SS2 No weapon degradation

[674026a52fe53RocketMan]

If you're referring to the shotgun thing...there's nothing I personally can think of to explain why they'd suddenly break.  Maybe someone will come up with something clever for that.

[674026a5300c6voodoo47]

how about making it even more vague? something like "it seems like the many have found a way to interfere with proper function of certain machinery, namely our weapons. those things break ten times faster than they should. nobody really knows whether they have released something in the air or influence it psionically." and there you have it, everybody can pick what they like.


as for hybrid shotguns, I would either make them non-lootable (fixing the old shotgun-stays-on-hybrid-body-even-when-looted anomaly on the way), or leave them working but in terrible condition (literally 2-3 shots before breaking). and figure out how to remove the shotgun from the body model after it is looted (I believe secmod already does this). and why the shotguns always work when wielded by hybrids? well, maybe the worm can maintain a proper anti entropy field to keep the gun firing..

[674026a530698gaspalorz]

how about making it even more vague? something like "it seems like the many have found a way to interfere with proper function of certain machinery, namely our weapons. those things break ten times faster than they should. nobody really knows whether they have released something in the air or influence it psionically."

"But hey, this means we can sell more maintenance tools to those jarheads!"

1. Invite Many on board
2. Let it influence their weapons
3. Increase maintenance tool replication
4. ???
5. Profit!

I would either make them non-lootable

Haven't we already agreed that removing them from inventory is one of possibilities? Or perhaps just adding "destroyed" flag to their class would do.

I also wanted to add something to the discussion so I wrote a limerick

Our weapons break so fast
Never know how long they'll last
Solving this ain't easy task
It's just better not to ask

[674026a5307f1voodoo47]

seems like senility is finally kicking in.


anyway, how about that rhyme smeared with blood on some nice wall somewhere in engineering? now that would be a fine solution.

[674026a531ef6Kolya]

+1 vote

[674026a53200agaspalorz]

Perhaps somewhere near a decapitated body? An epitaph to certain crewman who lost their head due to inventing way too many theories about weapon degradation.

[674026a532163Fironkkuify]

I'm all for the vagueness treatment.  I believe Rocketman mentioned it  was about letting the player come to their own conclusions.  Although there won't be a definite answer, we will at least explain (more or less) why the weapons degrade.  It doesn't create any loopholes that I know of and it does fit that the crew members would be a bit clueless as to WHY it's happening. 

They might have noticed it before everything went down but never elaborated (or researched the cause) due to the fight for survival that came soon after where defending yourself took priority over worrying about a theory.

But we're gonna need a full agreement for this thing to kick off.

[674026a532266RocketMan]

The idea about the many producing their own anti-entropic field to indefinately use shitty busted shotguns is actually a really good idea.  No complaints.

[674026a532673Kolya]

I agree.

it could be that something they emanate (a psi power) keeps the weapons from breaking as long as they handle them. Which would explain why the shotgun hybrid's shotguns never work, which I personally found more of an immersion breaker than the fast degradation of guns.

And here are some ideas for the future (of SecMod):
An anti-entropic psi field emanating from the Many enemies just asks for a psi skill to break someone else's psi power. It would disarm a shotgun hybrid, who would then go on to use his gun as a club. And it would reduce psi monkeys to their cutesy melee scratch attacks. Later enemies might notice you using this attack and try to deflect it. An elaborate psi battle would ensue, with visualisations of the invisible forces (think Akira's Tetsuo).

[674026a53287fNameless Voice]

Would it be considered to change the game balance too much to "fix" this in ADaOB, so that shotgun hybrids aren't broken but jam after a single shot?
I think the problem there is that it would let you get a shotgun earlier (and fix it up with maintenance tools), making the repair skill even less useful.

[674026a5329a5voodoo47]

in theory, yes, this would allow you to get an usable shotgun a little bit earlier (if you knew exactly what to do), but the difference is so small that it shouldn't really matter.

as for the repair skill, it was useless,  it is useless, and it will stay useless unless overhauled from the scratch.

[674026a532aebRocketMan]

Don't you start out with a maintenance tool in one of the disciplines?  If maintenance tools can be acquired so easily before you're "supposed to" get a shotgun, then maybe that's the problem.  The little "treat" you start out with due to following a particular discipline should be rare and special and actually have some value.  If you can just replicate 5 tools and fix a busted shotgun to good condition, that to me seems like a flaw, not so much allowing the player to have a shotgun early on.

[674026a532c70voodoo47]

if you get a character with maintenance skill, yeah, after a further cm investment to the maintenance skill, and after scrounging enough nanites to buy a bunch of maintenance tools, it would be possible to have a working shotgun before you leave the medical sector for the first time, but you still need a shotgun hybrid to join the party, and I'm not sure if they even spawn at this point of game.

[674026a532db9Fironkkuify]

Shotgun hybrids are very rare in MedSci (you probably only encounter one or two on a usual playthrough in MedSci).  Not only that but you can find two working shotguns in MedSci so it renders that method of getting a shotgun early rather useless. 

[674026a532efaRocketMan]

Ah, so I misunderstood how easy it was to abuse this aspect of the game.  I suppose if you do go out of your way to learn to use the shotgun and fix it up nice, you'll be penalizing yourself in some other way so it's probably a good thing to allow it.  If it were easy to do with no penalty it'd probably be a vice.

So maybe we should try to converge on an idea for the weapon degradation?  I think the hybrid shotgun problem should be easily fixable now since there aren't a lot of objections to voodoo's / Kolya's suggestion.

[674026a533071Fironkkuify]

There's technically no real advantage to getting terrible (but not broken) shotguns.  You might get lucky and find a shotgun hybrid before you go off to MedSci but it's a waste to fix it up when there's a better-conditioned shotgun in that one room in the crew quarters of MedSci. 

There's an even better shotgun located on a balconey in a room that is central in the hallway leading to Dr. Watts' lab.

I don't entirely understand how one thinks they can get an unfair advantage from this by letting the shotgun hybrids carry unbroken shotguns.  Frankly it's a waste of cyber modules and nanites (that early in the game at least) to invest in high maintenance for a weapon that wastes more resources than the two shotguns you find in MedSci.

[674026a53319dKolya]

The advantage is that you don't need to repair it first, which requires an entirely different skill.
That being said: Why exactly should the shotguns not be broken anymore? Just asking.
It's not a necessary consequence of the anti-entropy field theory, is it? I mean your own shotgun can break when being used at the lowest level. And the field of a shotgun hybrid would prevent that.
So why do we want to make the repair skill even more obsolete?

[674026a533293Fironkkuify]

Kind of love how I was being ignored completely before but now I'm seeing my suggestions being suggested by others -w-;

So are we close to an agreement yet?

[674026a5333d4RocketMan]

I would like to see repair put to use as well.  I can see the only reason for not breaking them would be that if the hybrid dies then his field was working after his last shot fired so in theory the gun should either have 1 shot left in it or else jam the first time it's used. If we left the guns broken though the discrepency left behind might be more easily overlooked than hybrids always having working shotguns

[674026a533504AluminumHaste]

The whole degradation idea was moronic from the start. It's like the year 2100+ and yet weapon technology is a million times worse then current day tech. I can empty 5 clips of ammo and my gun is jamming and needs to be repaired? WTF? Who made these weapons LEGO? If our military had these guns there would be no wars as everyone would be repairing their guns instead of using them. We'd all be going to war with wrenches. Fucking stupid. This mod rocks.

[674026a53366dZylonBane]

And the "Ate Paint Chips as a Child" contingent has weighed in.

[674026a533994voodoo47]

I have an opinion! The world needs to know.

I just remembered why have I given up on humanity a long time ago.

[674026a533aaaKolya]

Realism takes a step back to put you in danger (it is a horror game after all) and force you to use more varied skills.
Also there exists an in-game explanation why the guns break, which has been discussed at length in this thread.

[674026a533dd6Fironkkuify]

The whole degradation idea was moronic from the start. It's like the year 2100+ and yet weapon technology is a million times worse then current day tech. I can empty 5 clips of ammo and my gun is jamming and needs to be repaired? WTF? Who made these weapons LEGO? If our military had these guns there would be no wars as everyone would be repairing their guns instead of using them. We'd all be going to war with wrenches. Fucking stupid. This mod rocks.

When it comes down to it, it's a game.  Some of the mechanics may appear completely unreasonable by today's standards (real life) but that's usually for reasons of game balance and challenge. 

At the very least, the gun degradation is fine; at least you don't have to worry about your melee weapons breaking down right?