If you had a say in a System shock (1 or 2) remake

[67439c64de070NeilHoward17]

In the circle of friends I travel in, about 2/3 are gamers. and most of them either play console games or play more modern PC releases.
They know that I'm a hardcore PC gaming fan, and often look back for good content. Enter System shock series, Deus Ex, Vampire: The masquerade - Bloodlines. You get the idea.

But I find that even though these games are great, I do have to explain how one influenced the other, technical and production hindrances, and what could have been.

Now other than the question of 'what is the most annoying question or game element you find yourself defending?'

But my question is 'What would you do differently?'

In system shock 2, I'd want to create the original EVA mission from the Von Braun to the Rickenbacker. I'd put in some alternate endings;

1) A many alliance ending
2) A Cyborg ending
3) Easter egg monkey ending

SPOILER for Bioshock infinite!

4) An ending which ties in the SS2 parallels with Rapture and Columbia, which I bet Ken Levine wanted to do

Re-master cyberspace completely.

and some minor map alterations, giving continuity for the ships exterior (a pet love of mine when this attention is given), more quarters, more destruction. just... more. It's meant to be a pretty big damn space craft.

sorry for the long rant, but I'm interested in other peoples thoughts on this.

[67439c64de1b9slacker-in-denial]

No.




However a graphical remake and a gameplay remake of the last third of the game would be welcome.

[67439c64de2cbslacker-in-denial]

By the way, if anyone tried to tie in System Shock with the Bioshock canon, I presume they would be automatically awarded a place in the Many's rectum.

[67439c64de6b9Briareos H]

My dream is a visual overhaul of SS1, and a bit more. If I had unlimited resources, I'd love to make the initial heist with TriOptimum hacking and subsequent arrest of the hacker a playable introduction to the game. The purpose would be to cement the strong classical cyberpunk look of the game, introduce the game mechanics and give a foretaste of in-game hacking and cyberspace although much toned down, since the hacker doesn't have his neuro-interface yet.

I would also completely overhaul and extend the cyberspace itself into something that amounts to roughly a third of the game if the player so wishes -- yet remaining mostly optional for those who don't like it. In contrast to the general cyberpunk feel of the game, which is almost completely set in stone as far as I'm concerned, the cyberspace itself deserves a do-over. I feel like LGS made it look as futuristic as they could with the technology they had available without really caring for usual cyberpunk tropes (besides jargon like ICE nodes, etc.) We have much better technology now so if I made it, I'd want it to be much more dynamic and pretty. I'd have a complex set of interacting 2D and 3D interfaces with different layers of visualization (think about something similar to cyberspace scenes in Ghost In The Shell: Standalone Complex but with a more retro cyberpunk feel), beautiful and fun abstractions for barriers, firewalls, virii, antibodies, agents, attack routines and I/O ports.

I tell ya, the final battle against Shodan would be much more interesting and gratifying.

In addition to the revamped visuals and mechanics, the possibilities with regards to the game world would be much more vast, with remote access of cameras, bot and turret control, mapping of the station and other less important details (isolating sections of the station, managing O2 levels to allow further progression or biological growth regulation, turning on and off lights and detectors) while remaining mostly optional.

The normal user interface itself would get an overhaul too, but nothing too radical. I actually enjoyed the layout of the interface with inventory at the bottom, software functions on the sides, little MFDs for logs and info. I'd add some transparency, probably setting everything in a togglable/resizable/movable 2D grid layer similar to some elements in cyberspace, but the default view would certainly not be clean fullscreen like in SS2, which loses some of the charm of that interface.

I wouldn't resist adding a few hidden sections to Citadel. But the bulk of the layout, objectives, unfolding and story would be exactly the same.

[67439c64de8b4NeilHoward17]

I have to say I like the concept of a prologue mission in SS1. I'd like to see in, I've always toyed with the notion of turning Ken Levine's SS2 fan fiction into a short fan film. To the point of testing scripted scenes on people and some production design sketches.

I want to clarify that I love ss1 and 2 as they are. I'm just talking hypothetically and finding out what people would like to see.

On the note of the Bioshock cannon, well if you understand the Bioshock infinite ending, you realize that it wouldn't exactly be cannon anyway. Plus I only wanted to see an acknowledgment or easter egg. Not an entire plot device devoted to it. I feel that the narrative of ss2 is fine the way it is.

But I agree that the last third of the game needs an overhaul.

In system shock 1's case, and 2's I'd like some consequence for the modding out. Shodan says that "turn into her image", a nice point that although plays out in the players mind (which I'm all for, I like being asked questions and not being spoon-feed), but I'd like some ideas on how this would affect the game.

Like I said, this is all hypothetical. I think I'm just gathering peoples opinions on concepts and how they'd play out. Other than a graphical mod, I don't feel either game needs improvement.

[67439c64deac2Join2]

System Shock 1: More RPG elements & gameplay mechanics as a whole (including cyberspace), better engine obviously, restrictive save system, a couple more music tracks to replace the recycled ones.

System Shock 2: Re-balanced RPG elements and weapons/psi powers, better engine, new in-game intro (short tram ride with a futuristic/cyberpunk cityscape skybox), tougher SHODAN boss, better ending, longer BOTM & Where Am I? maps, semi-redesigned Rickenbacker maps, restrictive save system, QBR's that behave differently though the current system is ok as is, difficulty modes that do not scale number of cyber modules recieved (the one thing that prevents me from dropping hard & playing impossible, as I love building characters and I find hard gives the reasonable amount). Better weapon modding, increased simulation design and shock factor (no lame pun).

All that said, they are both more than enough as they are.

The main reasons Shock 2 would have more changes is:
A) I've played it more times so I know it fairly well and
B) Changing Shock 1 too much it would hurt the whole 1994 unique-ness of it all, though I suppose a new engine would do that anyway.

[67439c64dec8eicemann]

To me SS1 if remade shouldn't be changed one bit beyond the graphics. Well maybe improve the controls.

SS2 as people have mentioned would be great if it had the ending choices, have the body of the many made better, and have the Rickenbacker as a full ship to go through complete with new audio logs, tasks to do etc etc. Have more cyberspace sequences but with the style of SS1's cyberspace. In addition to that have cyberspace be a key import asset in unlocking doors, obtaining notes, emails etc etc.

Perhaps even have the Dojo level in there as a dream sequence or something. Oh and have each of the training choices be fully playable quick levels.

[67439c64dede9Kolya]

Yeah, the training years would be an excellent place to plug in some small fan missions.

[67439c64df131Tricky]

Yeah, the training years would be an excellent place to plug in some small fan missions.

Don't have to wait for a remake for that.   

[67439c64df2eavoodoo47]

the maintenance +1 would be really interesting - keep standing outside the office and look good and shiny.

[67439c64df62dicemann]

Yeah, the training years would be an excellent place to plug in some small fan missions.

I was thinking of just that when I did the post. Would make an awesome community project. Could have say a thread with a list of the training missions not yet turned into a short FM, and as each one is picked by someone have that one in the list with a line through it and name of the forum user who picked to take it on.

The catch is that they would need to be high quality if people were to even consider using that as a MUST HAVE mod alongside the others (rebirth, SHTUP etc). But it is of what's remaining that could be modded the easiest time wise one that the shock community could do. 1-3 months maximum (depending on the skill level of the mapper).

That said, besides MrTrip no one else is doing SS2 FMs anymore.

Either way I would LOVE to see that happen. Hell, it would get everyone playing SS2 again.

[67439c64df748Dizzy]

I would love to see a project for this!   

[67439c64dfbb8Tricky]

I was thinking of just that when I did the post. Would make an awesome community project. Could have say a thread with a list of the training missions not yet turned into a short FM, and as each one is picked by someone have that one in the list with a line through it and name of the forum user who picked to take it on.

The catch is that they would need to be high quality if people were to even consider using that as a MUST HAVE mod alongside the others (rebirth, SHTUP etc). But it is of what's remaining that could be modded the easiest time wise one that the shock community could do. 1-3 months maximum (depending on the skill level of the mapper).

That said, besides MrTrip no one else is doing SS2 FMs anymore.

Either way I would LOVE to see that happen. Hell, it would get everyone playing SS2 again.

I've done a bit of mapping here and there. If the training years FM's are kept short and if there is a general sort of outline made for *all* the training missions, I wouldn't mind chipping in a little.

[67439c64dfdb1icemann]

Hmm. Well that'd be relatively easy to work out. Just need to write/type down the text from each of the training texts, work out goals from that (simple) and of the skill points to allocate during them.

As a quick example, the first choice available for year 1:

Ships's Ops Mission:

Which after seeing we know that the player will receive +1 to hacking and +1 to Strength. And the text for the mission reads:

Which gives us the basic gist of the mission. Excuse the size of the images I just jumped into the game and took some quick snaps.

If the interest is there by enough people (let's say 3 minimum) then I could whip up a thread and do a little research + document the stats given + mission outlines. Wouldn't take long at all. The rest would be up to the mappers.

[67439c64dfee0Kolya]

You do that and we'll see how it goes. The good thing is that even if only one or two missions are made it will be a nice addition and can be extended later.

[67439c64e002avoodoo47]

the missions would have to be short, and action oriented, as you have virtually no skills, and the only thing you could do without that is to shoot things. most of the training years would probably be doable though.

what I'd like to see much more is an expanded Earth level - couple of streets, shops, and a museum or similar, packed with all the shock lore and trivia for all those who just love to read about that stuff (arguably, not many, but hey, we are all in this just for the lulz, right?). sort of an ingame wikipedia.

[67439c64e01e7Tricky]

I agree that they would have to be short, maybe 5 minutes each, but not necessarily action oriented. True, the player doesn't get his cyber HUD until he wakes up on the Von Braun, but shouldn't it be doable to just let the player flick some switches? Or control panels or whatever. Clearly the player has some control over the game world without the HUD, because you can pick up that basket ball just fine. All we need is some text feedback along the lines of "environmental shield restored" and maybe a few light effects to go along with it. You obviously don't hack the way and as advanced as you do later in the game, but you could still switch a computer on and have that be implied.

I'd like to see an expanded earth level too. Maybe the player has been jobless for awhile, maybe they got thrown out. I always thought it was kind of an important moment when you choose to give up your ordinary life and join up, it begs to be fleshed out more.

[67439c64e0607Olfred]

Well, it isn't said that a cyber interface is the only kind of HUD device available. It would make sense if there is something like a scouter or some other augmented reality device available which you just put on. So just go with a HUD in the trainig missions, otherwhise you proably end up with every mission being only slightly different and it just ends up being boring.
Just remember the training you have on earth, there you also just magically get a HUD

[67439c64e07aeJoin2]

I'd gladly make a ruthless platforming one if it can be fit in with any of the vanilla mission posting summaries.
One thing I really miss in modern shooters is ruthless platforming. It just doesn't exist anymore at all.

[67439c64e08f2Kolya]

You haven't played Alice - Madness Returns?  gameplay

[67439c64e0a71Join2]

Hmm, it's hard to judge if the platforming is ruthless by my standards, but it actually looks like an alright game. I'm not seeing any unnecessary hand holding so that's a plus.

That PewDiePie guy wasn't up to my standards though, he was rather irritating. 
1 Million + views? he must have some qualities that come clear over time.

[67439c64e0ca9JamesRossi]

If people start making missions, I'm a sound designer and have emulated the audio production of the logs before. Not hard by any means, but I can get them done fast and work well with voice actors.

Here's a few samples I made for a "Trouble in Terrorist Town" source engine map ages back for instance. I suckered a few of the server regulars to help me out, with varying levels of success in performance.
Image: http://tindeck.com/image/piic/stats.png (ME!)
Image: http://tindeck.com/image/jedc/stats.png
Image: http://tindeck.com/image/dofq/stats.png
Image: http://tindeck.com/image/klhh/stats.png

[67439c64e0df0icemann]

Later tonight I'll start up a thread for the training missions + do research etc.

[edit]
And here you go all done:
https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=5576

[67439c64e120fHikari]

the missions would have to be short, and action oriented, as you have virtually no skills, and the only thing you could do without that is to shoot things. most of the training years would probably be doable though.

what I'd like to see much more is an expanded Earth level - couple of streets, shops, and a museum or similar, packed with all the shock lore and trivia for all those who just love to read about that stuff (arguably, not many, but hey, we are all in this just for the lulz, right?). sort of an ingame wikipedia.

Dude. I would so love that.