SS2 Blaydes99 RttUNN

[67432365db7ddAurora]

The FM is unplayable in multiplayer co-op as you get spawned halfway through the ground and cannot move nor jump out.

[67432365db9d2voodoo47]

which level? the marker is probably off (a screenshot of the area should suffice if you don't know).

//nevermind, just checked them all, and it's right the first one on the Titus level. fixed and uploaded RC5. also fixed orientation of one more mp spawn while at it, and tweaked the damage on the disruption grenade (was way too weak in vanilla, but the fix imported from ADaoB/SCP made it one shot everything, so toned down the damage to what I believe is the optimal level - still strong, but the toughest AIs can now survive one or two blasts in the face, unless you upgrade the launcher).

new game required for the respawn marker fix, obviously.

[67432365dbb11Aurora]

Could you run through it in co-op with someone to ensure all the spawns are right and everything else works as well?

Edit: Everything also lags a lot worse now, we can only drop items onto the ground but not give directly to each other, and the AI keeps spawning at an insane rate at silly points. Not sure if it's the FM or the Tool update, as we haven't tested other FMs yet after applying it. Was this FM / the new SS2Tool update actually tested in multiplayer at all before release?

[67432365dbeaaZylonBane]

Was this FM / the new SS2Tool update actually tested in multiplayer at all before release?

Probably not. The usual attitude of the SS2 player base toward multiplayer is "fuck multiplayer". Irrational didn't even want to include multiplayer support in SS2. They were forced to by their publisher, and we probably got a somewhat worse game because of the resources they had to divert to it.

[67432365dbfdeAurora]

That's a shame because the game is a lot of fun in co-op. In fact, it's the main reason I still play SS2 besides the extra fan content. There is the occasional sync error on level loading that calls for a reconnect, but that hasn't ever bothered me nor anyone I've played with. With the most recent update it seems to have been broken completely however. Please test the multiplayer for the tool updates and FM updates, as there are people who play it.

[67432365dc358voodoo47]

I have checked all respawn markers and they are now set up properly as far as I can tell. can't fully test, because MP hates my network so much that I can't change levels at all, out of sync and goodbye.

the tool has nothing to do with the multiplayer, as mentioned before, it just updates and sets things up (to make it simple, it's the same exe as GOG or steam, so it literally cannot be better or worse). if you want to make your level(s) MP ready, you need to set the proper script up on the startmap so the players would sync on the first level change (and add proper respawn markers so the players will be able to respawn after death), and as long as you are both in the same game, all you can do is pray. any insanity (not present in SP) that follows is MPs fault - it always reminds me of ms outlook, as there is no limit to how weird, stupid and broken can things get (for example, empty grenade shell attaching to the player's crotch, I sh!t you not).

Everything also lags a lot worse now

worse vs what? I don't see any downloads on rc5 at the moment. also, worse performance/broken things after updating to rc5 is virtually impossible, as all rc5 does vs rc4 is 3 dml fixes that move markers. make sure both players are running rc5, restart the game, and hope it will work in a bearable way.

[67432365dcf5cAurora]

I have checked all respawn markers and they are now set up properly as far as I can tell. can't fully test, because MP hates my network so much that I can't change levels at all, out of sync and goodbye.

Thank you - I appreciate you checking through these. We're able to proceed with the game now, as we made it to the first regen station without dying.

the tool has nothing to do with the multiplayer, as mentioned before, it just updates and sets things up (to make it simple, it's the same exe as GOG or steam, so it literally cannot be better or worse).

Sorry, I should say whatever that gets updated by the tool. I am not sure if the game itself has received an update recently, or the mod manager, or something else that might cause this. A month ago it was all fine until after we ran the updates through the tool.

if you want to make your level(s) MP ready, you need to set the proper script up on the startmap so the players would sync on the first level change (and add proper respawn markers so the players will be able to respawn after death), and as long as you are both in the same game, all you can do is pray. any insanity (not present in SP) that follows is MPs fault - it always reminds me of ms outlook, as there is no limit to how weird, stupid and broken can things get (for example, empty grenade shell attaching to the player's crotch, I sh!t you not).

For the nearly four years I have played SS2 in co-op, the only insanity I experienced was the occasional crash or failure to load at bulkheads or rather level changes, which seems to be vastly reduced when everyone is holding a wrench or any other melee weapon. It is a tradition by now to always save before and after level changes, as then one can quickly rehost and try again. There has also been the thing with players warping around a bit because their positions don't always get synced. These I have considered acceptable flaws for such an old game, and due to the infrequency of level changes, it's not that much of an inconvenience honestly.

What's happening now however is completely new, first noticed in the last few weeks. I found that we in fact can give items to each other, but there is no notification message nor sound for this. It seems also that splitting nanites no longer lets you make batches of 5 or 20, but only 1 at a time. If I wanted to give my fellow player some nanites to hack a turret or upgrade my weapon, I would have to drag and drop the nanites into my inventory 20 times, for each attempt at a modification. That is a somewhat more severe problem. I will check today to confirm if this happens with other FMs as well.

Edit: forgot to mention the very frequent enemy spawning as well. I don't remember it happening before. I do remember someone else on this forum saying this began happening on Ponterbee as well.

worse vs what? I don't see any downloads on rc5 at the moment. also, worse performance/broken things after updating to rc5 is virtually impossible, as all rc5 does vs rc4 is 3 dml fixes that move markers. make sure both players are running rc5, restart the game, and hope it will work in a bearable way.

Sorry - when was RC5 released? I downloaded the other day.

Edit 2: Just to make it clear, I appreciate the time you spend trying to make and keep every fan mission functional, as well as adding the multiplayer support in the first place. I get bored of playing single-player easily, and it's the ability to experience the game together with friends in co-op that gets me back into it. That of course wouldn't be possible if there was nothing more to play in co-op, or nothing more to play at all for that matter.

[67432365dd0fdvoodoo47]

so basically RttUNN MP vs vanilla MP. I've got no idea what could be done about things like broken spawning or the weird nanite splits - if someone does, I'm all ears. all I can say is that things are set up properly and work ok in SP.

but making a list of all the weird won't make things worse, so lets see;
-spawning goes out of control (right away? after some time? after a reload?)
-nanites now split by 1 instead of 10
-no notification when giving items to the other player (just host to join, or vice versa, or both ways?)

anything else?

[67432365dd1fdAurora]

- Spawning is out of control with most respawn points it seems, from the beginning.
- No notification given either way between host and other player, nor between two other players.

[67432365dd3d8voodoo47]

hmm, maybe I know what's going on - the spawning is tough, because the FM is supposed to be tough, and basically, more AI's you slay, more will be spawned to replace them. witnessing spawns is probably because in MP, only one player is registered by the spawnpoints, so despite them being set as "don't spawn if player is nearby", the other player will witness spawns.

I think I'll tone down spawning one notch for the next release. pita because each tiny change to the ecology needs to be tested to death to see whether it makes things better or worse.


if you feel like giving it a testround, edit titus.mis.dml and change (for both players):

Code: [Select]

+ObjProp 1986 "Ecology"
{
"Period" 120.00
"Normal Min" 3
"Normal Max" 6
into

Code: [Select]

+ObjProp 1986 "Ecology"
{
"Period" 120.00
"Normal Min" 2
"Normal Max" 4
and start a new game. that will change spawns from 3min up to 6 into 2min up to 4.

[67432365dd535Aurora]

I'll test it later after we're through with out first run of the FM.

All the things we've noticed so far, though not sure if exclusive to the FM or something that has recently come up with the game or MP:
- no notification for receiving items from other players
- nanites split by 1 instead of 10
- the attack key gets randomly unbound for some reason, happened four times now
- the minimap doesn't appear, should mention my UI is scaled up for a higher resolution
- shift+O does not make a capital O, nothing happens instead
- the space station levels in RttUNN have a pink sky (is this intended?)

[67432365dd654ZylonBane]

You have a virus.

[67432365dd7cdvoodoo47]

- the FM has no minimaps
- no idea what shift+O is supposed to be doing
- yep, made Gallo dependent on SHTUP-ND unintentionally, so no sky without it. no idea how to fix this yet, in the meantime, make sure SHTUP-ND is loaded. //this is basically unsolvable, you simply can't have enhanced skies and NOT be dependent on SHTUP-ND at the same time, unless the skies are included in the FM as well - that's what I'll have to do, most likely.

about that mouse unbinding, make triple sure everybody has the latest NVscript (goes into the OSM folder).

[67432365dd8e0Aurora]

We have nothing enabled from the mod manager nor have we had before, and the issue of unbinding didn't happen. Everyone updated with SS2tool at the same time though.
The FM has overview maps when you view the map ingame. I suppose these were not made into working minimaps?

[67432365dda3bvoodoo47]

correct on the minimaps. you won't have the latest version of the script unless you have updated with the tool after 5th june, so you'll either have to re-run it in update mode or (as you need to update just one file), extract the script manually. whatever you do, you need to end up with the 5th june script in the OSM folder for all players.

also, as mentioned in the first post, having fixed objects enabled is almost mandatory, so load that as well in addition to SHTUP-ND (pretty much everything I fix/make/update is done with those two in mind, as there is no reason to work with unupdated resources if you don't have to).


//the nanite splitting is actually a value that needs to be set up in the gamesys, so it will be be fixed in the next update.

[67432365ddb60Aurora]

We updated around a week ago when we started so that was around the 15th.

Does the FM have to be restarted after enabling Fixed Objects and SHTUP-ND?

[67432365ddc77voodoo47]

do check whether the nvscript.osm file is dated 5th july june and let me know before I bring this to the author please.

fixed objects and SHTUP-ND can be enabled anytime.

[67432365dddbcAurora]

I assume you mean 5th of June anyway - I checked, and they are all last modified 4th of June 2016, 21:44. Each of us updated individually about a week ago though, so that's a bit strange.

Edit: ran update again and the file is still dated the same. I assume it's just a timezone thing.

Edit: btw. the tool assumes a network error when shock2.exe is renamed to something else (eg. ss2.exe, which I have to do to avoid Windows' permission shit).

[67432365ddeadvoodoo47]

yeah, that should be the file. I'll let NV know.

yes, the tool searches for shock2.exe, maybe I'll ask K to add support for ss2.exe as well.

[67432365de038voodoo47]

changed networks, so now I can finally play multiplayer (with myself).

-weird things are bound to happen. floating unpickable objects, for example. I can't do anything about random weird things, it's just how the multiplayer rolls.
-the ecologies are unreliable, and can screw up. relatively rare, but it did happen to me as well - if you get insane spawning rates, then you know it just happened. the only thing you can do is start a new game (or load a save right before the bulkhead) and hope it won't happen. looks like IG were aware of this, and that's why the original levels have dozens of small ecologies instead of one uber ecology - smaller the ecology is, less likely it is to break, it seems. will split the ecologies in the next RttUNN patch.
-confirming the no item receive notification. probably something in the gamesys, but no idea, so unless someone else chips in, I will have to investigate and that will take some time. anyway, shouldn't be too game breaking.

[67432365de3d3Kolya]

Edit: btw. the tool assumes a network error when shock2.exe is renamed to something else (eg. ss2.exe, which I have to do to avoid Windows' permission shit).

I'll look into this. Just a bit confused about the network error here. Actually it should simply not allow to continue (Next button grayed out) when it cannot find shock2.exe in the current or selected directory.
The network error may have been unrelated.

[67432365deb5cAurora]

changed networks, so now I can finally play multiplayer (with myself).
-weird things are bound to happen. floating unpickable objects, for example. I can't do anything about random weird things, it's just how the multiplayer rolls.

I've seen this perhaps half a dozen times over the years I've played.  Actually I've seen something similar in other games as well (Half-Life mods). It's very rare, but not really game/atmosphere breaking even when it does happen.

-the ecologies are unreliable, and can screw up. relatively rare, but it did happen to me as well - if you get insane spawning rates, then you know it just happened. the only thing you can do is start a new game (or load a save right before the bulkhead) and hope it won't happen. looks like IG were aware of this, and that's why the original levels have dozens of small ecologies instead of one uber ecology - smaller the ecology is, less likely it is to break, it seems. will split the ecologies in the next RttUNN patch.

Good to know this for when I work on my own FM.

-confirming the no item receive notification. probably something in the gamesys, but no idea, so unless someone else chips in, I will have to investigate and that will take some time. anyway, shouldn't be too game breaking.

Not too game breaking but you always have to mention in chat if you give items, and sometimes keep count to make sure nothing was lost.

[67432365dec82Aurora]

Update; not only is there no message text nor sound for receiving objects from other players, there is none for receiving anything, including logs, keycards, etc.

I think that makes this somewhat more severe as especially with three players, it becomes hard to keep track of things.

[67432365def65Kolya]

I'll look into this. Just a bit confused about the network error here. Actually it should simply not allow to continue (Next button grayed out) when it cannot find shock2.exe in the current or selected directory.
The network error may have been unrelated.

Having come back from my holidays I tested this. I renamed shock2.exe to ss2.exe and could not continue in SS2Tool on the screen where you're supposed to select the destination folder.
I did not encounter a network error. If you can reproduce this problem I would be grateful for specific instructions. Otherwise I'll count this as a fluke.