpiece 'Yojimbo' (which Sergio Leone shamefully stole - and was forced to pay damages - for 'A Fistful Of Dollars').

[67edaf0d8ea6dfox]

Akira Kurosawa is of course best known for 'The Seven Samurai' (licensed and remade as 'The Magnificent Seven') and the masterpiece 'Yojimbo' (which Sergio Leone shamefully stole - and was forced to pay damages - for 'A Fistful Of Dollars').

Sergio Leone might have been a dick about it but I'm glad he did make A Fistful Of Dollars regardless. Both are essential movies (and directors). In hindsight, Kurosawa surely profited from the popularity of the remake too.

[67edaf0d8eba1sarge945]

If we're going to go down the "stolen ideas" route then I think every story ever written owes Homer's Odyssey royalties.

There's just really nothing new, everything is based off something else. Just enjoy it when it's competently done.

[67edaf0d8edadJoin2]

Star Wars, Doctor Who, Marvel/DC = lame GEEK sci-fi media.

Terminator, Alien, The X-Files, The Predator, Total Recall, Akira, The Matrix, Event Horizon, The Thing, and many more  = ELITE Sci-Fi tastes.

Don't quote me, I know you are seething

With Marvel I'll only make an exception for the first Blade movie. And Star Wars/Doc Who still gets some credit from me for being an important stepping stone and inspiration for the Sci-fi to come.

[67edaf0d8f07bConcealed Character]

and lastly on the topic of a certain word starting with a w)

It is 1 out of 2 games which i bought within the past 15 years with money. Also it was made by a dentist in his freetime with ms paint.

[67edaf0d8f40bbobf5]

ELITE Sci-Fi tastes

+1 for the X-Files, but no mention of RoboCop?

(bad rant below!!!!)
Personally, I just hate Star Wars in general. I watched the original trilogy growing up (DVD version, opinion invalidated), and it instilled in me an immense hatred for 'fantasy loosely pretending to be sci-fi'. As soon as I was old enough to find movies on my own, I couldn't get away from it fast enough. That said, I am fascinated by the films lifting from Kurosawa, particularly the droids. Even if that's inherently derivative, I find it imaginative at least (kind of like Tarantino and Hong Kong films, but to a different extent). edit: For context, Star Wars was constantly around me as a kid; the LEGO games, the prequels, books, cartoons (that never looked great to me, but people my age seem to really like?), the toys... I respect Star Wars, but it was too much.

[67edaf0d8f52bsarge945]

So am I the only person in the world who finds The Thing extremely overrated?

[67edaf0d8f659Join2]

I like Robocop but I don't think it's "elite" tier.

So am I the only person in the world who finds The Thing extremely overrated?

OK maybe slightly. Probably the best Carpenter movie though.

[67edaf0d91e19bobf5]

I like Robocop but I don't think it's "elite" tier.

I meant mentioning at all, but I get it. Great taste regardless

[67edaf0d92770Join2]

If I'm mentioning Robocop then I am also mentioning Starship Troopers, The Fifth Element, Deep Rising, Fortress, Appleseed,  Demolition Man, Hardware, Universal Soldier, Cyber City File 2, Cube, Pitch Black, Virus, The Running Man...and then wanting to start ranting about other genres too (martial arts, horror without a sci-fi element, actiion comedy etc).

And then I am also left wanting to rant about the absolute superiority of the 90s (and to a lesser extent the 80s though not in video games) in all things once more.

[67edaf0d92f59sarge945]

They Live?

It does fall off in quality in the second half, though

[67edaf0d93084Join2]

Not seen it. Always had been meaning to.

[67edaf0d93275icemann]

Worth a watch.

[67edaf0d9374eZylonBane]

Personally, I just hate Star Wars in general. I watched the original trilogy growing up (DVD version, opinion invalidated), and it instilled in me an immense hatred for 'fantasy loosely pretending to be sci-fi'.

It's called "space opera". If you're going to exert the effort to hate something, you should at least know what it is.

[67edaf0d94292bobf5]

It's called "space opera". If you're going to exert the effort to hate something, you should at least know what it is.

I do at least know what that is! It's a great fantasy adventure film, and also a below average sci-fi film with great visuals, so yes it is a space opera :)
But yeah, that was a really dumb and non constructive rant, sorry. Snipping
edit: And apologies for all my comments in this thread, they were ignorant and unnecessary.

[67edaf0d943f6sarge945]

Literally nobody thinks Star Wars is good sci fi. But if you watch it looking for sci fi, you've missed the point entirely.

Star Wars is a decently well told underdog story with memorable and likeable characters and a near perfect build up to it's climax.

[67edaf0d94561icemann]

Hell, even Star Trek has been less sci-fi more fantasy, especially with the more modern iterations.

For a good space opera I HIGHLY recommend "Babylon 5". If you can look past the Amiga made CGI, then your in for a real treat. Rewatched it a year ago, and really enjoyed it. Even has some decent-ish movies (that are more like longer episodes). I never hear the series get mentioned at all nowadays, which is criminal.

[67edaf0d94697Join2]

So...is there any truly good Sci-Fi post Y2K? I'm aware of none.

[67edaf0d948b2tiphares4]

ALIEN without Aliens.. i think this is a decent movie aside from a few flaws:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVUkT9Mft-E

and it seems to take place in the same film-universe + shotguns in space :)

[67edaf0d9657fbobf5]

Hell, even Star Trek has been less sci-fi more fantasy, especially with the more modern iterations.

For a good space opera I HIGHLY recommend "Babylon 5". If you can look past the Amiga made CGI, then your in for a real treat. Rewatched it a year ago, and really enjoyed it. Even has some decent-ish movies (that are more like longer episodes). I never hear the series get mentioned at all nowadays, which is criminal.

I've gotten a lot of enjoyment out of TNG and DS9 for the guest actors. Even Voyager had some good appearances, show itself aside.

I only watched a little Babylon 5 and my memory's a bit hazy, but I remember enjoying it. Very good suggestion