Some questions about editor

[67437cd259968StaticZ]

Hi, I'm just starting to work with editor, and have some questions that i can't solve myself.

1) What is command for open links window, i often need it and whant to make hotkey for this action. I see some commands like link_objs but i can't understand how their work and what exectly do.
2) Is it any way to show only brushes and objects which are "see at 3d" view window or hide all objects and brushes which aren't shown in top\right\front views. It's impposible to work wth such big number of objects, I knew that I can use areas but I'm looking for more easy solution.
3) How to select object in 3d view window, I can select there only brushes.
4) Is any hotkey to set focus for console window? And can i paste commands there?
5) How change step of shift\ctrl\alt + numpad hotkeys?
6) Can i change step of incriment X\Y\Z by pressing buttons near them. By default it's 0.01, i l be glad to make 0.5 or 0.25
7) I read that there are limits on poligons that can be shown in one time, but are any limits for number of brushes and objects on level? If I have planty of them (for example 20 levels like medsci1.mis on 1 level) will level work slower  or it will be same, just loading will be longer?
How to use SKY brush? it works fine on others level but when i make delete all textures it doesn't work. I don't see sky textures and way to load them. I read from some FAQ's for thief version that i need to use load_sky command, but what arhuments must be in SS2 ?
9) After i set starting marker i always teleports to it's location after loading level in editor. Is it possible to get last location after level loading?
10) What "Extras->show player" room do?
11) Is any ways to bind filters(brush, area, objects, etc) on kyes?
12) Where can i see full changelog history of editor?
13) I hear that there are some sources of SS2 does anybody know smth about this?


Thanks for your answers and help...

[67437cd25bc55MrTrip]

Hi, I'm just starting to work with editor, and have some questions that i can't solve myself.

1) What is command for open links window, i often need it and whant to make hotkey for this action. I see some commands like link_objs but i can't understand how their work and what exectly do.

This I don't know, sorry.

2) Is it any way to show only brushes and objects which are "see at 3d" view window or hide all objects and brushes which aren't shown in top\right\front views. It's impposible to work wth such big number of objects, I knew that I can use areas but I'm looking for more easy solution.

You want to use an Area brush. Draw an area brush around the area you are working on, and hit Me Only. When you are done, select the brush again and click Not Me Only. This helps clean up your view.

3) How to select object in 3d view window, I can select there only brushes.

I believe you can only select brushes in 3d view. I hope somebody can expand on this though as I'd love to be able to select objects...

4) Is any hotkey to set focus for console window? And can i paste commands there?

I don't know this either, sorry

5) How change step of shift\ctrl\alt + numpad hotkeys?

I don't quite understand this question? Are you trying to change keybindings?

6) Can i change step of incriment X\Y\Z by pressing buttons near them. By default it's 0.01, i l be glad to make 0.5 or 0.25

I try entering exact values into those boxes as much as possible, but I believe this is an option in one of the cfg files.

7) I read that there are limits on poligons that can be shown in one time, but are any limits for number of brushes and objects on level? If I have planty of them (for example 20 levels like medsci1.mis on 1 level) will level work slower  or it will be same, just loading will be longer?

The engine limitations have changed...slightly. I'd read the release notes for Dark 2.42, but, I'll quote them here

Increased brush limit from 7068 to 16384

I assume you are talking about brush limits, but I may be wrong. Read release_notes.txt in your docs folder in shock2 folder. It will explain everything. Also read modders_notes.txt

How to use SKY brush? it works fine on others level but when i make delete all textures it doesn't work. I don't see sky textures and way to load them. I read from some FAQ's for thief version that i need to use load_sky command, but what arhuments must be in SS2 ?

A quick search around the forums here may find your solution. I'll be honest, I have forgotten this one myself.

9) After i set starting marker i always teleports to it's location after loading level in editor. Is it possible to get last location after level loading?

Unfortunately, I don't think so? I see reference to this though in shocktut...

When you place the Starting Point, you will start the mission at this point every time you enter into the game. With the "editorcam_from_game" command, you can enter into the game at the same point you were at in DromEd.

But I don't think it is what you are looking for.

10) What "Extras->show player" room do?

Play with it and find out? =P I don't know honestly.

11) Is any ways to bind filters(brush, area, objects, etc) on kyes?

I don't know this either.

12) Where can i see full changelog history of editor?

changelog in docs folder.

13) I hear that there are some sources of SS2 does anybody know smth about this?

Parts of it were found on a dreamcast dev unit. I'd poke over at TTLG to see what that was all about though.



I'm sorry if I wasn't too helpful.

[67437cd25c3aeZygo]

1) What is command for open links window, i often need it and whant to make hotkey for this action. I see some commands like link_objs but i can't understand how their work and what exectly do.

They create links without the need to open the dialogue for it. I presume you've generated the command list to find that command in the first place (if not, it's "dump_cmds [filename.txt]" into the console, iirc) it has usage details- basically command from/to objids linktype. I think Zombe had some advanced automation options set up for links, might be worth doing a search for them if it's a major issue.

4) Is any hotkey to set focus for console window? And can i paste commands there?

:
Same as you would use a cheat in the main exec or a command in game mode, colon sets focus on the command/ console pane. If you want to change light for example ":toggle_lighting" should work either in game or edit modes.

5) How change step of shift\ctrl\alt + numpad hotkeys?

Changing the entries in Default.bnd is the only thing that might work.

6) Can i change step of incriment X\Y\Z by pressing buttons near them. By default it's 0.01, i l be glad to make 0.5 or 0.25

Don't think so- for objects it's necessary to have that precision or you end with stuff floating. For brushes you can use brushsnapping to get that effect by highlighting unsnapped then snapping the selection (menu items)

I can't remember exactly how to set up sky as I haven't done it for ages. You need to set the sky type in the mission parameters though (to the option which is 'not stars'), and use 'load_sky [sky family, eg 'sky', the other default option is 'acid', I think]'. If you then use the sky entry in the texture palette it ought to show properly. There are some new dark specific stuff as well, but I've never tried them.

9) After i set starting marker i always teleports to it's location after loading level in editor. Is it possible to get last location after level loading?

persistent_player_position.

11) Is any ways to bind filters(brush, area, objects, etc) on kyes?

Never tried it. There are some filter commands in the command list but I don't know what they do.

Note also: for console commands you can enter the first few letters and hit tab to autocomplete, eg :pers[tab] should autocomplete the command to lock start position to editor camera.

[67437cd25c97aNameless Voice]

persistent_player_position.

That makes game mode start from your editor camera.  The question was how to get the editor to go back to the location you were previously editing when reloading the mission.
The only way to do that is to move the starting point to the area that you want to work on.

Remember that the starting point isn't really that important in SS2 anyway, since the player will enter the map from teleport destination markers, not from the starting point.

[67437cd25d63eStaticZ]

Thanks for help, Thow most of questions still are without answer.

You want to use an Area brush. Draw an area brush around the area you are working on, and hit Me Only. When you are done, select the brush again and click Not Me Only. This helps clean up your view.

I know about areas. I was asking about way to automate hide far located objects.

They create links without the need to open the dialogue for it. I presume you've generated the command list to find that command in the first place (if not, it's "dump_cmds [filename.txt]" into the console, iirc) it has usage details- basically command from/to objids linktype. I think Zombe had some advanced automation options set up for links, might be worth doing a search for them if it's a major issue.

I couldn't find anythig for this there.

Changing the entries in Default.bnd is the only thing that might work.

How? I have simply this bindings:
edit bind keypad_plus+shift "brush_translate 5"
edit bind keypad_minus+shift "brush_translate 2"
edit bind keypad_down+shift "brush_translate 0"
edit bind keypad_left+shift "brush_translate 4"
edit bind keypad_right+shift "brush_translate 1"
edit bind keypad_up+shift "brush_translate 3"

I don't see anything related with step there.

[67437cd25d800StaticZ]

One more question, To add object to inventory i have to add link from marker to this object with flavor "Contains". Ordinal value of it describe location of object in inventory, where 0 - 29 are first 30 cells, and 30 - is armor slot. What ids are for weapon, implants and other's 15 cells?

[67437cd25dc5eZygo]

I couldn't find anythig for this there.

copied from his default.bnd

edit bind s+shift "link_group SwitchLink"
edit bind c+shift "link_group Contains"
edit bind p+shift "link_group AIPatrol"
edit bind x+shift "link_group SpawnPoint"
edit bind w+shift "link_group AIWatchObj"
edit bind o+shift "link_group @@"

It's not exactly what you're looking for as it won't (I think, didn't use his bindings) open the dialogue, but it will add common links via hotkey and remove much of the need to open the link dialogue. There may not be a command to open the link dialogue as from what I remember opening it without an object selected resulted in a crash, in old shock at least.

How? I have simply this bindings:

I don't see anything related with step there.

It's not something I've ever done, so I simply don't know if it's possible- if it is possible to change it would likely be found there though, or as a command that could be added there.

[67437cd25e061StaticZ]

copied from his default.bnd

edit bind s+shift "link_group SwitchLink"
edit bind c+shift "link_group Contains"
edit bind p+shift "link_group AIPatrol"
edit bind x+shift "link_group SpawnPoint"
edit bind w+shift "link_group AIWatchObj"
edit bind o+shift "link_group @@"

It's not exactly what you're looking for as it won't (I think, didn't use his bindings) open the dialogue, but it will add common links via hotkey and remove much of the need to open the link dialogue. There may not be a command to open the link dialogue as from what I remember opening it without an object selected resulted in a crash, in old shock at least.
It's not something I've ever done, so I simply don't know if it's possible- if it is possible to change it would likely be found there though, or as a command that could be added there.

Thanks, it's realy helpful and interesting I will try this, but now I examine original maps and how all work, so I had to open it very often to look what is there.

What about invetory does anybody know value for weapon slot?

[67437cd25e1f6Zygo]

1000, it seems

To check, if you have a standard save game available with a full or near full inventory you can load that in ShockEd. Use 'set game_mode_backup 0' to turn off backup mode, go into game mode, hit esc, load save game, go back to edit mode, use f3 'player', open link dialogue and you should see all the contains link data. 'set game_mode_backup 1' will turn backup mode back on, though it's probably safer to just shutdown shockEd wholesale.

It does give 1001 as the armour slot though, so that isn't consistent with what you found earlier.

[67437cd25e4eaStaticZ]

1000, it seems

To check, if you have a standard save game available with a full or near full inventory you can load that in ShockEd. Use 'set game_mode_backup 0' to turn off backup mode, go into game mode, hit esc, load save game, go back to edit mode, use f3 'player', open link dialogue and you should see all the contains link data. 'set game_mode_backup 1' will turn backup mode back on, though it's probably safer to just shutdown shockEd wholesale.

It does give 1001 as the armour slot though, so that isn't consistent with what you found earlier.

Great!!, big thanks for help.

[67437cd25e608StaticZ]

One more question - how to use complex brushes like solid->air, air->solid??? I can't understand for what they were created.

[67437cd25e933MrTrip]

This is all I found that mentions them at all...

Timing terrain creation - During Portalization, operation brushes are processed in a specific sequential order. Press Tab to cycle between all of the brushes in your level, and look at the lower-left corner of the editor to a field called "Time." Time starts at 0 and goes to the last brush in your level. Note that "fill" operations (such as "fill water") replace all other terrain within their brush dimensions. Therefore, if you make a neat statue out of "fill solid" brushes stacked like building blocks, then place a "fill air" brush such that it covers the whole statue, the statue will disappear when you portalize. This is because the "fill air" operation is processed later in time than the many "fill solid" operations that make up the statue. To fix it, you could move the "fill air" brush to earlier in time, before any of the "fill solid" brushes take place. You can do so by clicking in the time value box and typing in the new number, or pressing the "<" and ">" buttons next to it. If you are having trouble making the shapes of terrain that you want, pay attention to what sequential order the operation brushes are processed in. Lastly, note that the conversion brushes (such as "water->solid") do not necessarily effect all terrain within their brush dimensions

[67437cd25eacdStaticZ]

ok, as i understand if we place solid->water brush it will fill water only in part of brush which cross solid brush. Really it's rather hard for me even to imagine situatins except of solid->water, where such brushes can be usefull. Anyway it seems it's really work such way.


But what about purporse of "evaporate" and "blockable" brushes work? I have ideas that 1st is used to create  transparent "solid" blocks and second invisible "solid" blocks. But it doesn't work as I see.. Maybe some one know how to use them?

[67437cd25ec46Zygo]

IIRC Evaporate = water->air brush, reverse of flood or air-> water brush and blockable is used for 'meta' level design, setting up polys to work efficiently with the lighting engine and the like.

Flood is probably the most useful of the 'complex' brushes, for example in the flooded area of medsci2 you'd in theory only need one air->water brush to have a consistent water level and would not have to design the whole thing with lots of fill water brushes. But if you designed it as fully flooded you could also use an evaporate to get the same effect.

[67437cd25ef19StaticZ]

IIRC Evaporate = water->air brush, reverse of flood or air-> water brush and blockable is used for 'meta' level design, setting up polys to work efficiently with the lighting engine and the like.

Sory, I can't understand what you whant to say, why Evaporate brush is eauale to water->air brush???

[67437cd25f0e4StaticZ]

Uhh.. How to add character to level? I did as was written in manual and as it was on earth\medsci1 levels but all i get is this:

Image: http://s1.ipicture.ru/uploads/20130609/dT2bxSxK.png

the problem isn't only in icons, but in that trigers don't work at all - for example i can't open door, I even can't push button. If i delete start_point or\and player objects at original levels and add them myself all works fine. What I miss? I spend 3 days while trying find problem and whithout any result.... ((

[67437cd25f2d7Nameless Voice]

The various medium conversion brushes (water->solid, flood, evaporate, etc.) are really useful for making complex shapes with brushes.

An example might be if you wanted to make a spiral staircase in an octagonal tower of clear glass.
You want to make the steps out of brushes, but of course the tower walls need to be objects (since you can't make brushes transparent.)
You can try making a central pole with the steps as solid cubes sticking out of it, but you'll quickly notice that the ends of the steps make a circular shape, rather than the desired octagon.

So, you can make a fill water cylinder with 8 sides, the desired size of the staircase.
Then, you make your central column and stairs out of water->solid brushes.  Only the parts of the brush that are inside the water brush will become solid, effectively cutting off anything outside the water brush.
Finally, you place another cylinder over the first one, with evaporate, to turn the water back into air.

[67437cd25f5daNameless Voice]

the problem isn't only in icons, but in that trigers don't work at all - for example i can't open door, I even can't push button.

You forgot to load the script module.

Type the following into the console:

Code: [Select]

script_load allobjs.osm

[67437cd25fab3StaticZ]

Finally, you place another cylinder over the first one, with evaporate, to turn the water back into air.

So "evaporate" brush replace water to air? Than what difference with "water->air" brush? And what "blockable" brush do?

Type the following into the console:

Code: [Select]

script_load allobjs.osm

This works!! Thanks a lot.

[67437cd25fdb8Nameless Voice]

So "evaporate" brush replace water to air? Than what difference with "water->air" brush? And what "blockable" brush do?

There is no "water->air" brush.  It's called evaporate.

Blockable brushes are ...  complicated.  They force cell splits along their boundaries.  They can be used for optimising mission geometry when the built-in optimiser can't find the best way.  They're practically never used, though.

You can also use them to extend or reshape the area around a door which is "blocked" when the door is closed.  They're practically never used for that, either.

[67437cd260288StaticZ]

There is no "water->air" brush.  It's called evaporate.

I'm sorry, i mismatched this.

Blockable brushes are ...  complicated.  They force cell splits along their boundaries.  They can be used for optimising mission geometry when the built-in optimiser can't find the best way.  They're practically never used, though.

You can also use them to extend or reshape the area around a door which is "blocked" when the door is closed.  They're practically never used for that, either.

Thanks for good answear, it seems I begin become better understand how all this work =) And what about rooms and area brushes? As I understand area brushes are just for helping designer. I read that room brushes are used for sound engine, does they used for smth else?

[67437cd2603b2Nameless Voice]

Room brushes are used to shape sound.  They can also be used as triggers, to trigger events when the player (or some other thing) enters/leaves a room brush.

[67437cd26071bStaticZ]

You forgot to load the script module.

Do you know it loads before or after others files? I have an idea to make hook library for my mod which replace files, but I don't know is it good way to load it.


1) How add object descrition? I add "Sci Med Door" and when in game I'm looking on it I see text "A door". But when I add other door - "Rickenbacker Door", there was no any text. I look in properties and add "Obj->Object Name" value, then set it to "Sci_Med_Door_n206: "A door."". But nothing changed. I don't see any other properties that can do it, what I miss?
2) Some objects show names only when you look on some it's part. Can it be changed to always show names where target is over object?
3) Is it way to load custom *.str files? (It's useful for work and for user to use mod with others)

4) Is it way to use cmd shell commands in *.cmd? (cmd is similar to bat files, i tried bash commands but without any effect)

[67437cd260cd9Nameless Voice]

Do you know it loads before or after others files? I have an idea to make hook library for my mod which replace files, but I don't know is it good way to load it.

I do not understand the question you do me the honour to ask.

4) Is it way to use cmd shell commands in *.cmd? (cmd is similar to bat files, i tried bash commands but without any effect)

.cmd files is a misnomer.  They're just lists of DromEd commands, they are not valid batch files.  I probably should have picked a different extension when making the Toolkit