Character modelling questions

[67406b0b8d866Marcelo]

no, you have to change the model name in shocked, not the texture name.  The way it works is like this.  The texture is linked to the model:

Model <---> Texture

The model is linked to ShockED

ShockED <---> Model

You do all your texture work in your modelling program.  ShockED has no thing to do with that.  Once you're done, you either name your model the same as the original used in the game OR you make up your own name and then you have to go into ShockED and play around so the game finds it.

That's a bit of a roadblock to me. I've always had issues with the uv mapping thingy. I'm pretty good with editing stuff in Photoshop. I thought I could get away with assigning the texture and then editing the skin but it doesn't work that way. 

[67406b0b8dc0eRocketMan]

I don't know how to properly UV either but AFAIK, most modelling software has widgets to apply basic UV maps with different simple shapes like box, sphere, cylinder, etc.  For a game like this, the technology is kind of archaic to begin with, so I'm sure any minor distortions you introduce in your texture from a mediocre UV job won't stick out as much as they would in a newer game.

[67406b0b8df22Marcelo]

I don't know how to properly UV either but AFAIK, most modelling software has widgets to apply basic UV maps with different simple shapes like box, sphere, cylinder, etc.  For a game like this, the technology is kind of archaic to begin with, so I'm sure any minor distortions you introduce in your texture from a mediocre UV job won't stick out as much as they would in a newer game.

Could you please help me out with this Rocket? I'm getting a bit frustrated with the uv mapping thing, the models are ready and I tried to spotlight the texture with the vanilla skins but the models really need to be very high poly in order to work or else it looks terrible. I can send you the fem and male models to make one for each and then I can edit the image to create the rest of the textures for all the crew members. I reckon they are not the best models but they are definitely better and more detailed than the vanilla ones but keeping the 90's feel to it. I can also edit the texture to make some of them similar to the characters in game. PM if interested or anyone else with uv mapping skill.

[67406b0b8e03fRocketMan]

You may be disappointed to hear that I have zero texturing skills, as evidenced by my multiple previous posts stating it.  All my own work (texture-wise) is either scavenged from other people here or outsourced to freelancers.  Texture artists are something we desperately need more of IMO.

[67406b0b8e137Marcelo]

Hmm bad news indeed. I'll post the models here soon in case someone wants to continue producing the models. Maybe Guud might be interested in them perhaps?  Meanwhile I'll be checking some tutos and try it out myself.

[67406b0b8e2c2Kolya]

So where is the texture?

[67406b0b8e47bGuud]

I try not to do any texturing until I've moved on from modelling, and the modelling is still an ongoing process; there's no textures as of right now. Creating a full character texture sheet, going back and changing geometry, and then refitting the new geometry to the old texture mapping is more painful than it's worth. The biggest time sink right now is getting the models to “look right” within the old animations, and I'm just going to have to deal with it unless someone knows how to create new animations.

And to all the people here who say they can't texture, I highly recommend you look into it; as it really isn't that complicated and is also a mandatory skill for any modeller.

[67406b0b8e5d2Join2]

Keep up the brilliant work, GUUD!
And I agree with you on Rebirth, some characters are not true to the original style.

And some encouragement for Marcelo too. Keep at it man.

[67406b0b8e6ffRocketMan]

If, as you say, the animations themselves are causing the problem (which I can totally believe), I can tell you that there is a motion editor in the "ShockED Toolkit" called motedit.exe.  You can extract the motion you need from motions.crf, load it up in the editor and change the keyframes so the angles are different and look better.  Then you'd save the file and use the same override technique that all over mods in this forum use to replace the corresponding file in the crf.  I tried it once.. it's kind of tedious but not difficult.

[67406b0b8e80cMarcelo]

Guud is right. Applying texture to a different mesh is a nightmare. I've finished the male and it was really a lot of work and still it doesn't look much better than the original but at least the face is not a pancacke. I'll have the female ready in about a week. Please tell me there's just one female an male model needed to remake all the crew members. 

[67406b0b8ea5fvoodoo47]

nope. let me check what would be needed;
-female (should be universal enough to be used as corpse and living, if not, two models need to be made)
-male (again, universal enough to be used as corpse and living or else)
-male, wearing a cap (yet again, universal if possible)
-male, bald (Diego, Goggles, suicide ghost, and some more)
-male, head ripped off
-male head, ripped off

and lets not forget
-hybrids
-midwife


notes: when I was putting together the addons for Rebirth, I ended up using the standard male model for Diego, so his head looks a bit weird, as no bald model is available. the female corpse was universal enough to be used for living npcs as well (after Kolya gave it a texture makeover). also, Rebirth changes the gender of the headless corpse from male to female (improving the male/female ratio?). no hires ripped off head available, so that still uses the old model. couldn't get the suicide ghost looking decently, so that stays original as well. Goggles too, as his model needs to be made with the handheld weapon in mind.

the Dark way is always the hard way.

[67406b0b8ec71Marcelo]

I think I can do these ones:

Male
Female
Male cap
Male Bald

I already did the male with the texture and was able to implement one in game:
Image: http://i50.tinypic.com/2e1uq9y.png
but it was very hard to get it through the 3ds to bin program I keep getting this error:
Image: http://i46.tinypic.com/30shm5z.png

It's really not that hard for me to add more polygons to the original models or redo the skins or make new models and reskin them with the original textures  but my biggest issue comes with the 3ds to bin converter cause it seems it doesn't want to convert any models or I have to try several times to do so. Any help? 

[67406b0b8eda6Kolya]

First up, "3ds to bin.exe" is a frontend for several command line programs (to be found in 3ds/Workshop/). One of them used in this case is bsp.exe which is indeed very touchy by my own limited experience and by the accounts of many many others. Maybe you're lucky and Nameless Voice or Zygoptera come around here and can identify the error offhand, but more likely you'll have to google ttlg.com for some answers. And even then bsp.exe will remain a fickle bitch that seemingly accepts models by the moon phases.

[67406b0b8f244unn_atropos]

and lets not forget
-hybrids
-midwife

and girl hybrids

[67406b0b8f328voodoo47]

well yeah, Turnbull is a woman. wormbooobs!

[67406b0b8f479Kolya]

I wanted to add that a conversion from .3ds to .bin isn't direct. "3ds to bin.exe" will create an .e file as intermediary. If you have problems converting it might help in some cases to convert your .3ds first to .e and then to .bin. At least that worked for me in one case.

[67406b0b8f592Marcelo]

I've already tried to go step by step using the e file but it has the same effect. The funny thing is that my models are much less complicated than those in rebirth yet they wont work. I even converted the rebirth models back to 3ds and if I try to convert them to bins the program gives me the same error. Maybe someone who really knows how to deal with the 3ds to bin program might be able to help. I can make any mesh but I need someone to convert them to bin files.

[67406b0b8f6c8Kolya]

Try this updated (2009) version of "3ds to bin.exe": http://nameless.zanity.net/nv/files//tools/3ds2bin.zip
As it is only the frontend it will probably not help much, but try it anyway.
Also if you post the 3ds file I'll have a look at it.

[67406b0b8f7c0RocketMan]

Use a dos console and enter the commands manually.  That has worked for me in the past when using the frontend failed.

@Kolya

Where the hell did that come from?  I just dropped it in and it's newer than what I had.

[67406b0b8f8aeKolya]

Came from Nameless Voice of course.

[67406b0b8f9ecMarcelo]

Here's the male model for testing. Tell me what you think. 
http://rapidshare.com/files/617615125/Taquitos%20Models.rar

[67406b0b8fad3voodoo47]

"Download not available
Download permission denied by uploader."

[67406b0b8fbc3Marcelo]

Does it work now?:
http://rapidshare.com/files/617615125/Taquitos%20Models.rar

[67406b0b8fcf3voodoo47]

yes.

ok, had a look, and it's definitely work in progress - especially the lower half of the body needs a lot of work. but keep at it, as I said, a higher poly models that would stay true to the originals would be a welcomed addition to the SS2 modded resources database.

also, if you include textures, save them in the png format, gifs will have transparency issues (unless you set the palette, if memory serves).