Ken Levine talks about SS2's ending...

[67510feab4e07Mr Rayford]

Tags: °SS2 °background...and why he was dissapointed, among other things.

http://irrationalgames.com/insider/what-might-have-been/

[67510feab5086Kolya]

Upon getting his hands on the video for the ending sequence, Levine didn’t see anything that he wrote in the script.

“System Shock 2 was made in single room, which was around 900 square feet,” Levine recalls

How he could not have an eye on the ending, which was supposed to pull the whole story together, is somewhat beyond me. But yeah, I guess there's a lot to worry about and the ending was rushed as we all know.
At least the epilogue was in best horror film tradition.

(Related thread on TTLG)

[67510feab51dfWrench]

Oh I would love to play a zero-g level in SShock2!!! (hey mod-guys )

But maybe it's better to not include such a feature (in the original Game) instead of rushing it through und screw it...

The most dissapointing thing in the endig is that he shoots at the screen to kill Shodan. its like destroying the monitor and saying "oh I broke my PC/Computer"

But hey, the journey is the reward!!!!
Wrench

[67510feab5328Kolya]

I had this idea once where Goggles upon meeting his own ghost ("Rachel, kids, I'm sorry.") begins to realize he's done all this before and eventually shoots himself in SHODAN's lair, again.
SHODAN still dies, because she was in Goggles' head all the time, the same way she possesses Rebecca.
I even had Tonamel do a few lines for the final dialogue but couldn't find anyone to record the ghost's suicide motion with the actual Goggles model in SHODAN's lair.

[67510feab547eZylonBane]

Reminder for next version of ADaOB-- replace model of suicide ghost with generic crewmember.

[67510feab5552Kolya]

Haha, that was a very polite way of saying my idea sucks.

[67510feab5674ZylonBane]

Maybe.

Seriously though, it's a change that should be made. We in the modding community know that they only used that model to save development time, but it just confuses new players.

We could make a custom Midwife using the unused Nurse Bloome skin too.

[67510feab5774Kolya]

What would have been the additional development if they'd just used a standard crew member ghost? There must have been some other reason, I don't remember which though. Maybe they wanted a grunt there, but why?

[67510feab5854ZylonBane]

I think it had something to do with the crew models not being set up to wield a gun.

[67510feab59a4NeilHoward17]

But why do that? the model is obviously delibrate. it was probably to hint on the possibillity of other avatars enlisted by shodan prior to the player?

[67510feab5aa3Kolya]

No, I think ZylonBane is right, there was some technical reason, we had confirmed that at one point. But with TTLG still being down it's quite impossible to retrace.

[67510feab5c12Nameless Voice]

*sigh*

http://212.227.54.9/forums/

[67510feab5f08ZylonBane]

But why do that? the model is obviously delibrate. it was probably to hint on the possibillity of other avatars enlisted by shodan prior to the player?

See, this is exactly the sort of sillyness I'm talking about.

[67510feab6024NeilHoward17]

I don't think it would have saved time, I think it may have been deliberate to suggest such things, if it was a genuine mistake or somebody was slacking off, then in my opinion it was a good mistake.

[67510feab6110Kolya]

I agree that it was a "good mistake" as it opens up a tiny space in the background story for different interpretations. Such ambiguity isn't a bad thing.

[67510feab6223ZylonBane]

Yeah, except that nothing else in the story supports these different interpretations. The logs you find are very clear about what SHODAN did on the Von Braun. The suicide ghost is just some guy in a cybersuit, or whatever you want to call it.

Which scenario is more unlikely-- that SHODAN had some third avatar who wasn't mentioned anywhere else in the game, or that Goggles had a custom uniform made just for him and nobody else?

[67510feab6390NeilHoward17]

Don't get me wrong zylonbane, your argument is fair and just and I'm in agreement with the fact that no mention of a third avatar is made.

All I'm saying is it leaves open certain ideas to player debate, granted you may like or dislike the concept, but this kind of speculation on small details is what the plot of system shock 2, and games of similar design are built on.

But I must admit, the lack of supporting evidence does lean towards the 'happy error' idea, and with a plot like SS2's, the can't really be room for error of such a kind. if their intent was to hint at another avatar, then its a good idea, but if its a cut-corner and has no purpose, then I agree it will probably just confuse  people. I guess I'm neutral (Said the guy who metioned it in the first place)

[67510feab647dKolya]

I fail to see the necessity for a canonical answer in this case. Occam's Razor says there's nothing to it, but it's fun to speculate anyway, keeps a community alive and thinking.

[67510feab65d5NeilHoward17]

I guess there isn't one, plus it's probably serving its purpose by causing micro-debates, keeping things interesting in the game and as you say, the community.

I do suppose that the fact that the players memory is erased, yet the suicidey man clearly recalls his family, could blow the idea of the avatar up in flames, backing up zylonbanes argument.

as for canon, well lets ask levine when someone gets chance.

[67510feab6707Nameless Voice]

Uh, only the player's memory of the last few months is erased.  Otherwise all those career choices earlier on wouldn't affect your character, for a start.

[67510feab67efNeilHoward17]

oh yeah, sorry had to rewatch the cutscenes to understand that