What is humour?

[673f98f9261f2Kolya]

There are three major lines in humour theory which I will sum up here very shortly:

1. Superiority theory
This says we find it funny to feel superior about someone or something, usually someone who's clumsy and inflexible. Obviously this is a rather narrow scope, so later this theory was widened in that we don't have to be the person ourselves who is superior but we may also sympathise with a "winner" and laugh about a "loser". These don't have to be persons either but could be objects or even ideas.

2. Relief theory
During discussion of a serious subject nervous tension is building up. When a less serious subject is suddenly introduced, this excessive tension is relieved. This is closer to a laughter theory than humour.

3. Incongruity theory
Humour consists of an established subject that and the introduction of a new subject that contrasts the old. The stronger the connection AND the incongruity between the two, the more humorous it will be.
This theory has a very wide scope, possibly beyond being useful. After all there are many incongruities that aren't a source of humour.


All in all humour theory is an underdeveloped field of philosophy. (Despite being meddled with discontinuously since the ancients.) There might be a distinction to be made between humour and laughter. Not everything that's considered humorous evokes laughter, nor is laughter a good measurement about how funny/humorous something is. In fact we may laugh for various non-humorous reasons.

Notably none of the above theories can satisfyingly explain why one thing is funny and the other isn't. What would be a description of all things you find to be humorous? In which situations have you found someone laugh about something that you didn't find to be funny at all and why?

[673f98f9265daEnchantermon]

Humor is a very subjective thing. What makes one thing funny and another not funny is based largely on the person, I think.

Take "poor taste" jokes. For example, how do you fit 44 Jews into a VW Bug? Two in the front, two in the back and 40 in the ashtray. I happen to think that such a joke is in poor taste and hence it's not really that funny to me. By contrast, I know some who would laugh uproariously at it. The joke is the same; what changed is the person's perspective. Not everyone appreciates the same type of humor. My former youth minister would crack "corny" jokes all the time and I was the only one in the youth group who would laugh at them; everyone else would just groan and roll their eyes. He and I were alone in our like for those types of jokes. But why? I don't know.

[673f98f92677eKolya]

So you and him had something in common, some kind of knowledge or experience that made it funny for you two.
In the case of jokes about Jews that common thing would probably be an antipathy against Jews. Generally I think that ethnic/minority jokes are best described by the superiority theory: Make the other group look stupid and feel good about it, because you are smarter than that.

Personally I tend to identify with the weak/small/helpless very fast. So these kind of jokes aren't funny to me. On the other hand I will laugh about gratuitous comical violence (Tom & Jerry) a lot.
And if someone makes a joke that reveals a new insight in a surprising way I find that very humorous even though I may not laugh out loud.

Perhaps these theories describe more the persons who created them, then what humour really is? Then again humour is such a human thing, so maybe that's a moot point.

[673f98f9268ddZylonBane]

I used to have a half-baked theory that humor comes from that which you enjoy, arriving strangely.

[673f98f926a6bKolya]

So basically a pleasant surprise? That probably doesn't cover all sorts of humour. What about the parody humour of Monty Python (carefully choosing something I know you find funny here). There's nothing really pleasant about their extreme awkwardness I think.
My half-baked theory is that it's gotta be a non-threatening incongruity. For Monty Python their over the top ways are incongruous with the seriousness they depict. And I wouldn't find it funny if I was there, but I'm just watching it on a telly, so it's funny. 

It's kinda like Homer Simpson laughed when shown films of people dying in horrible car crashes while everyone else cried and he said: I don't know these people, so it's funny!

[673f98f926c55ZylonBane]

Not surprise. Incongruously would be a better choice of words. Think of it this way-- As we grow and learn, our brains build up a mental model of how the world around us works. We make millions of interconnections that allow us to efficiently exist in the world without having to analyze every new situation from base principles. Our minds become elaborate machines constructed out of interlocking ideas and knowledge, with every input having a roughly defined path through the machine.

Incongruity results when an idea manages to take a nonstandard path through the machine. Laughter is your brain being tickled by the idea forcing its way along the wrong path. But the idea and the path have to add up to something you like for there to be laughter. Otherwise the result can be confused indifference, or the opposite of laughter-- shock, horror, disgust.

Consider physical violence. Most of us have a healthy appreciation for violence. Young and/or stupid people can be made to laugh by something as simple as unexpectedly punching someone in the face. But more developed minds have already accepted and internalized random pointless violence as just one of those things that happens, so they require more elaborate, less obvious setup. A pie in the face. One of Wile E. Coyote's doomed devices. Dr. Strangelove. Etc. Babies laugh at peek-a-boo because they haven't learned object permanence yet. Adults laugh at peek-a-boo because what the hell dude why are you doing that? I like jokes that require you to think a bit because I like thinking. Etc.

[673f98f926dd6voodoo47]

originally, an idea about how humour works was here, but it got destroyed by the sheer awesomeness of ZB's post.

seriously dude, I like the way your mind works.

[673f98f926eb1Kolya]

Yeah, that was an impressive description. Now explain running gags.

[673f98f926f9fZylonBane]

Running gags are kind of like remembering a joke. Or the running nature of the gag IS the joke... which makes it a joke that takes a very long time to tell.

[673f98f9270c9Kolya]

Or, to keep with your previous explanation, the non standard element about a running gag isn't the gag, but the different situations in which it unexpectedly appears.
It's coming from a new direction every time and may gain new meanings from these (taking a new path through the machine). Usually a running gag isn't a full joke anyway, but a catchphrase or some other short utterance that's fit to take on different meanings in different circumstances.

EDIT: The pleasant part would be group confirmation, as running gags are only funny with people who know that gag.

[673f98f9271afEnchantermon]

Wow, ZB. That's impressive, and actually makes sense.

[673f98f9272c4Kolya]

Now what about the necessary existing knowledge that we spoke about before?
I'm not sure if it applies to all humour, but generally there's got to be a known element and an unknown/unexpected element. This could be seen as a premise for an idea to take a nonstandard (wrong) path through the machine: If the idea is completely new it cannot deviate from an existing path but will take a new path all along, which somehow isn't quite that funny.

[673f98f9274caKolya]

I think we have a pretty good handle on humour now, mainly due to ZB's intelligent humour theory.
So it might be time to test it against some examples, preferably contradictory ones. (Go internet!)

Image: http://i.imgur.com/uMRvm.png

I see several jokes in this one and yeah I like it and think it's humorous although it doesn't make me howl with laughter. Mostly these are contrasting elements: The discovery of a habitable planet which would be important for the whole human race vs. the comparatively small achievement of having bought a hybrid car. This is where the idea takes an unexpected path, from a cosmic scale to a private issue. None are really new but the combination is. The next one closely connects a fictional (nerdgroup confirming) knowledge about the warp drive with the banal RL element of "5 shopping days". Doesn't usually go together. It's like Chewbacca in a supermarket.
The last joke about "heaven" is half joke and half moral conclusion of the story. Nevertheless it uses a typical joke device by suddenly subverting the idea of a scifi war by revealing the same thing to have existed for a long time under a different name.

Interestingly the fictional/scifi side of this dialogue is consistently presented by a robot (Clango) and the nonfictional everyday life side by a human (ex-porn actress Maura). So the contrasts are built into their characters similar to many other famous comedy couples.

[673f98f927630Nameless Voice]

Isaac Asimov wrote a short story about humour, where he theorised that it was really some kind of bizarre experiment that aliens were performing on the human race to test them.  The story is called "Jokester" and was published in "Earth is Room Enough".

[673f98f92773eKolya]

To what avail?

Humour is also the solution "Harry Haller" finally finds for his personal crisis in the book "Steppenwolf" by Hermann Hesse, as humour manages to bend the poles and make the contradictions and injustices of life bearable. Well that and drugs and Jazz music.

[673f98f927b1dLarryG]

Some of what Samuel Langhorne Clemens (Mark Twain) wrote / said on humor:

"Everything human is pathetic. The secret source of Humor itself is not joy but sorrow. There is no humor in heaven."

"Laughter without a tinge of philosophy is but a sneeze of humor. Genuine humor is replete with wisdom."

"Humor is the good natured side of a truth."

"...humor cannot do credit to itself without a good background of gravity & of earnestness. Humor unsupported rather hurts its author in the estimation of the reader."

"What is it that strikes a spark of humor from a man? It is the effort to throw off, to fight back the burden of grief that is laid on each one of us. In youth we don't feel it, but as we grow to manhood we find the burden on our shoulders. Humor? It is nature's effort to harmonize conditions. The further the pendulum swings out over woe the further it is bound to swing back over mirth."

"American humor is different entirely to French, German, Scotch, or English humor. And the difference lies in the mode of expression. Though it comes from the English, American humor is distinct. As a rule when an Englishman writes or tells a story, the 'knob' of it, as we would call it, has to be emphasized or italicized, and exclamation points put in. Now, an American story-teller does not do that. He is apparently unconscious of the effect of the joke."


Then there is:

“The secret to humor is surprise.” - Aristotle

"The wit makes fun of other persons; the satirist makes fun of the world; the humorist makes fun of himself." - James Thurber

"Comedy is nothing more than tragedy deferred." -  Pico Iyer

“Humor is reason gone mad.” - Groucho Marx


And finally,

"Defining and analyzing humor is a pastime of humorless people." - Robert Benchley

[673f98f927cc5Kolya]

Naturally I think the last is a cop out.
Why should only serious or tragic experiences of human life be subject to analysis when analysing humour may lead us to happiness and is ultimately more fun by itself?

Re: Mark Twain
I lately read he was born and died with the regular appearances of the Halley Comet (74 years interval) and even predicted his own death for that time. Scary cool. It's like he was brought and taken back to another world by it.

[673f98f927ebfKolya]

There's one aspect of humour that we haven't really talked about yet. And that's how different types of humour can reveal or express a certain mindset. The mindset behind a minority joke is quite obvious but there's a more general description. The thesis is that there are basically two types of humour:

1. Conservative Humour
This type implicitly defends accepted notions, values and rules by showing how an unfit person or idea comically fails at them, often by exaggerating traits of that person or idea. This will help strengthen cohesiveness of a group by defining the group negatively (saying what's not accepted in the group).

2. Radical Humour
Conversely this type of humour attacks accepted opinion, values and rules by introducing an unusual viewpoint and reinterpreting them from this point. Example: "If the poor weren't so ugly the problem of poverty would soon be solved." (Wilde)

I assume there could be just as many categorisations like these as there are general perspectives on society but I found these to be especially interesting and helpful to quickly determine for myself what it is I like or don't like about a joke.

As you may have noticed the humour theory presented by ZylonBane only describes Radical Humourdoesn't describe Conservative Humour, which is fine with me because Radical is my preferred type. But it's interesting to note anyway.

[673f98f927fb5Scorpion]

Somehow I get the feeling you guys are getting bored...

[673f98f9280aevoodoo47]

gotta keep the mind occupied, or else it will rot away. topics like this one are perfect for that.

[673f98f9282fdFironkkuify]

gotta keep the mind occupied, or else it will rot away. topics like this one are perfect for that.

True, just learned that in Psychology -w-

[673f98f9283f6citadel]

The is THE more intelligent part of the internet and I thank you for it!