NewDark original releases: SS2 and Thief2

[67418be9da042RocketMan]

This thread is for technical discussion about the NewDark patch. It is not a place a for support requests.
It is recommended that you use the provided automatic installers to install this patch:
- SS2Tool for System Shock 2
- Tafferpatcher for Thief 2
- TFix for Thief 1

I'm going to look like a real putz if I stir up the hive over nothing but I think we may be onto something here gentlemen...

http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140085

TTLG members seem to have discovered this on a French forum and a few have tried it but most are just drooling over it and I'm at work so I can't take a deep dive to see how legit or useful it is.  The feature list is full of win but I'm not the most technically inclined so does anyone care to weigh in on what the significance of this package actually is and how we can use it, if at all? 

If it is made of win...       

//Added new versions ~Kolya

[67418be9da254voodoo47]

no time to post, time to go through all the new stuff. and yeah, it's made of win.

[67418be9da3f1Kolya]

I'll attach the download, because otherwise this thread is in the wrong forum. Let's hope this is legit. Seems clean anyway.


EDIT: I'm still downloading the SS2 demo from deposit. It's slow as a very slow thing. When I got everything I'll probably make a torrent, including the thief stuff.

[67418be9da4faRocketMan]

Yeahhh.... I guess I wouldn't be quite myself if I didn't do something wrong constructing a simple thread.

[67418be9da66cKolya]

I've tested this a bit and come up with a preliminary install procedure:
1. Pull the shock folder from the CD (as advised in the SS2 tech FAQ)
2. Install SS2Tool v3.6 but uncheck "Bug Fixes" as none of them are needed anymore
3. Extract ss2_v24.zip on your desktop.
4. Extract new_dark.zip and contrib.zip into your game folder

[67418be9da76aFironkkuify]

And upon this discovery came the inevitable spontaneous nerd-gasm of thousands of fanboys and fangirls. 

-w-

[67418be9da885Kolya]

Haha, indeed. That's one impressive patch. There's also thread in the SS2 board of TTLG about this now.

[67418be9dab27vurt]

Thief Series General Discussion (795 Viewing)

sounds a lot

Great patch(es)!! Got to convert my textures now
 

[67418be9dac1bRocketMan]

Speaking of which, I'm planning on responding re: space images I just haven't had time lately. Sry bout that.

[67418be9db398JDoran]

I've tested this a bit and come up with a preliminary install procedure:
1. Pull the shock folder from the CD (as advised in the SS2 tech FAQ)
2. Install SS2Tool v3.6 but uncheck "Bug Fixes" as none of them are needed anymore
3. Extract ss2_v24.zip on your desktop.
4. Extract new_dark.zip and contrib.zip into your game folder

Can we still run ADoB v30 with the new SS2 patch installed?

Also, if you update SS2MM for this patch, then please would you consider adding the following features:

1. Please add a second column in the mod list view windows, showing a letter(s), describing what type of mod each one is. I.e. 'F' for Fan Mission, 'B' for bug-fix, 'V' for Visual enhancement, 'A' for audio enhancement, 'G' for gameplay enhancement/changes, etc.

So that the mod window would look something like:

Anomalies, Discrepancies, and outright Bugs (Beta 0.3.0)     BG
Hi-Torque Medsci                                                              V
FM: The Minstrel (1.0) + spawn patch                                 F
Rebirth Beta 01 - Complemented Version                            V
Return to the UNN 1.0.1 (sky+spawn-patched)                   F
secmod_fix_for_tacticool_laser_pistol                                BV
shmup_1.1                                                                     A
SHTUP Beta 6                                                                  V
ArcaniacGraphicsPack Reduxed                                          V
ss2_christine_ponterbeestationv3                                     F

and add the options:


'Show all' (shows all mods, as it does by default), 'Show only fan missions' (shows only the mods with an 'F' in their mod type column), 'Show only bug-fixes', 'Show only visual enhancements', 'Show only audio enhancements', 'Show only game-play enhancements'

When 'Show all' is active, then clicking on the 'Name' bar would list all mods in their alphabetical order, and clicking on a letter (BGVA, or F) would list the mods with the first mods listed being the ones with that letter in their mod type, i.e. so clicking on 'F' would list the mods with 'F' in their mod type first, so the fan missions would all be listed first.

This might necessitate adding a database function into SS2MM so it knows what mods are what type(s), but given how few mods there are for SS2 I don't think it would be a problem?

2. Please could you make it so every fan mission has it's own save game slots? So that when you start SS2 (via SS2MM) with a fan mission, then the save game slots for that fan mission are present (i.e there could be a folder for each set of fan missions and one for vanilla SS2). This should probably be extended to gameplay modifications too, to prevent confusion and to stop people from trying to load a save game created in a different SS2 mod state.

[67418be9db945ToxicFrog]

TTLG members seem to have discovered this on a French forum and a few have tried it but most are just drooling over it and I'm at work so I can't take a deep dive to see how legit or useful it is.  The feature list is full of win but I'm not the most technically inclined so does anyone care to weigh in on what the significance of this package actually is and how we can use it, if at all? 

For players, the main significance is that installing T1/T2/SS2 just got a lot easier. Install base game, install patch, play. The cutscenes just work, widescreen just works, bloom and HDR just work, you can rebind the mousewheel, etc, etc. It runs a lot better, it looks and sounds a bit nicer, and it requires no effort to get working.

For art modders, builtin support for DDS textures and the like makes both creating and installing the mod a lot easier. It also supports DML patches for the missions and gamesys, which should make patches like Straylight's ADAOB patch easier to deploy, and also makes it feasible to have multiple gamesys and map mods that coexist peacefully with each other (without needing to be manually merged in ShockEd). I don't know if that was previously possible with the maps, but it definitely wasn't with the gamesys.

And for FM designers, it's christmas every day. The editor has been massively improved and a lot of built-in limits have been greatly relaxed. The Thief FM designers on TTLG are already talking about reviving old projects that had be scrapped because the Dark engine of the time couldn't handle them - either running unbearably slow, or just crashing outright.  Mappers are reporting factor-of-ten improvements in map compilation times, and the game loading maps that would previously have been impossible to play almost instantly and running them with buttery smoothness.

It's not just T2 DromEd that's gotten the upgrades, either - ShockEd has gotten the same upgrades. A lot of the issues that made making SS2 FMs a pain are just gone.

I suspect we won't start to see the true benefits of this patch until after the modders and mappers have had a while to sink their teeth into it, at which point we'll start seeing maps that would never have been possible in the old engine, and graphical overhauls that look better than ever.

[67418be9dbf9eMarvin]

For players, the main significance is that installing T1/T2/SS2 just got a lot easier. Install base game, install patch, play. The cutscenes just work, widescreen just works, bloom and HDR just work, you can rebind the mousewheel, etc, etc. It runs a lot better, it looks and sounds a bit nicer, and it requires no effort to get working.

I don't know what all the fuzz is about, the SS2Tool has done that for ages. Sure, this new patch does a lot cleaner job but on the surface it's pretty much the same. I think it's a bit unfair to all the contributors on this site and TTLG to pretend that Shock2 wasn't playable until this new patch came out (i.e. RPS).
 I guess the modders have to realize its new potential, first.


So, any news on the author? Has Arkane got any Irrational/LGS connections left? Most of those things shouldn't be possible without access to the source code.

[67418be9dc143Kolya]

Well for an instance the Broken Use/Shoot Mode Problem seems to have gone. And cutscenes play without a hitch for everyone apparently. And EAX should also be possible on Vista/7 without crooks like ALchemy. These were the 3 major problems that I've heard more than enough about. I think we'll have to rewrite a lot of the guides here.
But yeah, the main improvements seem to have made with the editor. Which is awesome, because that will mean more mods and FMs. Good times.

@JDoran: I'm not the author of SS2MM but of the SS2Tool.

[67418be9dc89eJDoran]

I don't know what all the fuzz is about, the SS2Tool has done that for ages. Sure, this new patch does a lot cleaner job but on the surface it's pretty much the same. I think it's a bit unfair to all the contributors on this site and TTLG to pretend that Shock2 wasn't playable until this new patch came out (i.e. RPS).
 I guess the modders have to realize its new potential, first.

I totally agree that people have done *fantastic* work on SS2, both altering/modding it, and making it playable on modern systems, but I don't think the release of this patch cheapens that in any way, except (as you say) for the sites who imply that before this patch the games were all but unplayable on non-period machines. I haven't yet tried this patch on SS2 or Thief 2 (first I was at work, then I had to go 'round a mate's new flat, to help him move his stuff in - always happened when there's something you want to do, never when you're bored  ) but from my quick glances on http://www.ttlg.com/forums/forum.php (where they mainly discuss the T2 patch, phiistines  ) it seems that the patch improves loading times, in-game speed, fixes some bugs, allows the mouse wheel to be defined as a control (wheel up, and wheel down, separately!), all of which, I imagine, will apply to SS2,so the patch does have some advantages even for players like us, whose SS2 installation is already fully Windows 7 compatible.

And judging by the way the Thief 2 modders are singing the praises of the patch's editor improvement, it seems like the editor can now support much more complex and details levels than ever before. And the fan made levels that approached the limits of the editor pre-patch, and ran slowly or unplayable in the game, now run perfectly in the (patched) game, so much so that people are talking about re-doing some of their old creations but adding the parts they were forced to miss out, or just building on pre-existing maps. Though no doubt some people will aim to push the new editor as much as possible, especially those who are starting brand new levels.

So, any news on the author? Has Arkane got any Irrational/LGS connections left? Most of those things shouldn't be possible without access to the source code.

)

The speculation is that he/she/they is one or more people who is actually an active member of the Thief and/or SS2 modding community, possibly a regular on http://www.ttlg.com/forums/forum.php (or this site, who knows?), who released this work anonymously in case there are any legal repercussions. It's a pity that (if true) the person feels like this, but if they want to remain anonymous then we have to respect that, so even if I was enough of a regular on SS2/T2 forums to speculate on which posters I think could make something of this quality, which I'm not, I wouldn't.

Apparently the source code of T2/SS2 was discovered a year or two back ( http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132035 ) and perhaps this mysterious person(s) got his hands on it, and reverse engineered it enough to deduce the necessary changes and bug fixes in the Windows versions of the games. Maybe, but it seems a bit of a stretch to me to jump from *possibly* working Dreamcast source code to the quality of the Windows patch we see here. Still, stranger things have happened, and whatever the origin, we have the working patch.

[67418be9dc9dcShocky]

One thing I always noticed with the DDFix method was FPS drops when there were steam effects around. Like in the intro, when you're crawling through that vent, just before falling down. With this new patch, that doesn't happen. Solid 60 FPS everywhere.

Having the menu in the same resolution as the game is also nice.

[67418be9dcad9FrozenLuffy]

Would someone be able to post a list of all the visual mods that are included in the demo? I'm having trouble figuring out which ones I should install.

[67418be9dcc4aRoenie]

This patch makes the game able to run 2560x1600. The max of ddfix is 2048x2048 (which in real world terms means 1920x1200 on my 30" screen). A huge improvement and it also fixed my EAX setting. Nice.

Note: i noticed that there are several .mis files in the archive. I chose *not* to extract those because they would overwrite the modded .mis files in my ss2 directory. If you install the entire patch you'll overwrite some of ADaoB, for example.

Edit: incorrect - they are not .mis files, they are .mis.dml files.

[67418be9dd0a2voodoo47]

Would someone be able to post a list of all the visual mods that are included in the demo? I'm having trouble figuring out which ones I should install.

if you mean the SS2 demo that has been provided with the new patches, I'm definitely seeing:
-SHTUP
-ADAOB (SHEMP textures)
-vurt's space
-Tacticool weapons

maybe more?

I've tested this a bit and come up with a preliminary install procedure:
1. Pull the shock folder from the CD (as advised in the SS2 tech FAQ)
2. Install SS2Tool v3.6 but uncheck "Bug Fixes" as none of them are needed anymore
3. Extract ss2_v24.zip on your desktop.
4. Extract new_dark.zip and contrib.zip into your game folder

this should be posted in the ss2tool topic as well.

[67418be9dd1a5Kolya]

It is now.

[67418be9dd575vurt]

3. Extract ss2_v24.zip into your game folder

...more specifically you should extract new_dark.zip from within ss2_v24.zip into your game folder.. most people already know, but in case someone new to all this reads

Speaking of which, I'm planning on responding re: space images I just haven't had time lately. Sry bout that.

no worries

[67418be9dd8bdMarvin]

Well for an instance the Broken Use/Shoot Mode Problem seems to have gone. And cutscenes play without a hitch for everyone apparently. And EAX should also be possible on Vista/7 without crooks like ALchemy. These were the 3 major problems that I've heard more than enough about. I think we'll have to rewrite a lot of the guides here.
But yeah, the main improvements seem to have made with the editor. Which is awesome, because that will mean more mods and FMs. Good times.

Yeah, working EAX and use/shoot mode are definitely big improvements, as is the new HUD scaling option. Never had any problem with the cutscenes though, even on Win7x64.

[67418be9dd9ecToxicFrog]

You didn't, I didn't, but I know a lot of people who did.

Also, with the crop_movies option, they now display properly on widescreen monitors.

And you can use the mousewheel to scroll through text in the MFDs! 

[67418be9ddc4cKolya]

...more specifically you should extract new_dark.zip from within ss2_v24.zip into your game folder.

Yeah, that's what I get for posting from work without looking at the files again. Thanks for the headsup.

[67418be9ddd3dvoodoo47]

..sooo, when we can expect the new version of ss2tool to pop up?